Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has gone off the relationship topic, but has great information for me. Thanks.

It seems like requesting/demanding (if the request is not granted) accommodations could help.

I see two areas:

1) While she is in intensive therapy, ensure there is at least one non-therapy day to complete the assignment. Practically, that would mean if the teacher assigns something on monday, she would have until at least Sat. to get it in.

2) Reduce the audio-distractions from other classmates during exams. The audio distractions render her unable to concentrate, and become the focus of her energy. Practically, this would probably mean either allowing her to take the test in an isolated setting or use noise attenuating headgear.

Does this sound reasonable?

Honestly you don’t sound reasonable. You just dismiss out of hand that academic pressure may be overwhelming because she told you it wasn’t. You are clearly deeply, intensely committed to her academic success and achievement. I doubt your dd is able to just tell you what’s bothering her here.

What if you told her that the most important thing was her health and well-being, that she would do the best she could this year and that taking AB Calc next year was not crucial to her happiness or future success? Because it’s not.

She as told me, she told her therapists, she told my wife. I am confident that it is not school pressure. She likes learning and school. The other problem is as a rising junior, there are no viable math options slower than AB calculus. The problem she is having in math is because she loses focus during the tests -- not because she can not keep up with the workload. She specifically said the noise another kid was making so annoyed her she could not concentrate.

.
OP, i beg you, repost this in the Special Needs forum. There are tons of parents there who can offer you their experience and you will mot be side tracked by people who want to make this problem into something about you (as you were doing to your wife .. ironic?)

If OP can write the sentence "as a rising junior, there are no viable math options slower than AB calculus" with a straight face he needs to at least have qualified outsiders consider whether he is part of the problem.

I'm not saying she's not smart or that she hates learning, OP, I'm saying she has other issues that are interfering with her academics. FFS let them interfere! Get her out of there! Put your kid over her math track for a change. "She specifically said the noise another kid was making so annoyed her" jesus h christ. Did she specifically say it when being questioned by you, her unbelievably judgmental dad whose self worth is tied up in her academic success and intelligence who will turn on his wife, her teachers, etc if they interfere with his plans? Okay then I guess what your daughter needs is for you to resolve to "request/demand" things so she's not threatened by a NON VIABLE MATH OPTION omfg.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In a group of parents with other teens in the program, we are trying to learn / discover how parent/handle the teen to keep her safe. It is supposed to be confidential.

As for school, my thinking is we want to reduce the stress while not hurting the child long term.

Frankly, DD is a high achieving kid, does not drink or do drugs, wants to go to school, and wants to do well.

There are specific instances where a classroom situation is causing inordinate stress: one class where she seems to know the material (based on my looking at the situation), but she is underperforming, probably because of the lack of time for homework. What I want the teacher to do is look beyond the grades and look at her responses in class.

This is a tough problem: we do not have an IEP or 504 (yet), but we are asking for compassion.

I speak as a parent of a child with depression. I am actually quite saddened by reading this thread. This is page 4 and the first time anyone has mentioned a 504 plan. I am saddened because 504 plans can be tremendously helpful to kids with depression, anxiety and other physical or mental illnesses, yet this thread has gone on and on analyzing whether your DW is in denial about your DDs illnesses, when DW is actually expressing some legitimate concerns about privacy that a 504 plan can address. Very few parents know about these plans and how to access them, and schools do not tell, because it requires them to do something. You absolutely should not be writing individual emails to teachers explaining in great detail about your DD's health and begging for "compassion". Your DD has a medical illness that qualifies as a "disability" under Section 504 of the 1973 Rehabilitation Act. As such she is entitled to a formal, written 504 plan with all the accommodations necessary to help her manage her illness and health AND still take all the high level advanced classes she wants.

Your DD should have had a 504 plan immediately. If the school couldn't take time immediately for a formal 504 plan (because it's not easy to schedule a meeting for 5-6 school staff), your school has the discretion to immediately extend a "health plan."

Have you made a formal written request for a 504 plan to the school? If not, do it TODAY. A 504 plan requires a showing of 1) disability that 2) substantially limits a major life activity. There is no strict definition of "substantial limitation"; the determination must be made on an individual basis. The life activities can be things that happen in school or out of school -- learning, sleep, eating, concentrating, remembering, etc. The measure of "substantial limitation" is NOT grades and it is NOT whether or not the child is in advanced classes. So, your child can have depression which causes cutting, which can substantially limit their ability to concentrate in class because they are worrying about whether people will see their cut marks or substantially limit their ability to learn because they are spending so much time in a outpatient program to address the illness, and even though they are still getting As and Bs in advanced classes, they will still qualify for a 504 plan.

Write a letter that requests the 504 plan and names the diagnosis your DD has and what major life activities are affected. Depression often affects sleep, memory, and ability to concentrate. Those, in turn, affect learning. All these are "major life activities". Attach a letter of support from the doctor that diagnosed your DD. The doctor's letter has to have the same elements -- diagnosis, some information about what major life activities are affected and a recommendation for a 504 plan.

Once you write the letter the school should schedule the meeting ASAP and at that time you should request informal accommodations. It is NOT ok for the school to say , "sorry we can't meet for a month and we can't do anything until then." Your DD is ill now and the stress of not having any accommodations is making her illness WORSE. Everything has to go in writing to the school, otherwise it didn't happen. So, if the school says they can't meet for a few weeks, respond in writing that you can agree to the later meeting date if the school agrees to put XXX informal accommodations in place between now and the formal meeting date.

At the 504 meeting, the team (which includes you and anyone you want to invite -- doctor, therapist, other family members and your DD if you feel she wants to be there), the team will assess whether your DD meets the criteria for a 504 plan (which I wrote above). Sometimes the 504 team itself doesn't understand the law and puts extra criteria that are not appropriate -- grades and level of class taken. In other words, we have heard 504 teams say, "sorry, we can't give you a 504 plan because you have As and Bs and are taking advanced classes." Grades are NOT the criteria; you do not have to have failing grades to get a 504 plan. Also, teams who say this will often suggest, "Maybe what is causing you stress is all those AP classes you are taking. You should drop those to relieve your stress." Again, this is NOT legally appropriate. High achieving students do NOT have to give up their access to accelerated classes in order to access a 504 plan nor is dropping classes appropriate as a form of "self-accommodation". Your DD is probably extra-stressed because on top of having a real illness to deal with, she is worried about having to drop classes or get bad grades and thus sees the future she saw for herself disappearing. Also, for some bright kids, advanced classes are all that keeps them from being bored out of their skulls; drop the classes and depression becomes worse not better. Your child should be accommodated instead of having to self-accommodate. If the 504 team refuses to provide a plan, please write a letter of complaint to your county-wide 504 supervisor. Your DD clearly meets the criteria.

Your 504 plan should include things like: copy of class notes, extra time on tests, ability to reschedule assessment and assignment deadlines, reduced homework (meaning DD doesn't have to do all homework), flash pass to the nurse when not feeling well, and, frankly, anything else that you think you need. Do not let the team tell you "we don't do that". They do. In fact, even if you're asking for something they've never done before, if your suggested accommodation meets a need of your daughter's then your team MUST consider it or offer a substitute that meets the need. Each child must be assessed individually and the team cannot impose a template (this is what we do for depressed kids).

Once you have the 504 plan, your DD's counselor shares that plan with all her teachers. The teachers receive a 1 or 2 page piece of paper that includes a diagnosis (so they will see "depression") and a list of all the accommodations. That is all a teacher needs to know. A teacher doesn't need to know all the details about the illness that you have been sharing. Your DW is right about that, and you should be more respectful of her perspective. Perhaps you can see that she is an under-sharer and you are an over-sharer and the right way is somewhere in between? Teachers MUST follow the accommodations. All your DD has to do is go to the teacher and say, "I am using my accommodations to reschedule this assignment deadline. I think I can get it to you by XXX date." Or DD can email (we like this approach, because it's a bit more private, DD can self-advocate, a parent can quickly review the email to make sure it has polite tone and then parent knows what has been rescheduled and there is also a paper trail if the teacher refuses or forgets). I say teachers MUST follow the accommodations, but IME every year there is a teacher who refuses. This requires parental follow up via a polite email, describing the refusal and the legal obligation of the teacher to comply. First non-compliance gets a polite reminder. Second non-compliance forwards earlier email to supervisor detailing failure to comply and new non-compliance. Third non-compliance forwards all earlier emails outside the school to the Section 504 coordinator for the school system.

Your DD needs a 504 plan in school, because it also applies to SAT, ACT, AP and other important tests she will have to take. Your begging for "compassion" from teachers does nothing to address these situations. Once you have the 504 plan, it is a simple matter for the counselor to submit the plan to the institutions that run these tests and ask for accommodations there too. Plus, if your DD goes to college, she may well need accommodations there. Having had a history of a 504 plan will make getting accommodations at college easier.

There is a wide range of what kids with depression need. My DD is an extremely bright student taking tons of AP classes even though her depression means that she misses up to 50% of some classes when she is not well. One thing that has really improved her health is having a 504 plan. It means that she does not have to worry about school and how she will manage that, because there is a plan. Most teachers are cooperative. DD's privacy is preserved and she can feel like a "normal" child because she is still a "normal" child even though she struggles with depression. She still has her aspirations for the future because she is still able to take the classes she wants in school. Depression has become a medical illness that she manages like other kids do for diabetes or concussion or whatever. Some teachers are not cooperative and have challenged DD saying she is lazy or using her plan to procrastinate or whatever, but because she has a plan, DD can stick up for herself. DD is learning that some in society still have antiquated ideas about MI, but this helps her learn that they are wrong.

If your DD becomes so ill that she really can't be in school, home and hospital teaching is available. But, IME, it is better to try to keep kids in school where possible because while school can be a stressor, it also provides a network of support that is protective (something to do and some friends that are helpful). Home and hospital really cuts a student off and isolates them and that can be very negative. If you get to that point, please post in the Special Needs forum for some pointers about HHT.

Finally, some other resources for you and your wife -- please take a NAMI Family to Family class together. It will teach you both about mental illness and give you an opportunity to talk about many, many issues you will confront about your child. You have a health issue that you have to manage. Don't make this a relationship issue between you and your wife where one of you is right and one of you is wrong. The problems you face are extraordinarily complex and there will often NOT be a clear "right" way to handle things.

Anonymous wrote:Some people do not like to share their struggles, OP. It's actually very common. I couldn't be like that OP, and people are usually nothing but sympathetic when you tell them about something going on with your child. When you open up, people open up in return and talk about their struggles and then you don't feel so alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has gone off the relationship topic, but has great information for me. Thanks.

It seems like requesting/demanding (if the request is not granted) accommodations could help.

I see two areas:

1) While she is in intensive therapy, ensure there is at least one non-therapy day to complete the assignment. Practically, that would mean if the teacher assigns something on monday, she would have until at least Sat. to get it in.

2) Reduce the audio-distractions from other classmates during exams. The audio distractions render her unable to concentrate, and become the focus of her energy. Practically, this would probably mean either allowing her to take the test in an isolated setting or use noise attenuating headgear.

Does this sound reasonable?

Honestly you don’t sound reasonable. You just dismiss out of hand that academic pressure may be overwhelming because she told you it wasn’t. You are clearly deeply, intensely committed to her academic success and achievement. I doubt your dd is able to just tell you what’s bothering her here.

What if you told her that the most important thing was her health and well-being, that she would do the best she could this year and that taking AB Calc next year was not crucial to her happiness or future success? Because it’s not.

She as told me, she told her therapists, she told my wife. I am confident that it is not school pressure. She likes learning and school. The other problem is as a rising junior, there are no viable math options slower than AB calculus. The problem she is having in math is because she loses focus during the tests -- not because she can not keep up with the workload. She specifically said the noise another kid was making so annoyed her she could not concentrate.

.
OP, i beg you, repost this in the Special Needs forum. There are tons of parents there who can offer you their experience and you will mot be side tracked by people who want to make this problem into something about you (as you were doing to your wife .. ironic?)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has gone off the relationship topic, but has great information for me. Thanks.

It seems like requesting/demanding (if the request is not granted) accommodations could help.

I see two areas:

1) While she is in intensive therapy, ensure there is at least one non-therapy day to complete the assignment. Practically, that would mean if the teacher assigns something on monday, she would have until at least Sat. to get it in.

2) Reduce the audio-distractions from other classmates during exams. The audio distractions render her unable to concentrate, and become the focus of her energy. Practically, this would probably mean either allowing her to take the test in an isolated setting or use noise attenuating headgear.

Does this sound reasonable?

Honestly you don’t sound reasonable. You just dismiss out of hand that academic pressure may be overwhelming because she told you it wasn’t. You are clearly deeply, intensely committed to her academic success and achievement. I doubt your dd is able to just tell you what’s bothering her here.

What if you told her that the most important thing was her health and well-being, that she would do the best she could this year and that taking AB Calc next year was not crucial to her happiness or future success? Because it’s not.

She as told me, she told her therapists, she told my wife. I am confident that it is not school pressure. She likes learning and school. The other problem is as a rising junior, there are no viable math options slower than AB calculus. The problem she is having in math is because she loses focus during the tests -- not because she can not keep up with the workload. She specifically said the noise another kid was making so annoyed her she could not concentrate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has gone off the relationship topic, but has great information for me. Thanks.

It seems like requesting/demanding (if the request is not granted) accommodations could help.

I see two areas:

1) While she is in intensive therapy, ensure there is at least one non-therapy day to complete the assignment. Practically, that would mean if the teacher assigns something on monday, she would have until at least Sat. to get it in.

2) Reduce the audio-distractions from other classmates during exams. The audio distractions render her unable to concentrate, and become the focus of her energy. Practically, this would probably mean either allowing her to take the test in an isolated setting or use noise attenuating headgear.

Does this sound reasonable?

Honestly you don’t sound reasonable. You just dismiss out of hand that academic pressure may be overwhelming because she told you it wasn’t. You are clearly deeply, intensely committed to her academic success and achievement. I doubt your dd is able to just tell you what’s bothering her here.

What if you told her that the most important thing was her health and well-being, that she would do the best she could this year and that taking AB Calc next year was not crucial to her happiness or future success? Because it’s not.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This thread has gone off the relationship topic, but has great information for me. Thanks.

It seems like requesting/demanding (if the request is not granted) accommodations could help.

I see two areas:

1) While she is in intensive therapy, ensure there is at least one non-therapy day to complete the assignment. Practically, that would mean if the teacher assigns something on monday, she would have until at least Sat. to get it in.

2) Reduce the audio-distractions from other classmates during exams. The audio distractions render her unable to concentrate, and become the focus of her energy. Practically, this would probably mean either allowing her to take the test in an isolated setting or use noise attenuating headgear.

Does this sound reasonable?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does 504 plan helps with the calculus AB? If she needs lots for work at home for pre-calc, she will need that time and more for calc. It's not about assignements or projects (which can be accommodated). More time on tests or notes wouldn't help.

the assumption is by next year, she will be out of the crisis and will have the time to study. The issue with the current situation is that on tues - thurs, she is not getting home until 8 PM. And she is usually too emotional then to focus. She grasps the material/understands the concepts, but the lack of practice is leading to simple arithmetic errors.

Is school pressure one of the causes for the crisis? Calc is infinitely harder than pre-calc if you have to study a lot for pre-calc. If your daughter truly requires intense therapy and your family group therapy, do you honestly believe that in 6 months she will be able to handle the pressure of honor classes and tests and whatever else that causes her problems.

We are not really sure the source of the problems. There is social anxiety. School work only contributes in that sometimes she gets anxious before a test. But, when I talk to DD, she does not feel like the school work is a problem. The problem is, while she is getting treated, she can not spend the requisite amount of time on school. I also talked to her, and found out that she talked to her math teacher, and he said that she could have the same issues next year, and can not recommend her for anything more. She gives me an example on a recent test, though...the kid sitting next to her was shaking is hit, which was distracting her (we are getting an evaluation to see if the anxiety/depressing is related to other things, as she is very sensitive to noise/ can not work at home unless it is 100% quiet). With the distraction, she did not bother to 1) check her work, or 2) do the extra credit, as she just wanted to get out of there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does 504 plan helps with the calculus AB? If she needs lots for work at home for pre-calc, she will need that time and more for calc. It's not about assignements or projects (which can be accommodated). More time on tests or notes wouldn't help.

the assumption is by next year, she will be out of the crisis and will have the time to study. The issue with the current situation is that on tues - thurs, she is not getting home until 8 PM. And she is usually too emotional then to focus. She grasps the material/understands the concepts, but the lack of practice is leading to simple arithmetic errors.

Is school pressure one of the causes for the crisis? Calc is infinitely harder than pre-calc if you have to study a lot for pre-calc. If your daughter truly requires intense therapy and your family group therapy, do you honestly believe that in 6 months she will be able to handle the pressure of honor classes and tests and whatever else that causes her problems.

We are not really sure the source of the problems. There is social anxiety. School work only contributes in that sometimes she gets anxious before a test. But, when I talk to DD, she does not feel like the school work is a problem. The problem is, while she is getting treated, she can not spend the requisite amount of time on school. I also talked to her, and found out that she talked to her math teacher, and he said that she could have the same issues next year, and can not recommend her for anything more. She gives me an example on a recent test, though...the kid sitting next to her was shaking is hit, which was distracting her (we are getting an evaluation to see if the anxiety/depressing is related to other things, as she is very sensitive to noise/ can not work at home unless it is 100% quiet). With the distraction, she did not bother to 1) check her work, or 2) do the extra credit, as she just wanted to get out of there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does 504 plan helps with the calculus AB? If she needs lots for work at home for pre-calc, she will need that time and more for calc. It's not about assignements or projects (which can be accommodated). More time on tests or notes wouldn't help.

the assumption is by next year, she will be out of the crisis and will have the time to study. The issue with the current situation is that on tues - thurs, she is not getting home until 8 PM. And she is usually too emotional then to focus. She grasps the material/understands the concepts, but the lack of practice is leading to simple arithmetic errors.

Is school pressure one of the causes for the crisis? Calc is infinitely harder than pre-calc if you have to study a lot for pre-calc. If your daughter truly requires intense therapy and your family group therapy, do you honestly believe that in 6 months she will be able to handle the pressure of honor classes and tests and whatever else that causes her problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does 504 plan helps with the calculus AB? If she needs lots for work at home for pre-calc, she will need that time and more for calc. It's not about assignements or projects (which can be accommodated). More time on tests or notes wouldn't help.

the assumption is by next year, she will be out of the crisis and will have the time to study. The issue with the current situation is that on tues - thurs, she is not getting home until 8 PM. And she is usually too emotional then to focus. She grasps the material/understands the concepts, but the lack of practice is leading to simple arithmetic errors.

Anonymous wrote:How does 504 plan helps with the calculus AB? If she needs lots for work at home for pre-calc, she will need that time and more for calc. It's not about assignements or projects (which can be accommodated). More time on tests or notes wouldn't help.