Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

Why do people always bring race into conversations? Tsk tsk race baiters. What the poster is saying is that personal accountability starts with self, no government agency or schoo district can close a gap that starts with people. People —-Black, White, Brown & Asian must make a personal choice to be married before having children (the way it’s designed to be), saving money and being self-employed or in stable employment. Whiteness does not guarantee financial stability ——> see: West Virginia, Maine and other states. Instead of extending the school year we need to get to the root of the problem. Sex education in communities where people think it’s okay to have multiple children by multiple men and men think it’s okay to have multiple children all over. There should be a tax incentive to help flip childhood poverty, I.e. getting married before children, being financially stable,etc. The tax incentive could work for those who are poor, working and lower middle class. This is where the county should start because it hits the root of the problem. Schools shouldn’t be surrogate parents.

Look at the folks on this board: marriage doesn’t guarantee financial stability or two involved parents. Unless you want to require a licensing procedure to have a biological child and then remove kids immediately if a marriage doesn’t work out, there will always be parents who need extra help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes- personal accountability. Don't have kids out of wedlock. Go to college (there's plenty of aid available for poor students). Don't go to jail. Let's start there. I'm aware of the achievement gap. I guarantee you though that the kids on the lower achievement scale are growing up in households where their parents or parent is in one of those 3 predicaments above (had kid out of wedlock, didn't go to college, one parent is in jail).

People Should Behave Like I Think They Should is not a policy, it's a desire. (A desire very commonly expressed on DCUM.) What policies do you support?

Also, what should kids do who were unfortunate enough to be born to unmarried parents who didn't go to college and/or did go to jail?

Do you think that the schools can come up with an overarching solution that will close the achievement gap entirely? The solution starts at HOME. How does that get implemented or fixed is the biggest question but to think that it's the responsibility of the schools to fix it is naive thinking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

As I said, there's only so much that the schools can do. I think no one can argue that MCPS is already doing a lot to compensate for the lack of whats happening at home; but to expect that we continue to throw more and more resources on top of what's already being done to completely close the gap is foolish. People need to stop being dillusional, thinking that the solution is solely on the schools to come up with. Your assertion that one can only be rich and white to care about a child's education is effed up by the way. I'm a minority middle class parent who have children in a FOCUS school. Lots of parents; not just white or rich, care about their children's education. The point I'm making is that caring about your child's education is something that personally anyone regardless of your SES or ethnicity CAN do.

OK. Is there something that not-schools can do, and if so, what?

The achievement gap is between kids from wealthy families and kids from poor families, and between kids from white and Asian families and kids from black and Hispanic families. That doesn't say that black, Hispanic, and poor parents don't care about their kids' education. That says that, as a group, test scores for kids from poor, black, and Hispanic families are lower. So, why? You say that it's not because poor, black, and Hispanic parents don't care about their kids' education, and I agree with you on that.

I think a lot of it is cultural and what people are familiar with from their own childhoods. If their parents didn't talk to them using rich language or read aloud to them as part of a routine then they won't be inclined to do so for their own children. This is painting with a broad brush and of course it's not true of everyone of certain races or ethnicities, of course. It also has a lot to do with SES. If you're living in poverty your priorities are going to be different than those of a middle or UMC family. If you're worried about keeping food on the table and a roof over your heads, reading to your kids may not be what you choose to do when you have a spare 20 minutes. Again, not for everyone, but for enough.

Some of the hardest working students I've had come here from countries in Africa. They may be living at or below the poverty level when they first arrive and for some years after, but the parents instill the idea in their kids that education is the first priority. The parents continue their schooling here in order to get better jobs and the kids see them setting that example. They are reluctant to sign up for FARMS or to accept donations or gifts. On the flipside, there are families of all races and ethnicities who have not come from other countries and live at or below the poverty line but keep perpetuating the cycle. These are the families who value things like iPhones, X boxes and luxury cars even though having those things means not being able to afford needs and they are fine with others subsidizing their needs so they can pay for their wants. They're used to those things and feel like they deserve them, and will work to get them because that's what they prioritize. Reading and the like aren't seen as "cool" by their parents, so the kids don't see it as "cool" either.

Again, painting with a broad brush...

Anonymous wrote:

Yes- personal accountability. Don't have kids out of wedlock. Go to college (there's plenty of aid available for poor students). Don't go to jail. Let's start there. I'm aware of the achievement gap. I guarantee you though that the kids on the lower achievement scale are growing up in households where their parents or parent is in one of those 3 predicaments above (had kid out of wedlock, didn't go to college, one parent is in jail).

People Should Behave Like I Think They Should is not a policy, it's a desire. (A desire very commonly expressed on DCUM.) What policies do you support?

Also, what should kids do who were unfortunate enough to be born to unmarried parents who didn't go to college and/or did go to jail?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

As I said, there's only so much that the schools can do. I think no one can argue that MCPS is already doing a lot to compensate for the lack of whats happening at home; but to expect that we continue to throw more and more resources on top of what's already being done to completely close the gap is foolish. People need to stop being dillusional, thinking that the solution is solely on the schools to come up with. Your assertion that one can only be rich and white to care about a child's education is effed up by the way. I'm a minority middle class parent who have children in a FOCUS school. Lots of parents; not just white or rich, care about their children's education. The point I'm making is that caring about your child's education is something that personally anyone regardless of your SES or ethnicity CAN do.

OK. Is there something that not-schools can do, and if so, what?

The achievement gap is between kids from wealthy families and kids from poor families, and between kids from white and Asian families and kids from black and Hispanic families. That doesn't say that black, Hispanic, and poor parents don't care about their kids' education. That says that, as a group, test scores for kids from poor, black, and Hispanic families are lower. So, why? You say that it's not because poor, black, and Hispanic parents don't care about their kids' education, and I agree with you on that.

Yes- personal accountability. Don't have kids out of wedlock. Go to college (there's plenty of aid available for poor students). Don't go to jail. Let's start there. I'm aware of the achievement gap. I guarantee you though that the kids on the lower achievement scale are growing up in households where their parents or parent is in one of those 3 predicaments above (had kid out of wedlock, didn't go to college, one parent is in jail).

Anonymous wrote:
Why do people always bring race into conversations? Tsk tsk race baiters. What the poster is saying is that personal accountability starts with self, no government agency or schoo district can close a gap that starts with people. People —-Black, White, Brown & Asian must make a personal choice to be married before having children (the way it’s designed to be), saving money and being self-employed or in stable employment. Whiteness does not guarantee financial stability ——> see: West Virginia, Maine and other states. Instead of extending the school year we need to get to the root of the problem. Sex education in communities where people think it’s okay to have multiple children by multiple men and men think it’s okay to have multiple children all over. There should be a tax incentive to help flip childhood poverty, I.e. getting married before children, being financially stable,etc. The tax incentive could work for those who are poor, working and lower middle class. This is where the county should start because it hits the root of the problem. Schools shouldn’t be surrogate parents.

The topic of this thread is the achievement gap, which in MCPS is between kids from families classified as white or Asian and kids from classified as black or Hispanic. How would you talk about the achievement gap without including race in the discussion? It's as though we were talking about the differences between Finnish and Senegalese cuisine, and somebody said, "Why do people always bring climate into conversations? Tsk tsk climate baiters."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

As I said, there's only so much that the schools can do. I think no one can argue that MCPS is already doing a lot to compensate for the lack of whats happening at home; but to expect that we continue to throw more and more resources on top of what's already being done to completely close the gap is foolish. People need to stop being dillusional, thinking that the solution is solely on the schools to come up with. Your assertion that one can only be rich and white to care about a child's education is effed up by the way. I'm a minority middle class parent who have children in a FOCUS school. Lots of parents; not just white or rich, care about their children's education. The point I'm making is that caring about your child's education is something that personally anyone regardless of your SES or ethnicity CAN do.

OK. Is there something that not-schools can do, and if so, what?

The achievement gap is between kids from wealthy families and kids from poor families, and between kids from white and Asian families and kids from black and Hispanic families. That doesn't say that black, Hispanic, and poor parents don't care about their kids' education. That says that, as a group, test scores for kids from poor, black, and Hispanic families are lower. So, why? You say that it's not because poor, black, and Hispanic parents don't care about their kids' education, and I agree with you on that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

Why do people always bring race into conversations? Tsk tsk race baiters. What the poster is saying is that personal accountability starts with self, no government agency or schoo district can close a gap that starts with people. People —-Black, White, Brown & Asian must make a personal choice to be married before having children (the way it’s designed to be), saving money and being self-employed or in stable employment. Whiteness does not guarantee financial stability ——> see: West Virginia, Maine and other states. Instead of extending the school year we need to get to the root of the problem. Sex education in communities where people think it’s okay to have multiple children by multiple men and men think it’s okay to have multiple children all over. There should be a tax incentive to help flip childhood poverty, I.e. getting married before children, being financially stable,etc. The tax incentive could work for those who are poor, working and lower middle class. This is where the county should start because it hits the root of the problem. Schools shouldn’t be surrogate parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

As I said, there's only so much that the schools can do. I think no one can argue that MCPS is already doing a lot to compensate for the lack of whats happening at home; but to expect that we continue to throw more and more resources on top of what's already being done to completely close the gap is foolish. People need to stop being dillusional, thinking that the solution is solely on the schools to come up with. Your assertion that one can only be rich and white to care about a child's education is effed up by the way. I'm a minority middle class parent who have children in a FOCUS school. Lots of parents; not just white or rich, care about their children's education. The point I'm making is that caring about your child's education is something that personally anyone regardless of your SES or ethnicity CAN do.

Anonymous wrote:

Plus a million. At what point will we realize that what happens at home is the biggest predictor of success. We can sit here and throw all the resources and money to try to fix this problem but the bottom line is there is no way to actually close the gap at its entirety.

Do you think that there's any relationship between what happens in society and what happens at home? Or is what happens at home completely unrelated to everything else?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

So for children who have parents who (according to you) have lacking homes is, what's your answer? Too bad, you should have picked richer, whiter parents?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it doesn't. It answers a different question

Q: How can schools close the gap?
A: They can't.

So, what can close the gap, and how?

Having all parents understand that education starts at home and doesn't just occur during the school day once a child turns 5. We get kids who arrive in Kindergarten not knowing the names of colors, shapes, how to count to 5, how to recognize their own name in print, how to toilet themselves, or how to hold a pencil or scissors. It also takes them a while to acclimate to how to be in school and that expectations in school are different than at home. No, it doesn't mean preschool is necessary for everyone, but for some kids coming to school is completely brand new on every level.

By the time these kids learn these skills they are already way behind. The curriculum is written assuming children have background knowledge they don't have. Yes, there are interventions but when it takes them two marking periods to learn the skills listed above, they're already way behind. They are spending their time and energy learning those skills, so all of the skills being taught above and beyond those aren't sinking in, so when the same skills are spiraled in later meant as reinforcement these kids are learning them for the first time and aren't building upon them as designed--they're experiencing them for the first time. This cycle builds and builds until there are gaping holes that just can't be filled in the time they're in school.

OK. What can be done, by whom, to make that happen?

Nothing can be done. It would require people to PERSONALLY make this decision and to change their value system. Schools cannot and SHOULD not be held responsible for making sure that this happens to compensate for what is lacking at home. There is only.so.much. that schools can do. HOw about personal ownership and pride as a parent that you want the best for your child?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, it doesn't. It answers a different question

Q: How can schools close the gap?
A: They can't.

So, what can close the gap, and how?

Having all parents understand that education starts at home and doesn't just occur during the school day once a child turns 5. We get kids who arrive in Kindergarten not knowing the names of colors, shapes, how to count to 5, how to recognize their own name in print, how to toilet themselves, or how to hold a pencil or scissors. It also takes them a while to acclimate to how to be in school and that expectations in school are different than at home. No, it doesn't mean preschool is necessary for everyone, but for some kids coming to school is completely brand new on every level.

By the time these kids learn these skills they are already way behind. The curriculum is written assuming children have background knowledge they don't have. Yes, there are interventions but when it takes them two marking periods to learn the skills listed above, they're already way behind. They are spending their time and energy learning those skills, so all of the skills being taught above and beyond those aren't sinking in, so when the same skills are spiraled in later meant as reinforcement these kids are learning them for the first time and aren't building upon them as designed--they're experiencing them for the first time. This cycle builds and builds until there are gaping holes that just can't be filled in the time they're in school.

Did I write this? I had to check the date because this is exactly what I would have written. I teach in a Title 1 school in MD but not MCPS. The gap exists before birth. IMO, the best use of funding is with universal pre-school starting at age 3. At my school, we have preschool for 4 year olds and there is a huge difference between a kindergartner who has been to preschool and one who hasn't. They are more prepared for the curriculum and less time is spent on skills I would expect a child to learn at home (how to hold a crayon/pencil, how to write their name, colors, numbers, letters, concepts of print, etc). So instead of teaching students how to cut, they are jump into a curriculum that expects they already have been read to their entire lives. There is a lesson on character traits? I need to back up a week or two to introduce all of the prereqs to that even though that isn't in the curriculum. Can't do character traits until a student knows what a book is, how to hold it, how it is read, it is made up of letters that makes up words that make up sentences, etc. How is a letter different from a word? A sentence? A number? That words and pictures convey meaning. The people are/or animals in the story are characters. To be a character, this is required. Etc. Of course this makes up majorly behind and we get yelled at because we aren't on target but it's necessary. Sometimes it just seems ridiculous when you are supposed to be teaching this higher level stuff and then you tell the student to go put something in his/her locker and they can't find it because they don't know their name in print yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why some of the teachers on this board are so quick to be negative. It’s a pilot at 2 schools that was just approved on Monday. Give McPS a chance to try it and see what happens. If it’s a failure it obviously won’t continue. And if it’s not (and some of the data up thread point to positive outcomes), then that’s a great thing for kids.

Those of us who have been in MCPS for a long time understand that MCPS cherry picks data and spins it to support whatever they want their narrative to be, whether that's what's really going on or not. I'm interested to see the data, but I don't trust the data that MCPS puts out there--if that makes sense.

That doesn't get us anywhere, though, PP. If the premise is that MCPS always cooks the books, then we can't know anything or learn anything.

NP here. Data don't lie. Are you saying that MCPS is "changing" the data so that it can support their agenda? That's a pretty bold accusation. Been a long time MCPS parent and MCPS graduate myself.

Rolling out this pilot would cost millions and millions of dollars. I don't think there's much incentive for MCPS to cook the books on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I've been in education for longer than many of you have been around. This is NOT the way to close the gap.

never has been, never will be

Superficial steps don't create long-lasting results.

OK, what IS the way to close the gap?

The gap has already been created before kids even step foot in a school.

That doesn't answer the question.

It actually does. What goes on at home is actually more important than what goes on at school. There are very few kids who beat the statistics, unfortunately. We can spin it however we want and make schools the scapegoat, but the fact is that the achievement gap will never be closed by just schools alone.

Plus a million. At what point will we realize that what happens at home is the biggest predictor of success. We can sit here and throw all the resources and money to try to fix this problem but the bottom line is there is no way to actually close the gap at its entirety.