PP: Presumably you are a GMU grad. Rolling your eyes and refusing to look deeper into the numbers does nothing to enhance your position.

In fact, at least for me, it has the opposite effect on how you and your school are viewed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever posted the Schev link. Thanks!

Looking at the salary data (median), Tech and GMU are pretty impressive. W&M is surprisingly at the bottom of the pile.

Bachelors degree -
18 months after graduation - UVA - $42K. Tech and GMU - $40/$39K.
5 years after graduation - Tech - 60K; UVA/GMU - 60K

Master's degree - GMU leads for both 18 months after and 5 years after - $58K/74K

Overall all three - GMU, UVA and Tech seem to do well in salaries. W&M is far behind on most categories. Surprised!!

Are GMU salaries for the master's programs higher because of the cohort (already employed folks supplementing their skillsets as opposed to full-time students at UVA/Tech)? Also shouldn't we be looking at mean salaries as opposed to median? Something is not right with this data.

Perhaps "something is not right with this data" because you're one of those posters who refuse to believe GMU is a good school. I think the data says otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:Whoever posted the Schev link. Thanks!

Looking at the salary data (median), Tech and GMU are pretty impressive. W&M is surprisingly at the bottom of the pile.

Bachelors degree -
18 months after graduation - UVA - $42K. Tech and GMU - $40/$39K.
5 years after graduation - Tech - 60K; UVA/GMU - 60K

Master's degree - GMU leads for both 18 months after and 5 years after - $58K/74K

Overall all three - GMU, UVA and Tech seem to do well in salaries. W&M is far behind on most categories. Surprised!!

Are GMU salaries for the master's programs higher because of the cohort (already employed folks supplementing their skillsets as opposed to full-time students at UVA/Tech)? Also shouldn't we be looking at mean salaries as opposed to median? Something is not right with this data.

Sorry! Accidentally hit submit.

Anyway, it is also great the TJ kid consistently reply being very well prepared for WM academics.

I know this comes off as a humblegrag. And it is not meant to be. I just think it shows how distorted the TJ mindset is that attending WM, or having WM as a safety school has became a negative. It’s an impressive school, with impressive kids attending.

This thread is interesting because I have a kid at TJ who is looking a small liberal arts colleges, rather than engineering or hardcore STEM. Last year, TJ had 192 kids apply and 142 accepted (74% acceptance rate). Class of 2017 was generally considered to be very weak. The prior 2 years were 211/173 (82% acceptance rate) and 181/210 (87%). Scattergram shows that every kid with a weighted 4.0 GPA and 1500 on the SATs is accepted.

Going to WM from TJ is gerenally considered to be unimpressive— both within TJ and on this board, where year after year people post that their is no point in TJ because many of the kids *only* go to UVA or WM. But from where I sit, knowing my kid is very likely to get into WM (4,0-4.1 GPA after freshman year, 1440/1520 PSATs in 10th, solid but not exceptional extracurriculars) and that we can pay for it feels pretty great. It is also great that TJ kids consistently repor

You really need to look at Naviance numbers for your specific high school because colleges have different grades selection criteria for different high schools. It my kids school, the magic number for both UVa and William & Mary seems to be a 4.26 Weighted GPA. Anyone at or above that number was accepted and everyone below was rejected, over the last 5 years. Obviously, test scores matter, but with prep classes now, your kid has some control over their scores.

Off topic, but I am little flustered by the apparent grade requirement. I am struggling to figure out how my kid will get to that number despite having almost straight A's and taking a very hard class schedule because there is no added grade bump in Arlington except for AP/IB classes (no .5 bump for honors classes, like in Fairfax). In fact, A's from non-AP classes from middle school and high school bring down the GPA, and it is too late to expunge these grades once the kids starts high school. Also, most kids take a relatively small number of AP classes until 11th grade (especially kids is in Band or other performance class that takes up an elective and prevent the kids from taking an AP elective class, such as Art History. Psychology, Computer Science), and senior grades either aren't included for early applications or only the 1st semester grade are sent.

Whoever posted the Schev link. Thanks!

Looking at the salary data (median), Tech and GMU are pretty impressive. W&M is surprisingly at the bottom of the pile.

Bachelors degree -
18 months after graduation - UVA - $42K. Tech and GMU - $40/$39K.
5 years after graduation - Tech - 60K; UVA/GMU - 60K

Master's degree - GMU leads for both 18 months after and 5 years after - $58K/74K

Overall all three - GMU, UVA and Tech seem to do well in salaries. W&M is far behind on most categories. Surprised!!

Anonymous wrote:Well, I'll try and remember to post back once DD hears from them. She is below average in both her GPA and her test score so if she gets in, it will provide hope for everyone else out there with kids w/no national award(s), no perfect test score and all A+ on their report cards. It truly is a Race to Nowhere.

+100

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we dropped our kid off at W&M a couple of years back, in his welcome talk the college president noted how few of the incoming freshman had perfect GPAs -it was a very very small number. So the class was not made up only of straight A students.

Very encouraging - thank you for posting!

I hate to burst your bubble but a lot has changed just in the last few years. Applications are up at all VA Universities and Colleges. Every year the enrollment stats. jump. According to the SCHEV report the students enrolling at W&M last fall (2017) had a 4.44 GPA for the top quartile; 4.24 for the Mean; and 4.14 for the lowest quartile. Obviously, those are weighted scores. But I've also noticed the ACT scores jump in just the last 3 years. I thought a 34 was a big deal when my DS scored it. Now it looks like 32-36 is more the norm, not the aberrant high scorer. Here's the link to the SCHEV statistics. Plug in College of William and Mary, 2017-2018 and hit "update". That will give you the SAT scores, ACT scores and GPA of incoming students. My understanding is that the heads of UVA and W&M are trying not to advertise facts like this (or the top 10 percent rule) because they want their selectivity ratings to rise on USN&WR. Admissions wants applications to soar (which they are - in three years UVA's has jumped 26% or more) so they can turn down more students. And indeed, UVA and W&M's selectivity percentages are dropping. If all Virginia students know that they must be in the top 10% of their class then they won't apply, like our DD didn't apply. So just keep that in mind when you hear the head of a school say something like that. Use the SCHEV scores and your public's Naviance. Those are your true indicators of chance. http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could see stats comparisons within individual counties.

I'm the PP Dad who mentioned this. This is NOT the document that UVA puts out which lists acceptances by number by County but it is the SCHEV report for domiciles of students enrolled in fall 2017. Plug in the name of the Virginia college or university, year and you will get a sense of where the students come from. Loudon County is seeing the fastest growth. http://research.schev.edu/enrollment/E12A_Report.asp

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, NOVA for 2 years and then transfer is the way to go if your DC is from this area then and not in the range of the SHEVE report posted above - sounds much more tenable and less stress inducing.

Well, it may be tenable, but students who have the stats to have a reasonable chance of acceptance at W&M are probably not going to want to attend NOVA with the C students from their HS while their friends go off to four-year colleges. If their parents can afford W&M, they can probably afford decent OOS schools where those same stats were qualify the student for scholarships. A kid would have to be really fixated on W&M to want to go to NOVA rather than just letting it go and finding a good fit elsewhere for the same price (or less).

I have yet to come across a single person whose kid actually did the transfer to W&M after two years.

If $$ is a concern, kid can go to a lesser VA school, like Mason, and transfer to the flagship if after a year they are still pining for it.

I have one child at Mason and one at UVA. Mason is actually more expensive (dorms or food plan - can't remember which - and their credit hour/tuitions systems are different), so that suggestion doesn't make sense. And all freshman must now live on campus. Those that live close to Mason have to file for a waiver to live off campus; it's not a guarantee. Finally, under your suggestion, they can't apply EA, even apply RD theyare applying to UVA based upon only a fall semester of classes, if that, so UVA is unlikely to take them, but might at the two year mark. A better plan would be to go to community college, take the required courses and get the required GPA, then you are guaranteed a place at UVA at the start of your third year.

Anonymous wrote:

Well, NOVA for 2 years and then transfer is the way to go if your DC is from this area then and not in the range of the SHEVE report posted above - sounds much more tenable and less stress inducing.

Well, it may be tenable, but students who have the stats to have a reasonable chance of acceptance at W&M are probably not going to want to attend NOVA with the C students from their HS while their friends go off to four-year colleges. If their parents can afford W&M, they can probably afford decent OOS schools where those same stats were qualify the student for scholarships. A kid would have to be really fixated on W&M to want to go to NOVA rather than just letting it go and finding a good fit elsewhere for the same price (or less).

I have yet to come across a single person whose kid actually did the transfer to W&M after two years.

If $$ is a concern, kid can go to a lesser VA school, like Mason, and transfer to the flagship if after a year they are still pining for it.

Well, NOVA for 2 years and then transfer is the way to go if your DC is from this area then and not in the range of the SHEVE report posted above - sounds much more tenable and less stress inducing.

Well, it may be tenable, but students who have the stats to have a reasonable chance of acceptance at W&M are probably not going to want to attend NOVA with the C students from their HS while their friends go off to four-year colleges. If their parents can afford W&M, they can probably afford decent OOS schools where those same stats were qualify the student for scholarships. A kid would have to be really fixated on W&M to want to go to NOVA rather than just letting it go and finding a good fit elsewhere for the same price (or less).

I have yet to come across a single person whose kid actually did the transfer to W&M after two years.
.

Anonymous wrote:I wish I could see stats comparisons within individual counties.

It's out there. The admissions office at UVA provides it. Sorry I'm at the office and can't search, but others here may be able to dig it up. It will show you that some 600+ kids from Fairfax county get accepted every year (including TJ), X from Arlington, X from Winchester, etc. The further west and south you go you will see that sometimes no students are accepted or just one.

Well, NOVA for 2 years and then transfer is the way to go if your DC is from this area then and not in the range of the SHEVE report posted above - sounds much more tenable and less stress inducing.