Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 13:45     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Ok I give up: UVA has been lying to US News for years. Nobody ever graduates from there and everybody transfers.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 13:43     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all sound like a bunch of Trump conspiracy theory lunatics. Schools are required to report data like retention rates to the federal government for various programs under penalty of law. US News and other rating organizations audit what’s reported to them through these reports. You can’t just make the stuff up. Why do you think schools report making mistakes? They know they’re going to get caught.

Sometimes I wonder about the level of education and sophistication on DCUM.


And yet, colleges submitting bad data to USNWR: Real News this week that 8 more colleges admitted to submitting incorrect data

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/08/27/eight-more-colleges-identified-submitting-incorrect-data-us-news

And that’s flat out wrong data. Not choosing to count students this day and not that day or encouraging apps from unqualified students to inflate data.

And, not all of the USNWR data is also collected by the federal government.




Even federal data is self-reported and there are different ways to calculate it. National Center for Education Statistics (IPEDS) is the usual source for resources and there is a lot of variation. Yale for instance has something like 2X the "Instruction" expenditure of Harvard and Princeton. Is that really true?
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 12:33     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all sound like a bunch of Trump conspiracy theory lunatics. Schools are required to report data like retention rates to the federal government for various programs under penalty of law. US News and other rating organizations audit what’s reported to them through these reports. You can’t just make the stuff up. Why do you think schools report making mistakes? They know they’re going to get caught.

Sometimes I wonder about the level of education and sophistication on DCUM.


And yet, colleges submitting bad data to USNWR: Real News this week that 8 more colleges admitted to submitting incorrect data

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2018/08/27/eight-more-colleges-identified-submitting-incorrect-data-us-news

And that’s flat out wrong data. Not choosing to count students this day and not that day or encouraging apps from unqualified students to inflate data.

And, not all of the USNWR data is also collected by the federal government.




Even federal data is self-reported and there are different ways to calculate it. National Center for Education Statistics (IPEDS) is the usual source for resources and there is a lot of variation. Yale for instance has something like 2X the "Instruction" expenditure of Harvard and Princeton. Is that really true?
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 10:07     Subject: Re:Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, troll, I'll bite.

First, a "smart" UVA student is redundant. They're all smart, or they wouldn't have gotten in.

Second, UVA has one of the highest first-year retention rates in the country: 97 percent, rivaling the Ivy League. So the overwhelming majority of UVA students do not transfer.

Having said that, I know of two students over the years who transferred to VCU for its superior fine arts program. There's a lot of pressure on top NOVA high school students to choose UVA or William and Mary simply because they can get it, when neither is necessarily the best school for their interests.


Well said. So many parents assume if your child gets into one of these schools, they *must* go there. It's ridiculous. There are so many great schools out there, many of which are a better fit.


So many NOVA parents are in the donut hole for financial aid. We can afford WM full pay. We can not afford a $75,000/ year LAC. And we will not qualify for merit. And many/ most higher ranked colleges don’t do merit. It would be great to be able to spend $600,000 over 6 years for kids educations. But as it is, WM will come out at close to $300,000. I’m glad we can afford that.

Cost is a reality for people in a high COL area who are looking at $34k a year for WM, or less for UVA vs $75k for an Ivy. And I do not want my kid to graduate with debt.

You live in a bubble. Yes. It’s because they can get in— and UMC parents can still afford them.


You're missing the point, completely, which is that there are other affordable in state schools that might be better fits even if their overall ranking isn't as high. Like forcing a kid to go to UVA instead of VCU even though the kid wants fine arts . . .
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 10:00     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:The poster who keeps insisting that UVA is lying or fudging freshman retention statistics should take a look at the latest to US news rankings. According to them, about five or six other flagship universities are also claiming a 97% first year retention rate. Not just University of Virginia. So, if UVA is lying, it’s not lying any more than anyone else or putting itself in an unfair advantage by doing so.


I was an RA at a great public U. Freshman used to go home all the time for social, academic, fit and money issues. If only 150 leave UVA, great, it’s just fishy without knowing details of how and when they calculate that number.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 09:31     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:The poster who keeps insisting that UVA is lying or fudging freshman retention statistics should take a look at the latest to US news rankings. According to them, about five or six other flagship universities are also claiming a 97% first year retention rate. Not just University of Virginia. So, if UVA is lying, it’s not lying any more than anyone else or putting itself in an unfair advantage by doing so.


It makes sense that small schools would have higher transfer rates. If you misjudge the “fit,” it’s probably harder to find a new niche at a small school. At a large school, it’s probably easier to move around and find a new place academically and socially.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 01:05     Subject: Re:Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Ok, troll, I'll bite.

First, a "smart" UVA student is redundant. They're all smart, or they wouldn't have gotten in.

Second, UVA has one of the highest first-year retention rates in the country: 97 percent, rivaling the Ivy League. So the overwhelming majority of UVA students do not transfer.

Having said that, I know of two students over the years who transferred to VCU for its superior fine arts program. There's a lot of pressure on top NOVA high school students to choose UVA or William and Mary simply because they can get it, when neither is necessarily the best school for their interests.


Well said. So many parents assume if your child gets into one of these schools, they *must* go there. It's ridiculous. There are so many great schools out there, many of which are a better fit.


So many NOVA parents are in the donut hole for financial aid. We can afford WM full pay. We can not afford a $75,000/ year LAC. And we will not qualify for merit. And many/ most higher ranked colleges don’t do merit. It would be great to be able to spend $600,000 over 6 years for kids educations. But as it is, WM will come out at close to $300,000. I’m glad we can afford that.

Cost is a reality for people in a high COL area who are looking at $34k a year for WM, or less for UVA vs $75k for an Ivy. And I do not want my kid to graduate with debt.

You live in a bubble. Yes. It’s because they can get in— and UMC parents can still afford them.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2018 00:20     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
The poster who keeps insisting that UVA is lying or fudging freshman retention statistics should take a look at the latest to US news rankings. According to them, about five or six other flagship universities are also claiming a 97% first year retention rate. Not just University of Virginia. So, if UVA is lying, it’s not lying any more than anyone else or putting itself in an unfair advantage by doing so.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 23:44     Subject: Re:Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who transferred from UVA to Brown after their first year. Their parents were both Ivy alums, though, so I assume that they didn't get in to an Ivy in the first go-around and were using UVA as a stepping stone to transfer into one.


This. I don't think the posters on this thread realize that transferring out often means transferring to a better school, not necessarily a lesser one.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 23:41     Subject: Re:Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:Ok, troll, I'll bite.

First, a "smart" UVA student is redundant. They're all smart, or they wouldn't have gotten in.

Second, UVA has one of the highest first-year retention rates in the country: 97 percent, rivaling the Ivy League. So the overwhelming majority of UVA students do not transfer.

Having said that, I know of two students over the years who transferred to VCU for its superior fine arts program. There's a lot of pressure on top NOVA high school students to choose UVA or William and Mary simply because they can get it, when neither is necessarily the best school for their interests.


Well said. So many parents assume if your child gets into one of these schools, they *must* go there. It's ridiculous. There are so many great schools out there, many of which are a better fit.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 23:22     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:It’s so evident that scores of people here think colleges are dishonest, but they still want their kid to go to them.

It’s fascinating.

OR deep down, you know the colleges aren’t lying and your reaction to the uncertainty of the admission process is making you post dumb stuff here out of frustration.


It must be great to live in a black or white, good or evil, world. With Trump. The rest of us see grey.

I think that colleges are businesses, despite being non-profits. And they stay in business by addressing the concerns of stakeholders, like alums and local corporations and faculty and students. And that one concern among stakeholders is public image, which helps determine the value of the degree. And that
a big part of public image in 2018 is your USNWR ranking. So colleges are under pressure to get their ranking up and keep it up. And again, I don’t think most do this by being outright dishonest. I think they do what they can to have the most favorable data possible. By changing business practices, like how they distribute merit money and whether they superscore or are test optional or charge an application fee to make sure the data looks good. And by using any wiggle room in the methodology. And I think if there are 2 or 3 or 10 ways to count a data point, say, counting does not formally withdraw by end of freshman year vs physically appears on campus sophomore year, they will use the one most favorable to them.

I also think Admissions is seperate from the educational side. And that you need to look at both parts when looking at a college. Will my kid get a great education? That’s the education side. Important for obvious reasons. And, will grad schools and future employers believe that my kid got a great education? That’s the Admissions side. Which means I actually want a college that is great at PR and keeps the USNWR number up. Because one day that will benefit my kid.


So
Yeah, it’s not good vs evil.

And UVA folks are weirdly touchy about this stuff. My alma mater is ranked within 3+/- of UVA consistently. And I got a great education and would love for my kids to go. But, I can recognize that they are putting their best foot forward in compiling numbers.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 23:07     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:unless someone can define EXACTLY what freshman retention means, I think a public U with a 97 98 99 % return rate smells a bit fishy. idk why UVA boosters hijacked this thread as if to imply NOBODY transfers out of the university. so weird


The school has a 94.6 percent graduation rate. You can't lie about that one. For that many to graduate you'd have to have something like a 97 percent first year retention rate.


Ok, a new data point. Please define exactly what retention means and exactly what grad rate means. Just an fyi, your logic is faulty, many colleges do NOT include kids who transfer out in that published graduation rate.

https://fafsa.ed.gov/help/fotw91n.htm
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 22:46     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:unless someone can define EXACTLY what freshman retention means, I think a public U with a 97 98 99 % return rate smells a bit fishy. idk why UVA boosters hijacked this thread as if to imply NOBODY transfers out of the university. so weird


The school has a 94.6 percent graduation rate. You can't lie about that one. For that many to graduate you'd have to have something like a 97 percent first year retention rate.


Ok, a new data point. Please define exactly what retention means and exactly what grad rate means. Just an fyi, your logic is faulty, many colleges do NOT include kids who transfer out in that published graduation rate.


The graduation rate is determined by looking at who entered and who finished. Very straightforward. You're just being contrarian.
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 22:28     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:UVA has a freshman retention rate of 97.0%, one of the highest in the nation. So no, not really common.


So that's 100-200 freshman per year? Where are they going?
Anonymous
Post 09/09/2018 22:27     Subject: Anyone know a smart student who transferred out of UVA? Why and to where?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:unless someone can define EXACTLY what freshman retention means, I think a public U with a 97 98 99 % return rate smells a bit fishy. idk why UVA boosters hijacked this thread as if to imply NOBODY transfers out of the university. so weird


The school has a 94.6 percent graduation rate. You can't lie about that one. For that many to graduate you'd have to have something like a 97 percent first year retention rate.


Ok, a new data point. Please define exactly what retention means and exactly what grad rate means. Just an fyi, your logic is faulty, many colleges do NOT include kids who transfer out in that published graduation rate.