Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 06:18     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you find it a "disgrace" that it turns out STA boys are largely like boys everywhere in the world in that they will make mistakes and be selfish and sometimes mean if they are not under direct adult supervision, or is it a "disgrace" that a once-great newspaper like the Washington Post is stooping to write an article about this incident just to make a guilt-by-association political point at the expense of stupid but not evil teenagers?

Way to keep your blinders on and perpetuate the “boys will be boys” get out of jail free pass. Boys grow into men who continue to act this way- just never around their own wives and neighbors.


NP here. It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word "boy" or "girl."

Both words refer to the juvenile of the species, i.e. those who are not yet mature -- in character, judgment, and physical growth. This does not excuse Brett Kavanauugh-like behavior. Sorry, but if boys don't know that's crossing a line, their parents have much to answer for. However, the idea that boys who do stupid things necessarily grow into men who do the same stupid things is idiotic.

I am an ardent feminist, and I find the idea that young boys can be smeared without proof disturbing. Why? Because young girls don't have perfect judgment either. Young girls can also have issues-- a need for control, anger at being rejected, a manipulative personality, etc. I think of a case at one of the HYPs where a young woman falsely accused a young man of rape, in retaliation for his breaking up with her. He was eventually able to clear his name, but during the period it took to complete an investigation, he was suspended academically and his reputation was ruined.

I think behavior that crosses the line absolutely happens and that the majority of the cases where it's reported, it's probably true. But, sorry, there are also cases when it's just not. I was once a girl. I knew some girls who did some seriously effed up, manipulative sh*t to the boys in their lives.

Then, there are cases like that of Aziz Ansari. I cringed through the Babe article. It was a horrible example of a woman saying that she was not responsible for communicating like an adult. Is it possible that unclear communication was at the root of at least some of the NCS girls' reports? I think so.

Again, this is not excusing the boys' behavior. It's saying that girls also have to take responsibility for asserting themselves if they are uncomfortable -- and for taking care of themselves and each other.

When I was in high school, my girlfriends and I had an unbreakable code when we went to parties: we watched out for each other and we never left a girl behind by herself. None of us were assaulted at any of the parties.


Where is the line between protecting the innocent and consequences for the guilty regardless of gender? And where is the responsibility for boys/men in this process and to making sure their friend isn’t putting themselves in a bad situation as well?
Anonymous
Post 10/11/2018 06:10     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The optics are terrible having a few STA/NCS moms so publicly lobbying, holding press conferences, and being featured in ads supporting Kavanaugh.


+1000


This makes STA more appealing to me, thank you for the information! There were just as many Beauvoir/STA mom's publically lobbying against Kavanaugh. Fair is fair, can't have one group be vocal and not the other. It's called freedom of expression. That's right, only the left is entitled to that. In any case, the Post article was a flop.


oh you poor ridiculous snowflake. No one is saying that those women don't have the right to advocate, they are just saying they're pieces of s**t for advocating for that particular position. Freedom of expression, right? No one has to like what you're saying.


Leftist condescension, we’ll done to you my little snowflake. You are mincing words. The sentiment was in fact that the sta moms should not ie they do not have the right to advocate for something you do not agree with. So yes you’d like to silence them. Only your opinion matter which I do not agree with but I won’t refer to your view point as a piece of s...t. You know because I believe in real tolerance.


You're the one whining about how silenced and powerless you are. Your problem is that you are so entitled that you think not only should the right have freedom of expression, which they clearly do because those women are out there speaking up for Kavanaugh, but that the rest of society should geneuflect to you for doing so. People have the right to speak up and everyone else has the right to say what they think about it. You want there to be no cost to you for your speech and your views, and that has nothing to do with freedom of expression or tolerance. That's just cowardice.


+1.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 22:21     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Do you find it a "disgrace" that it turns out STA boys are largely like boys everywhere in the world in that they will make mistakes and be selfish and sometimes mean if they are not under direct adult supervision, or is it a "disgrace" that a once-great newspaper like the Washington Post is stooping to write an article about this incident just to make a guilt-by-association political point at the expense of stupid but not evil teenagers?

Way to keep your blinders on and perpetuate the “boys will be boys” get out of jail free pass. Boys grow into men who continue to act this way- just never around their own wives and neighbors.


NP here. It seems that you don't understand the meaning of the word "boy" or "girl."

Both words refer to the juvenile of the species, i.e. those who are not yet mature -- in character, judgment, and physical growth. This does not excuse Brett Kavanauugh-like behavior. Sorry, but if boys don't know that's crossing a line, their parents have much to answer for. However, the idea that boys who do stupid things necessarily grow into men who do the same stupid things is idiotic.

I am an ardent feminist, and I find the idea that young boys can be smeared without proof disturbing. Why? Because young girls don't have perfect judgment either. Young girls can also have issues-- a need for control, anger at being rejected, a manipulative personality, etc. I think of a case at one of the HYPs where a young woman falsely accused a young man of rape, in retaliation for his breaking up with her. He was eventually able to clear his name, but during the period it took to complete an investigation, he was suspended academically and his reputation was ruined.

I think behavior that crosses the line absolutely happens and that the majority of the cases where it's reported, it's probably true. But, sorry, there are also cases when it's just not. I was once a girl. I knew some girls who did some seriously effed up, manipulative sh*t to the boys in their lives.

Then, there are cases like that of Aziz Ansari. I cringed through the Babe article. It was a horrible example of a woman saying that she was not responsible for communicating like an adult. Is it possible that unclear communication was at the root of at least some of the NCS girls' reports? I think so.

Again, this is not excusing the boys' behavior. It's saying that girls also have to take responsibility for asserting themselves if they are uncomfortable -- and for taking care of themselves and each other.

When I was in high school, my girlfriends and I had an unbreakable code when we went to parties: we watched out for each other and we never left a girl behind by herself. None of us were assaulted at any of the parties.
Anonymous
Post 10/10/2018 21:49     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:Do you find it a "disgrace" that it turns out STA boys are largely like boys everywhere in the world in that they will make mistakes and be selfish and sometimes mean if they are not under direct adult supervision, or is it a "disgrace" that a once-great newspaper like the Washington Post is stooping to write an article about this incident just to make a guilt-by-association political point at the expense of stupid but not evil teenagers?

Way to keep your blinders on and perpetuate the “boys will be boys” get out of jail free pass. Boys grow into men who continue to act this way- just never around their own wives and neighbors.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 18:52     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:One doesn't have to be "entitled" to think they should be able to choose one side over the other in a political debate without being publicly insulted for threatened.

That's not asking you to "geneuflect" to them, that's just asking for the mutual respect needed for our democracy to function.


Before you start demanding the left show you “respect”, fix your own house. Look at the language and rhetoric the right uses.

No one is threatening anyone here. They’re simply exercising their right of free expression to say that the fact that these women are supporting that man is reprehensible. Why aren’t you defending that?
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 18:39     Subject: Re:St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:Just so we're all working from the same set of facts, here are the letters that NCS and STA sent about this incident, which I think provide more context for what happened:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/12/22/two-private-schools-review-accounts-of-unwanted-sexual-advances/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0d0810ae4fa5


As a parent of younger children, I didn't follow this back in 2014, but in reading these two letters, I actually think the STA letter and the references it makes to action the school and its leaders were taking to combat some of the issues they learned about via the Google doc are much stronger than the NCS letter. My personal feeling is that it's bad optics for the yearbook faculty supervisor who mishandled the yearbook in 2015 to still be the faculty advisor now, but frankly as a parent of a boy and a girl, I am most concerned that the character education at the boys' school teaches the boys -- extremely explicitly -- that there is nothing manly about disrespecting girls or women.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 17:32     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
One doesn't have to be "entitled" to think they should be able to choose one side over the other in a political debate without being publicly insulted for threatened.

That's not asking you to "geneuflect" to them, that's just asking for the mutual respect needed for our democracy to function.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 16:13     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The optics are terrible having a few STA/NCS moms so publicly lobbying, holding press conferences, and being featured in ads supporting Kavanaugh.


+1000


This makes STA more appealing to me, thank you for the information! There were just as many Beauvoir/STA mom's publically lobbying against Kavanaugh. Fair is fair, can't have one group be vocal and not the other. It's called freedom of expression. That's right, only the left is entitled to that. In any case, the Post article was a flop.


oh you poor ridiculous snowflake. No one is saying that those women don't have the right to advocate, they are just saying they're pieces of s**t for advocating for that particular position. Freedom of expression, right? No one has to like what you're saying.


Leftist condescension, we’ll done to you my little snowflake. You are mincing words. The sentiment was in fact that the sta moms should not ie they do not have the right to advocate for something you do not agree with. So yes you’d like to silence them. Only your opinion matter which I do not agree with but I won’t refer to your view point as a piece of s...t. You know because I believe in real tolerance.


You're the one whining about how silenced and powerless you are. Your problem is that you are so entitled that you think not only should the right have freedom of expression, which they clearly do because those women are out there speaking up for Kavanaugh, but that the rest of society should geneuflect to you for doing so. People have the right to speak up and everyone else has the right to say what they think about it. You want there to be no cost to you for your speech and your views, and that has nothing to do with freedom of expression or tolerance. That's just cowardice.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 15:24     Subject: Re:St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, my b.s. comment is in reference to the suggestion that any girls at NCS are prohibited from speaking due to confidentiality agreements. As to the rest, all I will say is that as a parent with no connection or loyalty to her, I'm very comfortable that the HoS (and administration generally) is very supportive of girls at the school in these circumstances.



Now I know you are joking.

They shut down the Google doc. They lectured the girls for reporting incidents of assault and abuse. And when the HoS wrote a letter two weeks ago about how the girls should be supported, an open letter by NCS girls was posted on a student-run social media account calling her out for that hypocrisy. It cited the document and an incident in which multiple girls reported assaults by one STA boy who was allowed to graduate anyway (and was later suspended by his college for - you guessed it - sexual assault). They chided her for not believing the brave girls who have come forward before.

I don’t believe you actually have a daughter at NCS, especially not in the US. Or else your daughter doesn’t talk to you.

No, I'm not joking. Let's start with the NDA point... are you stating that there are girls at NCS who are barred from speaking pursuant to the terms of NDAs? If so, please provide evidence of that statement. As to the rest, is it really your position that girls were lectured because they reported assault allegations? C'mon. Even if I were to support your side, your characterization of what allegedly happened is unrealistic.


NDA? No - I did not bring up any NDAs. I said that that was clearly untrue.

As for the part about the girls getting lectured: sure, the boys were "talked to." But the sophomore girls who started the google doc DID get in trouble. My own daughter had to sit through a lecture about how the girls shouldn't have shared those stories publicly. That was just in 2015, so again - I don't think you are actually an US parent. For a parent to now say that they trust the administration would support the girls - when the girls themselves are expressing their skepticism - is silly. And I've seen the letters from the Heads. I saw the STA op-ed by three senior boys, too. So glad that people might FINALLY listen to the girls, but not holding my breath given the extensive history.


To be clear, my head is not in the sand. This is an issue that definitely concerns me (both on the Close, and elsewhere), and I can assure you I will hold the administration accountable (including the new HoS that joins next year) as a parent if these types issues are not addressed going forward to the extent they exist/arise.

With respect to the Google doc, there was a 20+ page thread on this in 2014, so I'm not going to rehash it. I actually think the doc raises serious issues about the culture that exists at STA, and my eyes are wide open about it. That being said, I don't think it was improper for the NCS admin to shut down that document down given that it could be edited anonymously by anyone, and that it had the effect of airing accusations in a public way and of invading the privacy of students (including victims who contributed believing it would not be shared). As I understood it, the document was started in the spirit of being a "safe space" for discussion, and got shared by some students with STA students. At that point, I think it became counterproductive. If there are students who feel that they raised issues that weren't sufficiently addressed by the administration (which is disappointing to hear), I hope they will persist in re-raising the issues. The email that was sent out 2 weeks ago made clear that the school wants to hear these stories, no matter how old.

In any event, we can agree to disagree on the current HoS (and I very well could be wrong). My own personal view is that the she takes these issues very seriously and is supportive of students, but what matters more is how the recently arrived Headmaster at STA and the incoming HoS at NCS take them. Time will tell, and I'm sure that these issues will be scrutinized. If I don't see action and accountability if/when future issues arise, I will not hesitate in changing my mind about the school and administration.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 15:03     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
I was also an US parent in both schools in 2015 and have a different recollection of the support the girls received. They did not get in trouble, just the opposite. I do remember hearing that there were conversations about appropriate and effective ways to marshal support. Your daughter may have interpreted that as being yelled at. Difficult to know if not in the room.


The google doc was taken down not because the girls weren't believed or the school was trying to CYA, but it reached the point of being unhelpful as it was taken over by unsubstantiated and unhelpful posts. Kind of similar to a thread being locked or removed.

Anyways that is my recollection of the situation from 4 years ago, but I am sorry if your daughter did not feel listened to or supportive. That is not a good feeling to have about your school.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 14:48     Subject: Re:St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, my b.s. comment is in reference to the suggestion that any girls at NCS are prohibited from speaking due to confidentiality agreements. As to the rest, all I will say is that as a parent with no connection or loyalty to her, I'm very comfortable that the HoS (and administration generally) is very supportive of girls at the school in these circumstances.



Now I know you are joking.

They shut down the Google doc. They lectured the girls for reporting incidents of assault and abuse. And when the HoS wrote a letter two weeks ago about how the girls should be supported, an open letter by NCS girls was posted on a student-run social media account calling her out for that hypocrisy. It cited the document and an incident in which multiple girls reported assaults by one STA boy who was allowed to graduate anyway (and was later suspended by his college for - you guessed it - sexual assault). They chided her for not believing the brave girls who have come forward before.

I don’t believe you actually have a daughter at NCS, especially not in the US. Or else your daughter doesn’t talk to you.

No, I'm not joking. Let's start with the NDA point... are you stating that there are girls at NCS who are barred from speaking pursuant to the terms of NDAs? If so, please provide evidence of that statement. As to the rest, is it really your position that girls were lectured because they reported assault allegations? C'mon. Even if I were to support your side, your characterization of what allegedly happened is unrealistic.


NDA? No - I did not bring up any NDAs. I said that that was clearly untrue.

As for the part about the girls getting lectured: sure, the boys were "talked to." But the sophomore girls who started the google doc DID get in trouble. My own daughter had to sit through a lecture about how the girls shouldn't have shared those stories publicly. That was just in 2015, so again - I don't think you are actually an US parent. For a parent to now say that they trust the administration would support the girls - when the girls themselves are expressing their skepticism - is silly. And I've seen the letters from the Heads. I saw the STA op-ed by three senior boys, too. So glad that people might FINALLY listen to the girls, but not holding my breath given the extensive history.

Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 14:41     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
You openly support "real tolerance"? You sound like a Nazi!
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 14:35     Subject: St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The optics are terrible having a few STA/NCS moms so publicly lobbying, holding press conferences, and being featured in ads supporting Kavanaugh.


+1000


This makes STA more appealing to me, thank you for the information! There were just as many Beauvoir/STA mom's publically lobbying against Kavanaugh. Fair is fair, can't have one group be vocal and not the other. It's called freedom of expression. That's right, only the left is entitled to that. In any case, the Post article was a flop.


oh you poor ridiculous snowflake. No one is saying that those women don't have the right to advocate, they are just saying they're pieces of s**t for advocating for that particular position. Freedom of expression, right? No one has to like what you're saying.


Leftist condescension, we’ll done to you my little snowflake. You are mincing words. The sentiment was in fact that the sta moms should not ie they do not have the right to advocate for something you do not agree with. So yes you’d like to silence them. Only your opinion matter which I do not agree with but I won’t refer to your view point as a piece of s...t. You know because I believe in real tolerance.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 13:38     Subject: Re:St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Just so we're all working from the same set of facts, here are the letters that NCS and STA sent about this incident, which I think provide more context for what happened:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/local/wp/2014/12/22/two-private-schools-review-accounts-of-unwanted-sexual-advances/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0d0810ae4fa5
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2018 13:22     Subject: Re:St Albans in the Washington Post ?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Yes, my b.s. comment is in reference to the suggestion that any girls at NCS are prohibited from speaking due to confidentiality agreements. As to the rest, all I will say is that as a parent with no connection or loyalty to her, I'm very comfortable that the HoS (and administration generally) is very supportive of girls at the school in these circumstances.



Now I know you are joking.

They shut down the Google doc. They lectured the girls for reporting incidents of assault and abuse. And when the HoS wrote a letter two weeks ago about how the girls should be supported, an open letter by NCS girls was posted on a student-run social media account calling her out for that hypocrisy. It cited the document and an incident in which multiple girls reported assaults by one STA boy who was allowed to graduate anyway (and was later suspended by his college for - you guessed it - sexual assault). They chided her for not believing the brave girls who have come forward before.

I don’t believe you actually have a daughter at NCS, especially not in the US. Or else your daughter doesn’t talk to you.

No, I'm not joking. Let's start with the NDA point... are you stating that there are girls at NCS who are barred from speaking pursuant to the terms of NDAs? If so, please provide evidence of that statement. As to the rest, is it really your position that girls were lectured because they reported assault allegations? C'mon. Even if I were to support your side, your characterization of what allegedly happened is unrealistic.