Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 20:54     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.


Off topic, but as mentioned on other threads, the strong Baltimore Celtic teams are a special case given the soccer culture that exists at Baltimore privates. There aren't many markets around here where so many kids will have that strong of an incentive to skip DA for school soccer. You can't really make many generalizations about girls' elite soccer at this point given how unsettled the scene is at the moment.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 19:56     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:We are discussing the relevance of CCL with ECNL, DA and EDP as options. EDP is a viable and better option now with the national league.


Also, when you say "better" what I think you mean is better for the highest performing players on the best teams. The majority of players on teams seeded into the lower divisions, usually below II, will be in the same boat as if their team were NCSL 1/2 or CCL or VPL (past, not sure about how it will go over next few years). But they will travel much less. Even though EDP regionalizes divisions, the travel spread is usually more than NCSL. Different parents will have different definitions of "better."
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 19:51     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:We are discussing the relevance of CCL with ECNL, DA and EDP as options. EDP is a viable and better option now with the national league.


That's not why the thread was started.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 19:49     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
We are discussing the relevance of CCL with ECNL, DA and EDP as options. EDP is a viable and better option now with the national league.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 19:12     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.


I think it comes down to averages. On average, there will be more from DA/ECNL than non-DA, EDP or otherwise.

Not sure why this thread is so EDP heavy when the title is CCL vs VPL: Make the case
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 18:57     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
I would argue that some of the top players on non-DA/ECNL teams are still signing with the top universities. You have players going to top DI programs from the Boys Baltimore Celtic team that won the national championship and FC Bordeaux. Bordeaux sent close to a dozen girls to DI programs. Both programs compare favorably to Bethesda Soccer which is in DA (Boys) and ECNL (Girls). The top teams in ECNL and DA will send girls to the top schools. Top teams at McLean and FCV will send players to UNC, Stanford and Duke but consider that UNC's top player is from Pipeline. I am not a booster for these clubs but just want to point out that the DA/ECNL will not always have the best players. There are strong players in EDP.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 18:11     Subject: CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:Just to clarify, the top half of most EDP DI age categories is no match for NCSL. In certain age groups, the top teams in NCSL left for EDP DII or higher. Also, in certain age group, U13-U14 girls, EDP DI OR EDP club vs club would wipe the bottom half of DA or ECNL. Where there is not a serious ECNL or DA option, these teams are where the talent olays. Don't underestimate these teams. They will always get placed in the top brackets of Jefferson Cup or Bethesda. Just my 2 cents.


I agree. EDP is the best non-DA option for high level boys and the third best option for high level girls behind DA and ECNL.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 16:15     Subject: CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:Just to clarify, the top half of most EDP DI age categories is no match for NCSL. In certain age groups, the top teams in NCSL left for EDP DII or higher. Also, in certain age group, U13-U14 girls, EDP DI OR EDP club vs club would wipe the bottom half of DA or ECNL. Where there is not a serious ECNL or DA option, these teams are where the talent olays. Don't underestimate these teams. They will always get placed in the top brackets of Jefferson Cup or Bethesda. Just my 2 cents.


Whatever makes you feel better about your choices.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 15:43     Subject: CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Just to clarify, the top half of most EDP DI age categories is no match for NCSL. In certain age groups, the top teams in NCSL left for EDP DII or higher. Also, in certain age group, U13-U14 girls, EDP DI OR EDP club vs club would wipe the bottom half of DA or ECNL. Where there is not a serious ECNL or DA option, these teams are where the talent olays. Don't underestimate these teams. They will always get placed in the top brackets of Jefferson Cup or Bethesda. Just my 2 cents.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 15:40     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems that there is at least one poster whose kid plays in CCL upthread. Anyone else? Or any NPL families? What would your reaction be if your club announced that for the coming season, CCL (or NPL) was folding, and that all teams below the DA or ECNL level (if applicable) would move to NCSL? Would it be any different if the club said all former CCL (or NPL) teams would henceforth play in EDP?


I would not give a a damn if the CCL was dismantled, and would surely welcome it if it meant less travel for a similar opposition. Our club choice is mainly dictated by location and decent coaching at the younger ages, and has nothing to do with its CCL affiliation.


My son is in an older CCL age group, plays high school soccer, played NCSL in younger years, is a very good player but does not have the talent or drive to want DA or playing beyond high school other than college intramurals or club. I could not care less what league his team is in as long as they keep the same coach (who is excellent) and he continues to play with the guys he's played with for years.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 15:35     Subject: CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your fascination closed vs open leagues. We were/are a CCL family, you need to give some examples of where you saw these lop sided scores, because I don't see it. My kid's team only beat one club badly, but most were +/- 2 pts. They don't publish the scores, just wins/losses so I'm calling bullshit on your claims. Are you a butt hurt NCSL coach?


If you are a CCL parent, you should know CCL does not publish scores. So it is a total BS on you part to demand a proof of lopsided scores, when the league does not publish results. You don't have to take my word for it. Talk to others, particularly to parents of CCL teams that went undefeated and finished at the top of the league and you will hear a different story. And, no, I am not a NCSL coach and my kids do not play in NCSL.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 15:22     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:It seems that there is at least one poster whose kid plays in CCL upthread. Anyone else? Or any NPL families? What would your reaction be if your club announced that for the coming season, CCL (or NPL) was folding, and that all teams below the DA or ECNL level (if applicable) would move to NCSL? Would it be any different if the club said all former CCL (or NPL) teams would henceforth play in EDP?


I would not give a a damn if the CCL was dismantled, and would surely welcome it if it meant less travel for a similar opposition. Our club choice is mainly dictated by location and decent coaching at the younger ages, and has nothing to do with its CCL affiliation.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 14:58     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:It seems that there is at least one poster whose kid plays in CCL upthread. Anyone else? Or any NPL families? What would your reaction be if your club announced that for the coming season, CCL (or NPL) was folding, and that all teams below the DA or ECNL level (if applicable) would move to NCSL? Would it be any different if the club said all former CCL (or NPL) teams would henceforth play in EDP?


We left a CCL Club 3 years back (not because of the league). But, we played the same 6-7 teams over and over again with only 1 of them presenting any challenge. Then, the team would get blown out in tournaments outside of CCL.

I always thought more competition and variety was found in NCSL. I now think EDP is the strongest league for boys next to DA currently-though NCSL is pretty damn close. And, some teams in EDP are competitive with DA teams.

I always knew somebody knew nothing about soccer when they started bragging about their 9-12 year old playing in CCL. Leagues mean nothing at that age. The goal for all leagues at those ages should be to keep playing teams close to home.

The flavor of the month regarding leagues changes every 3-4 years.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 14:56     Subject: CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:
Your fascination closed vs open leagues. We were/are a CCL family, you need to give some examples of where you saw these lop sided scores, because I don't see it. My kid's team only beat one club badly, but most were +/- 2 pts. They don't publish the scores, just wins/losses so I'm calling bullshit on your claims. Are you a butt hurt NCSL coach?


That is interesting (except the last part, which was unnecessary). Thanks for sharing. I am one of those who has the perception that there are many lopsided scores in CCL, and I know back when I paid more attention a few years ago there certainly were. The problem then was that some clubs (BRYC comes to mind) had very strong teams in some age groups but very, very weak teams in other age groups. Parents from the stronger clubs (at the time McLean, Arlington, Loudoun) used to complain that some weekends were a total waste - for both teams. If CCL has managed to rectify this somehow - and from your post I take it they have - then good for them. Do you think that's because of the changing mix of clubs in the CCL over time, overall strengthening of existing CCL clubs, the introduction of CCL II, some combination of factors, or something else?

At the youth level, pro/rel has its advantages but it also has its drawbacks. Generally, a pro/rel system will tend to produce more "like vs like" games. On the other hand, it also tends to increase the pressure on the coaches to win in the short term as opposed to doing what is best for the long term development of players. This has ramifications in terms of player selection and playing time for early vs late developers, but also can affect things like whether a coach plays a kid "out of position" in order to work on his weaknesses. A club v club league will not eliminate those pressure (they still publish standings, winning still matters - as it should), but it does reduce them considerably.
Anonymous
Post 08/29/2018 14:52     Subject: Re:CCL and Virginia NPL: Make the case
Anonymous wrote:It seems that there is at least one poster whose kid plays in CCL upthread. Anyone else? Or any NPL families? What would your reaction be if your club announced that for the coming season, CCL (or NPL) was folding, and that all teams below the DA or ECNL level (if applicable) would move to NCSL? Would it be any different if the club said all former CCL (or NPL) teams would henceforth play in EDP?


My child has played in both in the past few years. I'm fine with them moving to NCSL, as all the local clubs would as well. We wouldn't have to go to VA Beach, Richmond, Roanoke and Charlottesville anymore and I assume the divisions would place teams appropriately after a couple seasons. Sounds good to me. I don't know that much about the EDP, but we are considering trying out for DA next year, not sure if we would make it or not, and not sure we want to give up Varsity HS option.