Anonymous
03/24/2018 06:46
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:^^ I ask because my kid got into several schools, but we haven't told anyone yet. Who on earth would be the repository of such data at this point? There are 475+ kids in the grade.
Exactly. I think PP is the mom who posted a couple weeks back with a cautionary post about how difficult it is for DCPS kids to get into a private school because her accomplished snowflake didn’t. She’s extrapolating. And no one has data on all DCPS and charter kids who apply for private.
Anonymous
03/24/2018 06:42
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
You left off an option: limit OOB feeder rights. If you just made OOB feeder a lottery preference and not a right the crowding at Wilson and Deal would be fixed right away and you wouldn't have to move any boundaries. If Michelle Rhee had done that ten years ago when feeder rights were created nobody would have squawked at the time and we never would have gotten into this mess.
People keep saying to limit the OOB feeder rights. Isn't this being taken care of naturally anyway? IB folks are getting shut out for PK4 at most Deal feeders now. Where are people getting in OOB to a Deal feeder at this point? I know this was more of an option several years ago, but those kids would have to be grandfathered in to any policy change regardless. And honestly, how many kids are we really talking about? 100? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but just seems like it would be a big fight to change a policy that has been in place for a long time that seems like it will soon be moot. I just don't see this as being the biggest contributor to the overcrowding.
Far more than 100.
For example: 12% of Lafayette was OOB in 2016-17 or 91 students; 7% of Janney or 50 students, etc.
But those numbers are across 7 grades, not one or 4 (number of high school grades). They could try and end feeder rights but it would require several years of grandfathering. People like to say that the feeder right policy for OOB hasn’t been around long. It’s been almost a decade, which is longer than the 7 years my family has been in the DCPS system. Acting as if it’s so easy to wipe it away is really naive.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 22:14
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They are going to have to create another by-right HS WoTP, right?
To me, it's only a matter of time.
Or change the feeder pattern and route some students to another by-right high school.
Or stop letting kids who got into an elementary or middle school OOB continue on through the feeder pattern. If you get a lottery spot at Hearst, you're there through 5th grade and that's the only guarantee you get. Deal figures out how many extra spaces it has and does a lottery for them (DCPS could give a preference for OOB kids at feeder schools though personally I'd rather they didn't). Same with high school.
There are fewer than 1000 IB kids at Wilson now. The school is not out of room by any means. Having some of the OOB kids attending their IB high schools (which should get more funding for things like honors and AP classes even if the classes are tiny at first, extracurriculars, guidance counselors, etc.) would be better for those schools and better for traffic and better for the district as a whole.
The way OOB feeder rights work is destabilizing to public education in the rest of the city.
Thank you, Michelle Rhee.
Just want to remind everyone that before her, OOB worked just as the first pp here wisely suggests. OOB families at Deal feeders had to lottery after 5th and Melissa Kim, then the principal at Deal, would see how many open spots she had, not sure about moving onto Wilson-in those days it wasn't overcrowded, so it probaly was a non issue. Numbers were stable in those days. Rhee shot it all to hell. Let's go back. It's only been 8 years. Not a lifetime.
And the reason Rhee put the policy in is that one year it suddenly got hard to get into Deal. People started complaining, and Rhee panicked and created OOB feeder rights to appease the complainers, without thinking about the consequences. Not her finest hour.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 22:12
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
You left off an option: limit OOB feeder rights. If you just made OOB feeder a lottery preference and not a right the crowding at Wilson and Deal would be fixed right away and you wouldn't have to move any boundaries. If Michelle Rhee had done that ten years ago when feeder rights were created nobody would have squawked at the time and we never would have gotten into this mess.
People keep saying to limit the OOB feeder rights. Isn't this being taken care of naturally anyway? IB folks are getting shut out for PK4 at most Deal feeders now. Where are people getting in OOB to a Deal feeder at this point? I know this was more of an option several years ago, but those kids would have to be grandfathered in to any policy change regardless. And honestly, how many kids are we really talking about? 100? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but just seems like it would be a big fight to change a policy that has been in place for a long time that seems like it will soon be moot. I just don't see this as being the biggest contributor to the overcrowding.
The problem is -- and the reason we got off on this tangent in this thread -- is that there is no connection between the capacity of the feeder schools and the fed schools. So put a new addition on Key and Stoddert, and presto! a few hundred more kids have inalienable rights to Wilson. DCPS has been increasing the capacity of the feeder schools steadily over the past decade or so.
To your actual question, Wilson is only 56% IB. Deal is only 70% IB. All of those OOB kids got there through the feeder school, neither school normally accepts any kids through the lottery. Neither school would be crowded if there weren't feeder rights. Of course, that would force DCPS to come with actual capacity numbers for the schools, something it is loathe to do.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 21:06
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
People keep saying to limit the OOB feeder rights. Isn't this being taken care of naturally anyway? IB folks are getting shut out for PK4 at most Deal feeders now. Where are people getting in OOB to a Deal feeder at this point? I know this was more of an option several years ago, but those kids would have to be grandfathered in to any policy change regardless. And honestly, how many kids are we really talking about? 100? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but just seems like it would be a big fight to change a policy that has been in place for a long time that seems like it will soon be moot. I just don't see this as being the biggest contributor to the overcrowding.
Not really because "central office" just keeps upping the numbers at WOTP schools. The principals have no say in the number at their schools. Central office sets the numbers and then threatens to cut staff if schools don't meet the numbers.
Key and Stoddert wouldn't need additions for just the IB population.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 21:01
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They are going to have to create another by-right HS WoTP, right?
To me, it's only a matter of time.
Or change the feeder pattern and route some students to another by-right high school.
Or stop letting kids who got into an elementary or middle school OOB continue on through the feeder pattern. If you get a lottery spot at Hearst, you're there through 5th grade and that's the only guarantee you get. Deal figures out how many extra spaces it has and does a lottery for them (DCPS could give a preference for OOB kids at feeder schools though personally I'd rather they didn't). Same with high school.
There are fewer than 1000 IB kids at Wilson now. The school is not out of room by any means. Having some of the OOB kids attending their IB high schools (which should get more funding for things like honors and AP classes even if the classes are tiny at first, extracurriculars, guidance counselors, etc.) would be better for those schools and better for traffic and better for the district as a whole.
The way OOB feeder rights work is destabilizing to public education in the rest of the city.
Thank you, Michelle Rhee.
Just want to remind everyone that before her, OOB worked just as the first pp here wisely suggests. OOB families at Deal feeders had to lottery after 5th and Melissa Kim, then the principal at Deal, would see how many open spots she had, not sure about moving onto Wilson-in those days it wasn't overcrowded, so it probaly was a non issue. Numbers were stable in those days. Rhee shot it all to hell. Let's go back. It's only been 8 years. Not a lifetime.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 20:21
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Shepherd is still close to half OOB. There are a couple other Wilson feeders that also have high OOB percentages—Hearst, Eaton, etc.
Getting rid of automatic OOB feeder right wouldn’t be a permanent solution, but it could be a good solution for a few years at least.
Getting rid of automatic OOB feeder right wouldn’t be a permanent solution, but it could be a good solution for a few years at least.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 19:14
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
For this school year, Lafayette, Janney, Hearst, Shepherd, Key, Hyde, Mann, Eaton and Murch all made offers to some OOB students on their wait lists.
So yes, the schools are all IB for PK, but they still make room for OOB.
So yes, the schools are all IB for PK, but they still make room for OOB.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 19:07
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
You left off an option: limit OOB feeder rights. If you just made OOB feeder a lottery preference and not a right the crowding at Wilson and Deal would be fixed right away and you wouldn't have to move any boundaries. If Michelle Rhee had done that ten years ago when feeder rights were created nobody would have squawked at the time and we never would have gotten into this mess.
People keep saying to limit the OOB feeder rights. Isn't this being taken care of naturally anyway? IB folks are getting shut out for PK4 at most Deal feeders now. Where are people getting in OOB to a Deal feeder at this point? I know this was more of an option several years ago, but those kids would have to be grandfathered in to any policy change regardless. And honestly, how many kids are we really talking about? 100? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but just seems like it would be a big fight to change a policy that has been in place for a long time that seems like it will soon be moot. I just don't see this as being the biggest contributor to the overcrowding.
Far more than 100.
For example: 12% of Lafayette was OOB in 2016-17 or 91 students; 7% of Janney or 50 students, etc.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 18:53
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
You left off an option: limit OOB feeder rights. If you just made OOB feeder a lottery preference and not a right the crowding at Wilson and Deal would be fixed right away and you wouldn't have to move any boundaries. If Michelle Rhee had done that ten years ago when feeder rights were created nobody would have squawked at the time and we never would have gotten into this mess.
People keep saying to limit the OOB feeder rights. Isn't this being taken care of naturally anyway? IB folks are getting shut out for PK4 at most Deal feeders now. Where are people getting in OOB to a Deal feeder at this point? I know this was more of an option several years ago, but those kids would have to be grandfathered in to any policy change regardless. And honestly, how many kids are we really talking about? 100? I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but just seems like it would be a big fight to change a policy that has been in place for a long time that seems like it will soon be moot. I just don't see this as being the biggest contributor to the overcrowding.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 17:58
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
Just what are the policy advantages of a "citywide lottery," pray tell? I assume (perhaps incorrectly?) that any of these said "policy advantages" are based on a premise that the same capable students who currently inhabit a middle school like Deal are going to enter a city-wide high school lottery. I think the likelihood of that premise being correct is close to nil. Please tell me how the outcome could be otherwise, given the evidence that already exists over the decades in this city [hint: parents either move away, or move away if they don't get into a decent Charter]? Or, if you agree that the likelihood of the most capable students at Deal entering a lottery for HS is near zero, what would be the advantages of a citywide lottery?
Anonymous
03/23/2018 17:52
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
You left off an option: limit OOB feeder rights. If you just made OOB feeder a lottery preference and not a right the crowding at Wilson and Deal would be fixed right away and you wouldn't have to move any boundaries. If Michelle Rhee had done that ten years ago when feeder rights were created nobody would have squawked at the time and we never would have gotten into this mess.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 17:44
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
A BIG part of the reason why they did the boundary work with DME Smith a couple years ago, frankly, was that Wilson was overcrowded and building another WOTP HS was going to be a ridiculous admission that the rest of the city's DCPS had failed to attract families. Because the truth is that they can't just build another floor on top, and the natural ways to have the school work are (1) citywide lottery, which has policy advantages that are real, but DCUM dismisses, and (2) tightening geographic boundaries to cut off the eastward flank. A Ward 3 high school that's only for Ward 3 would likely suit Ward 3 demand long term. One that is open to its current enrollment pattern is not sustainable.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
The response is not to kidnap Ellington and turn it into Wilson II and force them into Shaw JHS, build a second WOTP high school, or something similar, the correct response is bar admissions from east of Rock Creek Park and make everyone build up the schools in their neighborhoods.
That's the outcome I want. I don't want my kids to go to Wilson. I want them to thrive at Roosevelt or Coolidge in our Ward or beat your kids out for SWW or Banneker. Please, go ahead and talk about MCPS or private, but that's my plan and my policy preference.
I'll tell you this. If a Mayor or a Ward 4 CM tells me that they support a second high school in Ward 3, I am going to go all-out to tear that policy choice down or throw that person out of office. That is not a solution for our school system and just throwing more money at delaying a solution.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 17:38
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
^^ I ask because my kid got into several schools, but we haven't told anyone yet. Who on earth would be the repository of such data at this point? There are 475+ kids in the grade.
Anonymous
03/23/2018 17:36
Subject: Stoddert and Key to get expansions
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So what you/re saying is Wilson is going to have an extra 100 kids in, say, three years?
Maybe, if they all go to Wilson.
But some will go to SWW. And others may decide to go to Ellington, Banneker, McKinley or dual language high school at Roosevelt (ok that's probably a long shot).
100 isn't so many.
And lots of kids will go private. We've been DCPS since PS3 and will stay in DCPS through 8th but will likely go private for high school.
It's not easy to "go private" for high school out of Deal. Something like 20 kids TOTAL were accepted to ANY private school from Deal this year.
You don't just walk into private school in 9th grade. Your kid has to be the best of the best and even then it's a lottery. I know a large number
of kids with all A's at Deal who were shut out in 9th grade private admissions.
Just an FYI. You just don't "go private" when you decide to not use Wilson.
Where did you get that figure?