Anonymous
09/03/2018 20:41
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:....I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
+1. I also have worked with hindreds of families grieving lost ones. I agree with PP and would just lime to add — there is no one way to mourn. Some people have rituals - elaborate or simple, daily or yearly. Some people cry. Some people don’t. Some people visit garves. Some people don’t even have graves or bodies. Some people want to remember, others want to forget.
The best, most supportive thing we can do is listen and allow people to do whatever they need to do without judging that they are mourning correctly or incorrectly or in a healthy or unhealthy way.
-1 I've also worked with hundreds of grieving families and I disagree that it is acceptable to stand by and ignore when someone is grieving in an unhealthy way. Where did you people do your training? SMH It is not unreasonable for OP to want to understand more about her DH's grief. It is not unreasonable for her to question his turning away from her and to another woman for comfort - for 17 years! This absolutely call for working with a skilled counselor.
he's not "turning to another woman." he's commemorating the death of their mutual child, together. the unhealthy thing is to be as insecure as OP.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 20:35
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
....I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
+1. I also have worked with hindreds of families grieving lost ones. I agree with PP and would just lime to add — there is no one way to mourn. Some people have rituals - elaborate or simple, daily or yearly. Some people cry. Some people don’t. Some people visit garves. Some people don’t even have graves or bodies. Some people want to remember, others want to forget.
The best, most supportive thing we can do is listen and allow people to do whatever they need to do without judging that they are mourning correctly or incorrectly or in a healthy or unhealthy way.
-1 I've also worked with hundreds of grieving families and I disagree that it is acceptable to stand by and ignore when someone is grieving in an unhealthy way. Where did you people do your training? SMH It is not unreasonable for OP to want to understand more about her DH's grief. It is not unreasonable for her to question his turning away from her and to another woman for comfort - for 17 years! This absolutely call for working with a skilled counselor.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:48
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.
I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.
Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?
I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.
....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.
I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
+1. I also have worked with hindreds of families grieving lost ones. I agree with PP and would just lime to add — there is no one way to mourn. Some people have rituals - elaborate or simple, daily or yearly. Some people cry. Some people don’t. Some people visit garves. Some people don’t even have graves or bodies. Some people want to remember, others want to forget.
The best, most supportive thing we can do is listen and allow people to do whatever they need to do without judging that they are mourning correctly or incorrectly or in a healthy or unhealthy way.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:24
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.
I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.
Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?
I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.
....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.
I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
I sincerely doubt your credentials. OPs DH is not going through a 'grieving process'. He's stuck in grief. And, his 'grief' is interfering with the relationship he has with his wife - who is also the mother of his living children. At the very least, these feelings should be explored in counseling - which you don't think is necessary. Appalling and shows a stunning lack of knowledge and experience.
his grief is only interfering because OP is a goulish, self-centered jerk. Maybe her DH could benefit from counseling. But in a healthy marriage, it's truly OK to have your own emotional experiences.
you remind me of my nasty, nasty stepmother who made my dad remove all pictures of my deceased mom from our house and insisted that commemorations of our mother be done jointly with her and her kids. Disgusting.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:20
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.
I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.
Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?
I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.
....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.
I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
I sincerely doubt your credentials. OPs DH is not going through a 'grieving process'. He's stuck in grief. And, his 'grief' is interfering with the relationship he has with his wife - who is also the mother of his living children. At the very least, these feelings should be explored in counseling - which you don't think is necessary. Appalling and shows a stunning lack of knowledge and experience.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:19
Subject: Excluded from mourning
This is his way of managing the loss and supporting the mother of his child in managing her loss, and the shared memory of the child and their loss. Grief is an intimate experience. It bonds. An emotional hug means nothing other than two people sharing an emotional moment.
On this day and with this loss, he doens't need your help. Why do you think there is something you could do to help? The best help would be to stay out of it and support him in grieving how he needs to.
He might be more likely to share it with you if he saw you weren't in it for your own selfish feelings. Your post is about you, your feelings, how you have decided you should be inserted into this aspect of his life and what you have decided he needs from you. None of that is going ot lead to him including you in his feelings.
On this day and with this loss, he doens't need your help. Why do you think there is something you could do to help? The best help would be to stay out of it and support him in grieving how he needs to.
He might be more likely to share it with you if he saw you weren't in it for your own selfish feelings. Your post is about you, your feelings, how you have decided you should be inserted into this aspect of his life and what you have decided he needs from you. None of that is going ot lead to him including you in his feelings.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:19
Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, grow up.
HER DH and his ex need to move on. His ex has a huge hold on OP's husband. Life is for the living, not living in what was or what might have been. I lost a child six weeks after birth and, yes, my DH and I died as well but we got intensive grief counselling and found a way forward. Yes, there is always a sadness and a hole in your heart but life goes on and the living must also go on.
I am sorry OP and I agree that you should also be included. I also think if your DH must visit gravesite, he goes with you, not ex.
No, that's not how this works. What does OP possibly have to gain by forcing herself into this? It's ONE day a year.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:19
Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, grow up.
HER DH and his ex need to move on. His ex has a huge hold on OP's husband. Life is for the living, not living in what was or what might have been. I lost a child six weeks after birth and, yes, my DH and I died as well but we got intensive grief counselling and found a way forward. Yes, there is always a sadness and a hole in your heart but life goes on and the living must also go on.
I am sorry OP and I agree that you should also be included. I also think if your DH must visit gravesite, he goes with you, not ex.
It is good that you and your husband were able to move on and find a way forward.
But.
This.
Is.
Not.
About.
You.
If meeting up once a year at a grave site works for these two people--who seem to have moved on otherwise (remarriage)--then that's good. That's not so crazy; marking this loss ONE DAY per year. It's not like there is contstant contact and weekly calls and sending cards and flowers and wearing black and on and on; it's connecting with the only other person who can truly understand one day a year.
Whatever they need to do to keep living is whatever they need to do to keep living.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 19:12
Subject: Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:OP, grow up.
HER DH and his ex need to move on. His ex has a huge hold on OP's husband. Life is for the living, not living in what was or what might have been. I lost a child six weeks after birth and, yes, my DH and I died as well but we got intensive grief counselling and found a way forward. Yes, there is always a sadness and a hole in your heart but life goes on and the living must also go on.
I am sorry OP and I agree that you should also be included. I also think if your DH must visit gravesite, he goes with you, not ex.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 18:35
Subject: Excluded from mourning
A friend of mine lost a child, few weeks after birth, twin survived. She barely went to hospital to see her baby. We were all appalled how could she do that. Shortly after, she became an alcoholic, to the point of constant rehab. So, people should not judge how other people deal/ not deal with grief.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 18:24
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
I just left that cemetery think "there's a huge monumental part of DH I won't ever get to know." When I lightly tip toe around the subject he always says the same thing "that day is over."
Is that something you'd really like to share with him? Really? Think good an hard about what you typed. You should be GRATEFUL that you don't share in that sorrow and stop being so unbelievably self-centered that you have to make their grief over their dead child ALL ABOUT YOU.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 18:24
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.
I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.
Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?
I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.
....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.
I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".
As someone who has lost a child and unfortunately has first hand knowledge of what it is like, I think some people do not want to move on because they feel guilty for being happy. Early on I gave myself permission to let go and enjoy my life. I had suffered enough and been through enough torment, happiness is what I deserved and letting my son rest in peace is what he deserved. I will never forget him, but I am here on Earth and he is not-- moving on was and is the only option.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 18:20
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A) Both the OP's father and his ex-wife need to go to counseling. Mourning a stillborn or newborn death like that for nearly 20 years isn't healthy.
B) OP - maybe if you had children with your 7-year spouse it'd be easier to move on.
Normally I wouldn't be on the jealous spouse's side but that is creepy as hell.
NP here, I lost an infant son 11 years ago and I agree with you. To each his own I guess, but this seems extreme.
OP said "after birth"; that doesn't necessarily mean a still birth. It could mean something like a sleeping parent rolled over on the baby, or a heart defect that led to a failed surgery. You don't have the details, and even if you did, grief is different for different people.
I'm sorry for your loss, but again, grief is unique to each individual, and it's not for you to judge.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 18:16
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:A) Both the OP's father and his ex-wife need to go to counseling. Mourning a stillborn or newborn death like that for nearly 20 years isn't healthy.
B) OP - maybe if you had children with your 7-year spouse it'd be easier to move on.
Normally I wouldn't be on the jealous spouse's side but that is creepy as hell.
NP here, I lost an infant son 11 years ago and I agree with you. To each his own I guess, but this seems extreme.
Anonymous
09/03/2018 17:49
Subject: Re:Excluded from mourning
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it very odd. Although we all grieve in our own way, after 17 years, I have to question why the need for an annual pilgrimage when you aren't local. I, unexpectedly, lost a baby shortly after birth. It was traumatic and devastating. I will never forget this child, her birthday or her death day. Whether I visit her grave or not makes no difference to her. My DD is gone. My resources are better directed to the living.
I have to wonder why your DH has this need. If he's truly grieving, he would benefit from counseling. Does he, somehow, have any responsibility for the DC's death? If it were my DH, I'd have a hard time not being resentful.
Maybe some people have more resources and time. How about they do what they want with their resources and time, and grieve in their way, without your questions or judgment?
I'm sorry for your loss, but you don't get to choose what is right for others.
....after 17 years it's time to move on. Besides, it's causing problems in OP's relationship. Past time to address it.
I work with grieving families every day. We spend a lot of time in Hospice talking about the grieving process and helping our families understand that there is no right way to grieve. For you to suggest that "it's time to move on" shows a stunning lack of empathy that actually makes me think you could be a sociopath. Please don't ever share your feelings on grief with someone who has suffered loss. Most people never, ever "get over it".