Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 21:32     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.


That was me. It's both. I'm not sure why it would seem hard to imagine both being true. It's because my kids are not smug about AAP and don't care if their friends are into academics or not that it irritates and embarrasses them when they hear their classmates brag to gen ed kids. They hear kids on the bus say things like, "Oh, you're lucky you don't get much homework in your class. It must be so easy compared to mine. They want us to learn soooo much more in AAP because they know we're smart." Yes, this was actually said on a bus to a field trip where I was a chaperone. My ds told me this kid says things like that all the time and is not well liked because of it, but that he's certainly not the only one.

And I never said it delighted me that gen ed kids surpass AAP kids in high school. I want good things for all kids. I'm simply saying that it makes me glad to see that the kids who weren't identified as advanced or "smart" can find success later on and get into a great school. I'm glad the door to academic success doesn't close at age 8.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 19:50     Subject: No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:And OP many of the students are outperforming the kids who were in AAP. And it's sweet justice.

Nice attitude, mom
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 19:17     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
19:11. It's probably school specific like everything else. I know many families and have read comments on this board that both show FCPS does not always offer compacted math in the elementary grades.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 19:11     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:FCPS can't even keep advanced math in elementary for all students in elementary. After rolling out their EMIS program which allowed advanced math for all students in 2011-2012, it's now almost non-existent outside of AAP and has been removed from the FCPS website like so many other things with their new website rollout. I wish the AAP haters who at the same time think AP classes are just fine would get on FCPS's back about actually implementing their own advanced programs outside of AAP LLIV. Maybe then the AAP LLIV program would be less of a target and people would be more comfortable about other paths to advanced academics in elementary and middle. In all FCPS high schools advanced academic classes are offered. But not in all elementary schools or grades.


I’m confused. Our ES has had adanced math for any student that can do it,regardless of Level IV AAP. My two are in college now and they were in it when they were in ES (in the 2000’s). When my oldest was there,they called it compacted math. Kids there still can get into the advanced math classes with being tagged as AAP.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 18:52     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
My comment on 12:23 shows that FCPS and parents are doing very little about making sure general ed children are getting advanced math outside of AAP. A program was started and in less than 2-3 years, it has gone away. Lets start there first and actually hold onto the differentiation FCPS has already agreed to and see how that goes with teachers and students and then talk about getting rid of so many kids in AAP.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 18:31     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:15:09 Do you also realize that there are more private school parents in APS than in FCPS and that there is also this triple track of private school and homeschool parents that try to escape FARM students? There are also APS parents that switch to FCPS for AAP. It's all a balancing act. I still think some of the boundary adjustments and the IB decisions have led to more segregation than AAP in FCPS. If anything AAP helps keep some higher income people in lower income neighborhoods. At least they have a potential escape verses having to move entirely.


No, I'm not aware of APS having more private school parents than in FCPS. Is there Census or ACS data that supports that assertion?

I recognize that many (not all) people choose private schools or to homeschools because of the demographics of their public school alternatives.

My larger point was that, once a system commits as heavily to differentiated instruction as FCPS has done with AAP, it becomes very difficult to change course, because people adapt to that system. But if FCPS had to do it over again, would it really have gone down this path? Threads like this reveal the tensions.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 15:42     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
15:09 Do you also realize that there are more private school parents in APS than in FCPS and that there is also this triple track of private school and homeschool parents that try to escape FARM students? There are also APS parents that switch to FCPS for AAP. It's all a balancing act. I still think some of the boundary adjustments and the IB decisions have led to more segregation than AAP in FCPS. If anything AAP helps keep some higher income people in lower income neighborhoods. At least they have a potential escape verses having to move entirely.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 15:09     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:10:51 ATS though is a school that teaches advanced academics. HB Woodlawn is also known similarly and both of these enrollments are being discussed as unfair processes by APS parents. APS switches classes for advanced academics and they have magnet schools rather than special gifted program schools. It's a matter of opinion which program is more low key and there are plenty of APS parents who say the gifted education is not enough there.

I'm sure FCPS could do a better job with their AAP program, but IMO, they have other programs that are serving students worse than AAP and the amount of vitrol on this site for AAP is just not matching what we both agree is reality. I've also just seen too many schools decide not to offer any AAP services to be sure they would be offered if AAP went away. 10:11 said it best and most concisely.


Again, there is a significant difference between "choice" schools with a particular curriculum, where admission is still by lottery, and test-in only programs such as AAP in FCPS where key decisions are initially made in second grade.

The complaints relating to HB Woodlawn have less to do with its admissions policies (although some gossip about whether the children of well-connected parents are favored) and more to do with the fact that it is a small program getting a new building at a time when other schools in APS are seriously overcrowded.


APS also has a test in program.


It is much more low-key. APS does not, for example, separately report students participating in gifted programs in its enrollment statistics. You do not find multiple threads about how to appeal decisions in APS, or whether particular scores will be good enough to gain admission to the APS program.

AAP has become a form educational crack in FCPS. The more affluent want it because their children are entitled to the best things in life, Asians want it because they come from cultures where the results of admissions tests can determine long-term access to educational resources, and the middle class in poorer areas want it as a way to escape the ESOL/FARMS students. Over time, it's produced a dual system at the ES/MS levels in much of the county that replicates some of the attributes of a system with formal segregation.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 15:00     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:10:51 ATS though is a school that teaches advanced academics. HB Woodlawn is also known similarly and both of these enrollments are being discussed as unfair processes by APS parents. APS switches classes for advanced academics and they have magnet schools rather than special gifted program schools. It's a matter of opinion which program is more low key and there are plenty of APS parents who say the gifted education is not enough there.

I'm sure FCPS could do a better job with their AAP program, but IMO, they have other programs that are serving students worse than AAP and the amount of vitrol on this site for AAP is just not matching what we both agree is reality. I've also just seen too many schools decide not to offer any AAP services to be sure they would be offered if AAP went away. 10:11 said it best and most concisely.


Again, there is a significant difference between "choice" schools with a particular curriculum, where admission is still by lottery, and test-in only programs such as AAP in FCPS where key decisions are initially made in second grade.

The complaints relating to HB Woodlawn have less to do with its admissions policies (although some gossip about whether the children of well-connected parents are favored) and more to do with the fact that it is a small program getting a new building at a time when other schools in APS are seriously overcrowded.


APS also has a test in program.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 12:28     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:10:51 ATS though is a school that teaches advanced academics. HB Woodlawn is also known similarly and both of these enrollments are being discussed as unfair processes by APS parents. APS switches classes for advanced academics and they have magnet schools rather than special gifted program schools. It's a matter of opinion which program is more low key and there are plenty of APS parents who say the gifted education is not enough there.

I'm sure FCPS could do a better job with their AAP program, but IMO, they have other programs that are serving students worse than AAP and the amount of vitrol on this site for AAP is just not matching what we both agree is reality. I've also just seen too many schools decide not to offer any AAP services to be sure they would be offered if AAP went away. 10:11 said it best and most concisely.


Again, there is a significant difference between "choice" schools with a particular curriculum, where admission is still by lottery, and test-in only programs such as AAP in FCPS where key decisions are initially made in second grade.

The complaints relating to HB Woodlawn have less to do with its admissions policies (although some gossip about whether the children of well-connected parents are favored) and more to do with the fact that it is a small program getting a new building at a time when other schools in APS are seriously overcrowded.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 12:23     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
FCPS can't even keep advanced math in elementary for all students in elementary. After rolling out their EMIS program which allowed advanced math for all students in 2011-2012, it's now almost non-existent outside of AAP and has been removed from the FCPS website like so many other things with their new website rollout. I wish the AAP haters who at the same time think AP classes are just fine would get on FCPS's back about actually implementing their own advanced programs outside of AAP LLIV. Maybe then the AAP LLIV program would be less of a target and people would be more comfortable about other paths to advanced academics in elementary and middle. In all FCPS high schools advanced academic classes are offered. But not in all elementary schools or grades.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 11:28     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
tenor of the discussion relating to AAP on these forums is different from what people express to each other "in real life."


On the surface people are civil. The undercurrent, it's ugly.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 11:25     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
do you really remember at graduation time and when college acceptances are out, which students were in AAP?


Yes because the aap parents were that obnoxious
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 11:05     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
10:51 ATS though is a school that teaches advanced academics. HB Woodlawn is also known similarly and both of these enrollments are being discussed as unfair processes by APS parents. APS switches classes for advanced academics and they have magnet schools rather than special gifted program schools. It's a matter of opinion which program is more low key and there are plenty of APS parents who say the gifted education is not enough there.

I'm sure FCPS could do a better job with their AAP program, but IMO, they have other programs that are serving students worse than AAP and the amount of vitrol on this site for AAP is just not matching what we both agree is reality. I've also just seen too many schools decide not to offer any AAP services to be sure they would be offered if AAP went away. 10:11 said it best and most concisely.
Anonymous
Post 02/14/2018 10:51     Subject: Re:No separate AAP student track in FCPS high schools, right?
Anonymous wrote:10:17 Florida is considering a program to allow kids who are bullied to move to private school. Bullying continues at a much higher rate than snobbery over gifted education in the US and it's been proven that schools are not good at dealing with it well. We are at a school that mixes with general ed students except for two subjects, so I see your point that all kids need to learn to get along with each other, however it is important to make sure kids can find like peers as well and I believe this program really has allowed kids who have an interest in academics do work at their level and find peers who are more like them. It's not like AAP is the first gifted program in the US. Gifted programs and magnet schools have been around now for decades. And it's not like LLIV is even the only gifted program in FCPS. There are 3 levels of gifted programs in FCPS. Level 3 and 2 for some reason are never mentioned. APS has ATS, a gifted program that I've heard starts in kindergarten, and HB Woodlawn as well as TJ. Most school districts have some form of gifted education.

The poster who was "delighted" even mentions that her own kids don't care about the level of their friend's interest in academics while at the same time saying she's heard smug AAP kids brag. Is it both or just one observation? Based on her own post and my observations, I find it hard to believe that year after year AAP kids are bragging to other kids in school when she herself doesn't see that in her own kids and says it doesn't matter to anyone they know. It's all overblown on DCUM compared to the real world. The importance of AAP being talked about and the amount of smugness or bullying that goes on over AAP. There just aren't that many discussions on AAP in real life.


ATS and HB Woodlawn are not gifted programs. They are schools where admission is determined by lottery.

Overall, APS takes a much lower key approach to satisfying state requirements in this area than FCPS, as do Loudoun and Falls Church City.

I agree that the tenor of the discussion relating to AAP on these forums is different from what people express to each other "in real life." One could debate which forum more closely reflects one's actual feelings.