Just to repeat, national team camps are 100% free, including travel, food, and lodging, plus any gear you require for the camp. This includes domestic and international camps/trips. There are plenty of youth national team regulars who come from low-income families.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:The basic point is correct -- cost is an issue, as is travel (much easier to get the time off to shuttle your kids around when you're in a white-collar job).

The idea that $15,000/year is typical, much less the average for *any* player and not just the top 0.1 percent, is bizarre.

$5k/year for *national team* camps? I may check into it, I can't believe that's true. I've heard plenty of stories of talented kids who can't afford to play elite travel. I've never heard of anyone turning down a youth national team camp because of cost.

Also -- the idea that the typical NFL player paid a lot of many for camps before high school is ludicrous. Some, sure. Plenty of QB camps for the next Peyton Manning. Maybe some kicking camps. But the pathway isn't exactly closed for a big, aggressive defensive lineman who plays everyday rec football (possibly with financial aid) and then high school.

I don't think she said it was typical. I think she meant that's what she would have had to pay to play at the highest level if leagues and clubs were like they are now. Again, that is a reasonable estimate for Development Academy and ECNL, especially those that have to travel to national team camps a few times a year. You pay your own travel even if camps are free.

From the original story: "In making her case, Solo said that the average price for a kid to play soccer in the U.S. is $15,000 per year."

I've yet to see any clarification.

On national team camps: A previous poster said transportation was indeed free. I'm looking into it. In any case, that's 1-2 camps a year for the most part. Flying first class?

I concede on both points. Although travel for ECNL girls in ODP can also add up if they make regionals and/or national camps. Ir can be several times a year not just 1-2.

Whether Hope got the $s right or not, soccer in the US is expensive! And I find the claims that kids can just play rec absolutely mind-blowing. This is the same soccer board that obsesses about low-talent kids fighting to make an A or B team. Now we want the real natural talents with a love of the game to settle for rec? Something's really wrong here and I can't believe people who claim not to notice that.

Again, hope may not have had the dollars wrong (average vs. average elite level teen) but she's not wrong that pay to play hurts US soccer and doesn't select for the best talent. And I know, I know, Christian Pulisic. I find it sad that that's the go-to. Since when is America happy that we have one kid who's among the worlds 100 best? Would we be happy with only 1/100 NFL, MLB or NBA players? We wouldn't even settle for one in a hundred snowboarders, hurdlers, or skeet shooters. America is a big, rich, athletically stocked country and we should do much much better than to just have Christian Politic.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:The basic point is correct -- cost is an issue, as is travel (much easier to get the time off to shuttle your kids around when you're in a white-collar job).

The idea that $15,000/year is typical, much less the average for *any* player and not just the top 0.1 percent, is bizarre.

$5k/year for *national team* camps? I may check into it, I can't believe that's true. I've heard plenty of stories of talented kids who can't afford to play elite travel. I've never heard of anyone turning down a youth national team camp because of cost.

Also -- the idea that the typical NFL player paid a lot of many for camps before high school is ludicrous. Some, sure. Plenty of QB camps for the next Peyton Manning. Maybe some kicking camps. But the pathway isn't exactly closed for a big, aggressive defensive lineman who plays everyday rec football (possibly with financial aid) and then high school.

I don't think she said it was typical. I think she meant that's what she would have had to pay to play at the highest level if leagues and clubs were like they are now. Again, that is a reasonable estimate for Development Academy and ECNL, especially those that have to travel to national team camps a few times a year. You pay your own travel even if camps are free.

From the original story: "In making her case, Solo said that the average price for a kid to play soccer in the U.S. is $15,000 per year."

I've yet to see any clarification.

On national team camps: A previous poster said transportation was indeed free. I'm looking into it. In any case, that's 1-2 camps a year for the most part. Flying first class?

I concede on both points. Although travel for ECNL girls in ODP can also add up if they make regionals and/or national camps. Ir can be several times a year not just 1-2.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:The basic point is correct -- cost is an issue, as is travel (much easier to get the time off to shuttle your kids around when you're in a white-collar job).

The idea that $15,000/year is typical, much less the average for *any* player and not just the top 0.1 percent, is bizarre.

$5k/year for *national team* camps? I may check into it, I can't believe that's true. I've heard plenty of stories of talented kids who can't afford to play elite travel. I've never heard of anyone turning down a youth national team camp because of cost.

Also -- the idea that the typical NFL player paid a lot of many for camps before high school is ludicrous. Some, sure. Plenty of QB camps for the next Peyton Manning. Maybe some kicking camps. But the pathway isn't exactly closed for a big, aggressive defensive lineman who plays everyday rec football (possibly with financial aid) and then high school.

I don't think she said it was typical. I think she meant that's what she would have had to pay to play at the highest level if leagues and clubs were like they are now. Again, that is a reasonable estimate for Development Academy and ECNL, especially those that have to travel to national team camps a few times a year. You pay your own travel even if camps are free.

"Youth Soccer is for Rich White Kids"

Soccer is not a rich white kids sport. It is a sports for poor people just like football, baseball and basketball. I laugh at the fact that people complain they spend 20k/year on their kids for soccer. That's like a drop in the bucket to tennis or golf or piano lessons.

I spent about 40k on tennis, 45k on golf and 40k on piano lessons last year on both my son and daughter.

Are people really counting on future income earnings from a sport that their child plays? I do all of this stuff under no illusion that my kids are going to play professionally. I feel a little premature even imagining them playing in college, frankly. In inwardly cringe when my son tells me he is going to be an NFL player. I want to support any and all dreams but....like .0001% of kids go on to play and from the sounds of it, most regret it due to health concerns.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

A decent football player can make more in one year than most pro soccer players. Even semi pro football players get paid more than pro soccer. A better rounded experience doesn't pay your bills.

Hmm, not so sure about that. My thought is that globally, there is probably more money being paid to professional soccer players, in total, than any other sport.

Did some googling and here's what I found. The average NFL salary is $2.1 mn. MLS average is $315,00. But semi-pro (American) football players make on average only $35,000 per year. So if you make it to the NFL, great. But if not, you're pretty much SOL b/c there aren't any other good options to make a living at the sport. But US lower division soccer salaries aren't even worth looking up, so yeah, within the US, a player has a better chance of making more money at football than soccer.

If a player is willing to live in Europe for a few years though, it could be a completely different story. At the top of the heap, the EPL avg salary is $3.4 mn. Next comes Spain at $2.2 mn, Italy at $1.7, Germany $1.6 mn, and France at $1.2 mn. So those are 5 professional soccer leagues all paying, on average, over $1 mn a year, and 2 of them pay more than the NFL. But that's only part of it. There's still good money to be made even if not playing for one of the big 5. The top divisions even in smaller countries like in Denmark, Austria, Greece, Turkey, the Netherlands, and Belgium all pay more than the MLS average. 2nd division in England averages $650,000. In Germany 2nd division is around $300,000. Heck even 4th division in England offers an average salary over $65,000 - which isn't great but still a lot better than any professional football league other than the NFL pays. And that's 4th division.

But I don't think there are really that many parents who are actually calculating any of that. In general when it comes to sports, parents support their kids in the sports their kids are most passionate about about, and that usually correlates pretty highly to the same sports the parents are passionate about - go figure.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:The basic point is correct -- cost is an issue, as is travel (much easier to get the time off to shuttle your kids around when you're in a white-collar job).

The idea that $15,000/year is typical, much less the average for *any* player and not just the top 0.1 percent, is bizarre.

$5k/year for *national team* camps? I may check into it, I can't believe that's true. I've heard plenty of stories of talented kids who can't afford to play elite travel. I've never heard of anyone turning down a youth national team camp because of cost.

Also -- the idea that the typical NFL player paid a lot of many for camps before high school is ludicrous. Some, sure. Plenty of QB camps for the next Peyton Manning. Maybe some kicking camps. But the pathway isn't exactly closed for a big, aggressive defensive lineman who plays everyday rec football (possibly with financial aid) and then high school.

National team camps are free, including transportation, and you get free clothes and gear, some of which you keep, some you return. Id2 is free other than the costs of getting to the site (international trips include free transportation). For boys playing for MLS academies, the Generation Adidas Cup is free, including transportation (obviously, most MLS academies are free, but even for those that aren't, like DC United, GA Cup is free).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

A decent football player can make more in one year than most pro soccer players. Even semi pro football players get paid more than pro soccer. A better rounded experience doesn't pay your bills.

There’s more to life than bills. Especially if you know how to live within your means, how to relate to the world after you retire and so forth. And though concussions are a problem in soccer, there’s a bit less CTE. Or heart disease/apnea, if we’re talking linemen and linebackers.

Yeah, I’m choosing soccer.

Soccer can be played on the weekend for fun.

Anonymous wrote:There really are not real pro opportunities for soccer players in the US.

There are 23 teams in MLS. Stick around a couple of years, and you’re likely making six figures.

In women’s soccer, you have to be on the national team to make that kind of money, sure. But there aren’t better opportunities anywhere else — only a handful of Euro clubs may well, and they only pay the stars.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

A decent football player can make more in one year than most pro soccer players. Even semi pro football players get paid more than pro soccer. A better rounded experience doesn't pay your bills.

There’s more to life than bills. Especially if you know how to live within your means, how to relate to the world after you retire and so forth. And though concussions are a problem in soccer, there’s a bit less CTE. Or heart disease/apnea, if we’re talking linemen and linebackers.

Yeah, I’m choosing soccer.

There really are not real pro opportunities for soccer players in the US.

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

A decent football player can make more in one year than most pro soccer players. Even semi pro football players get paid more than pro soccer. A better rounded experience doesn't pay your bills.

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

Yeah. If it truly is your passion, you’ll take the soccer. A lot of players in South America wouldn’t scoff at that 40k/year.

This isn't South America...

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think another issue in addition to money barrier in development programs/teams is the pay once you get to pro level.

If you have a very athletic kid which would you spend your resources on? Developing a pro football player who could earn a couple of million/year or a pro soccer player who would be lucky to bring in a couple hundred thousand/year? See Odell Beckham. Nevermind the women's teams don't pay more than $40k/year. For that amount you may as well study to take the entry level desk job!

I'd choose soccer. Longer careers. Better-rounded experience.

Yeah. If it truly is your passion, you’ll take the soccer. A lot of players in South America wouldn’t scoff at that 40k/year.