Anonymous wrote:I think your kid should play for at least a year. I'm not a hockey parent, but I have kids in several other high level sports and what does not ring true to me is that you are so blase about your kids abilities. I'm pretty certain that most athletes at the Ivy League were hoping and training to do just that -- for years.

I have an ivy athlete - my DC is still in his sport but it is not the be all. And he stared as HS sophomore.

Anonymous wrote:It's not a particularly ethical thing to do, but it's not forbidden or anything.

I don't think it is particularly ethical how colleges treat "scholar athletes" but, hey, that's the game they play.

I think your kid should play for at least a year. I'm not a hockey parent, but I have kids in several other high level sports and what does not ring true to me is that you are so blase about your kids abilities. I'm pretty certain that most athletes at the Ivy League were hoping and training to do just that -- for years.

Our new casually unethical low trust society in the USA. Thanks to third world invasion this is the new normal. Sad as hell.

This would be a very unethical thing for a kid to do, especially if he's highly recruited. The coach and assistant coaches put a lot of time into trying to shape the best team they can, and they are 100% going to be assuming that their top recruits plan to play and hopefully end up as cornerstones of the team--their jobs depend in part on how well their recruits perform. Other kids around the country will be choosing schools in part based on which players have already committed, with an expectation of what sort of team they expect to join. Everyone understands if a kid arrives and finds he can't balance the sports and academics, but a kid dropping sports in that circumstance is very different from one used the commitment as a scam to get into the college with no plan to help the team or coaches.

I also don't understand why there is any reason to think the kid won't be able to balance school and sports once he gets there if he's been able to do it so far. Ivy sports are not nearly as intense as most D1 sports, and as mentioned earlier, there will be good tutoring and other academic resources available to all the students at the school. Also, as others have said, a kid who took this sort of selfish approach to his commitment would make it much harder for other kids from his school or club team to get offers. He would be embarrassing the HS or club coach who vouched for him too. I would have a very low opinion of any kid who did this, and any parents who encouraged it. The fact that other unethical people game the system all the time has no bearing on the issue--they all suck too.

It's not gaming the system. The Ivies don't provide athletic scholarships and students are students first, not semi-pro athletes. It is really hard to be an excellent student and play sports. Many students drop out of sports in college, because of this and it is perfectly fine. Many others manage to do both and benefit from it.

Keep in mind that the AD and coaches at the schools and your DC's own high school coaches can tell if he has a passion for the sport and wants to keep competing. They will be loathe to use one of their slots with the admissions office for someone who hints at dropping the sport.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone games the system. Being athlete is one way if one does not have $$$ or legacy. Do u think the Harvard Z list kids feel guilty for taking a spot not based on their merits but those of their parents/grandparents?

Nice rationalization. First of all legacy is not as big a hook as people would like to think. Secondly it is not based on deception or anyone going to bat for you and planning on your being there.

Not mom/dad legacy but multi generational legacy. For those only 1 generation, legacy doesn’t matter unless u had whacked it out of the park...

Anonymous wrote:Everyone games the system. Being athlete is one way if one does not have $$$ or legacy. Do u think the Harvard Z list kids feel guilty for taking a spot not based on their merits but those of their parents/grandparents?

Nice rationalization. First of all legacy is not as big a hook as people would like to think. Secondly it is not based on deception or anyone going to bat for you and planning on your being there.

Everyone games the system. Being athlete is one way if one does not have $$$ or legacy. Do u think the Harvard Z list kids feel guilty for taking a spot not based on their merits but those of their parents/grandparents?

I knew people who did this at Yale. We thought they were jerks. Deciding to quit later is one thing, but going into it planning to quit is scummy. It’s like taking a paid maternity leave when you know you’re not going back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is a HS senior and highly recruited athlete with good, not great grade. He is being heavily recruited by a couple of Ivy schools. Son is good but not pro material. Our family can afford the tuition without assistance. Son realizes that it will be impossible for him to handle both academic and athletic at school because he is already having a hard time for the past two years.

He is thinking of accepting one of the Ivy offers and when he starts his freshman year there, just quit the team so that he can focus only on academic. Can he be kicked out of school for doing this?

How is he doing this? Most Ivies have very high requirements for SAT scores and grades for all students, including their recruited athletes, musicians, etc. I honestly think this is a troll post because frankly I don't see any of the cue words (that I'm not giving here) that would indicate this is a valid post. Name the sport and the Ivy for your supposed SENIOR son!!!

I think you are correct and I should have caught that.

I kind of thought it was a troll as well but intrigued to see the responses.

This shows u know very little of athletic recruiting at ivies. There is something called academic index. If u go to a HS and take the easiest classes, your GPA will be high and can meet min AI. U have athletes that are bench athletes that have high scores and those who meet minimal or just below AI. I know of Yale recruited athletes that were tutored in basic math over the summer before starting freshman year as their Math score of the SAT was around 600. I know of ice hockey recruits being offered spots at ivies if they could just get 1300 (out of the 2400 score). There is a lot going on that the average joe is not aware of.

I call BS. There is NO Ivy that would accept a 1300 total score out of 2400 for ice hockey … or football or basketball for that matter. And a 600 math score is still an acceptable score if the other score/s (depending on the SAT year for 1600 or 2400) are high enough.

I am not an average Joe. We currently have 3 recruited students attending Ivies so my wife and I are very well acquainted with the process.

You are correct that coaches and departments watch recruitment scores very carefully. Two of our kids were asked to retest in Jan/Feb I believe, in other words after acceptance , because even going from a 2180 to a 2200, as a real example, would give the team or department a boost on the index. It was NBD, our kids did it happily, and indeed their higher scores (by 20 or 35 points) resulted in benefits for their respective schools/teams/departments.

I do stipulate that the OP is trolling. I don't see any of the indicators in terminology showing legitimacy. I think it is some dodo (or their parent) who isn't multi-dimensional and has a grudge against scholar athletes, falsely believing that scholar athletes are the reason why they aren't getting into the school they want.

It is not BS. The example above is for NHL caliber kids. I have ivies recruited kids also and they attended a private that send over 25% just to ivies and most are due to being recruited. So we know the game very well.

What privates sends more than 25% of its class to just the seven Ivy schools?

You do know that there are 8 Ivies -- not 7 right?

Mea culpa. And I even went to an Ivy! Slip of the mind.

But I’m still curious what this school is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is a HS senior and highly recruited athlete with good, not great grade. He is being heavily recruited by a couple of Ivy schools. Son is good but not pro material. Our family can afford the tuition without assistance. Son realizes that it will be impossible for him to handle both academic and athletic at school because he is already having a hard time for the past two years.

He is thinking of accepting one of the Ivy offers and when he starts his freshman year there, just quit the team so that he can focus only on academic. Can he be kicked out of school for doing this?

How is he doing this? Most Ivies have very high requirements for SAT scores and grades for all students, including their recruited athletes, musicians, etc. I honestly think this is a troll post because frankly I don't see any of the cue words (that I'm not giving here) that would indicate this is a valid post. Name the sport and the Ivy for your supposed SENIOR son!!!

I think you are correct and I should have caught that.

I kind of thought it was a troll as well but intrigued to see the responses.

This shows u know very little of athletic recruiting at ivies. There is something called academic index. If u go to a HS and take the easiest classes, your GPA will be high and can meet min AI. U have athletes that are bench athletes that have high scores and those who meet minimal or just below AI. I know of Yale recruited athletes that were tutored in basic math over the summer before starting freshman year as their Math score of the SAT was around 600. I know of ice hockey recruits being offered spots at ivies if they could just get 1300 (out of the 2400 score). There is a lot going on that the average joe is not aware of.

I call BS. There is NO Ivy that would accept a 1300 total score out of 2400 for ice hockey … or football or basketball for that matter. And a 600 math score is still an acceptable score if the other score/s (depending on the SAT year for 1600 or 2400) are high enough.

I am not an average Joe. We currently have 3 recruited students attending Ivies so my wife and I are very well acquainted with the process.

You are correct that coaches and departments watch recruitment scores very carefully. Two of our kids were asked to retest in Jan/Feb I believe, in other words after acceptance , because even going from a 2180 to a 2200, as a real example, would give the team or department a boost on the index. It was NBD, our kids did it happily, and indeed their higher scores (by 20 or 35 points) resulted in benefits for their respective schools/teams/departments.

I do stipulate that the OP is trolling. I don't see any of the indicators in terminology showing legitimacy. I think it is some dodo (or their parent) who isn't multi-dimensional and has a grudge against scholar athletes, falsely believing that scholar athletes are the reason why they aren't getting into the school they want.

It is not BS. The example above is for NHL caliber kids. I have ivies recruited kids also and they attended a private that send over 25% just to ivies and most are due to being recruited. So we know the game very well.

What privates sends more than 25% of its class to just the seven Ivy schools?

You do know that there are 8 Ivies -- not 7 right?

I guess there are 8 if you insist on including Cornell...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Son is a HS senior and highly recruited athlete with good, not great grade. He is being heavily recruited by a couple of Ivy schools. Son is good but not pro material. Our family can afford the tuition without assistance. Son realizes that it will be impossible for him to handle both academic and athletic at school because he is already having a hard time for the past two years.

He is thinking of accepting one of the Ivy offers and when he starts his freshman year there, just quit the team so that he can focus only on academic. Can he be kicked out of school for doing this?

How is he doing this? Most Ivies have very high requirements for SAT scores and grades for all students, including their recruited athletes, musicians, etc. I honestly think this is a troll post because frankly I don't see any of the cue words (that I'm not giving here) that would indicate this is a valid post. Name the sport and the Ivy for your supposed SENIOR son!!!

I think you are correct and I should have caught that.

I kind of thought it was a troll as well but intrigued to see the responses.

This shows u know very little of athletic recruiting at ivies. There is something called academic index. If u go to a HS and take the easiest classes, your GPA will be high and can meet min AI. U have athletes that are bench athletes that have high scores and those who meet minimal or just below AI. I know of Yale recruited athletes that were tutored in basic math over the summer before starting freshman year as their Math score of the SAT was around 600. I know of ice hockey recruits being offered spots at ivies if they could just get 1300 (out of the 2400 score). There is a lot going on that the average joe is not aware of.

I call BS. There is NO Ivy that would accept a 1300 total score out of 2400 for ice hockey … or football or basketball for that matter. And a 600 math score is still an acceptable score if the other score/s (depending on the SAT year for 1600 or 2400) are high enough.

I am not an average Joe. We currently have 3 recruited students attending Ivies so my wife and I are very well acquainted with the process.

You are correct that coaches and departments watch recruitment scores very carefully. Two of our kids were asked to retest in Jan/Feb I believe, in other words after acceptance , because even going from a 2180 to a 2200, as a real example, would give the team or department a boost on the index. It was NBD, our kids did it happily, and indeed their higher scores (by 20 or 35 points) resulted in benefits for their respective schools/teams/departments.

I do stipulate that the OP is trolling. I don't see any of the indicators in terminology showing legitimacy. I think it is some dodo (or their parent) who isn't multi-dimensional and has a grudge against scholar athletes, falsely believing that scholar athletes are the reason why they aren't getting into the school they want.

It is not BS. The example above is for NHL caliber kids. I have ivies recruited kids also and they attended a private that send over 25% just to ivies and most are due to being recruited. So we know the game very well.

What privates sends more than 25% of its class to just the seven Ivy schools?

You do know that there are 8 Ivies -- not 7 right?

So OP- if your kid can get recruited at Ivy, go for it. Ignore the part that he wants to quit. This opportunity won’t come again.

"At a D1 school - depending how big the sport is, athletes have tutors assigned to them. Some big programs even have tutors travel with the team. Kids will be tutored in the bus. There is a lot of hand holding of these athletes.

This is not true at Ivies. It definitely is true at D1 schools, but not Ivies."

Which part is not true at Ivies?

I'll believe the specifics like tutoring on the bus are questionable.

I'll believe that other than the coach asking about grades a couple times each semester athletes aren't treated differently than other students.

But if you think there isn't hand holding at Ivies, if the student looks for it[i][u], you aren't very in touch.

My DC is at a school that has an endowment about 1% of Harvard's. They have more different types of office hours, tutoring and support classes that you get signed up for automatically depending on your placement grades in August, your first test grades the first week in October and your second test grades before Thanksgiving.

Freshman seminar meets weekly and includes some talk about keeping up and they schedule individual meeting with advisors a couple times per semester.

This all doesn't include the freshman dorm community meetings (with bakery level food bribes to ensure attendance) to keep things going smoothly.

Many schools understand that freshman retention numbers and graduation rates matter.

At HYP they know that if their rates drop, Columbia et al will close the ratings gap.