I'm a liberal and I don't think this is a race/racist issue at all. Parents who want top schools, want top schools. They really don't care if the other children are green as long as they are highly intelligent and academically motivated. They want their children to compete and be influenced by peers who push them forward. From PEW studies the highest scoring races are africans, asians, south asians and then whites followed by african americans and hispanics. I don't think white racists would be too pleased with their kids peers on the spelling bee being black, yellow and brown. Not to mention all of our african, asian and south asian friends prioritized high ranking schools in deciding where to live.

While we may not like the scores, they are reality. It s not accurate to say that scores don't mean anything. Its a measurement and it shows you the general academic capabilities of the class. If your school is a 4 then yes there is a large population of underperforming students in your school.

Here's the problem - there are downsides to being in a public school with a large population of underperforming students. More resources are spent toward getting a larger group of students up to basic levels instead of giving higher performing students more challenging activities. In a high performing school, there can be 2-3 compacted math classes and only one regular math class. In a lower performing school, there may be no compacted math class available for a capable students because there are not enough other students to fill a class. Higher performing students do their homework, answer questions in class, come prepared and aren't disruptive. Many parents believe that having peers with these traits is better for their kids.

what's a "Focus School"?

(Also, since sitting around typing on DCUM doesn't really constitute hard work (though I do sometimes find it hard psychologically to come to terms with the bigotry and hatred), you should definitely exclude all of the parts of Montgomery County with lots of parents in the DCUM demographic.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now it used to be that if you asked around to find out which schools were the whitest, you would get some nasty accusations of racism. Not anymore! Check out GreatSchools, where ratings are nearly 100% correlated with race. The higher the number, the more white kids. The lower the number, the more black and Hispanic kids. It's that easy! And you can still tell your friends "We don't care what color the kids are. We just want the best schools." Everybody wins!


(Yes, of course I'm sarcastic. Not everybody wins. In fact, nearly all neighborhoods lose with such a targeted tool for white-flight. In the meantime, nobody learns anything about each school's principal, class size, facilities, discipline policy, philosophy, class offerings, etc. Just test scores. They're all that matters now. Am I bitter? You bet. People will say I'm just mad my school's rating dropped. Yes I am. This goddamn GreatSchools formula turns the fantastic kids at my local school into a liability -- little anchors weighing down property values. This is wrong.)

You answered your own question.

No one defines "a very good school" by Test Scores alone. So no one pays attention to GreatSchool since it is myopic.

Take a tour of your school, ESPECIALLY if it's an elementary school. Totally different from pre-2013. Hope you like the class schedule. Hope you like the constant MAP tests. Hope you like your teachers and schools tied to the pacing of the slowest of the 60+ ESs. Hope you like Chromebooks "teaching" your 1st grader. Hope you don't mind your kid never learns to write on paper, only keyboarding. Hope you like 1 PE class a week, no fulltime art teacher, no languages, no library books (all on chromebook, yay!).

yeah, a really great school. It's only "great" if you show up not knowing english. THen you get free dental, healthcare, backpacks, meals, counseling, tutoring and babysitting before/after school. Now that's a GREAT escuela. Keep em coming MoCo!

We are at a Focus School that you would probably disdain and I have NO IDEA what you are talking about here. My kids write on paper (and do keyboarding), there is a well-stocked school library with plenty of high level books for my strong readers, 1.5 fulltime art teachers, and aftercare isn't free for anyone, including low income families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I like schools where the parentS are not illiterate, uneducated and unskilled. I value reading, teaching, education, working hard, and building skills. What GreatSchool should I live by?

Well, that's a tough one. If you want a school attended by students whose parents aren't illiterate and unskilled, then you should move to an area where everybody is rich. (If you can afford it.) That's no guarantee that the teachers or administrators at that school will be good, though -- so that doesn't solve your "I value teaching and education" part. For that part, you should look at staff turnover and at schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm. But this in turn creates its own problems, because usually schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm aren't in areas where everybody is rich. And then there are the questions of valuing reading (being able to read is no guarantee of valuing reading), valuing working hard (here I think you'll do best at schools with lots of students whose parents are poor immigrants), and valuing building skills (MCPS only has one vocational high school, unfortunately, but a lot of high schools (for example, Gaithersburg HS) do have skill-based programs). As I said, a tough one!

Pls quantify this? The kids are better behaved, speaking and listening to classmates, pushing for good effort on projects and tests? What norm are you talking about?

Half the immigrant kids at our school are single mothers living with cousins. I just hope they don't get pregnant or drop out before graduating. data isn't pretty here.

Sorry, I guess I should have asked you to clarify WHOSE hard work you valued. The students' (and if so, in class, out of class, or both)? The parents'? The teachers'?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most people prefer racially homogenous schools, though.

Says who?

Not PP, but says decades of social science research on why white people consider 10% kids of color to be the "tipping point."

HOWEVER, just because growing up in a deeply white supremacist society has made white people fear PoC does not mean we should give up on integration. We just need to try harder.

So "most people prefer racially homogeneous schools" actually means "white people prefer schools where most people are white"?

I like schools where the parentS are not illiterate, uneducated and unskilled. I value reading, teaching, education, working hard, and building skills. What GreatSchool should I live by?

Are you aware that children (not parents) are the ones going to school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I like schools where the parentS are not illiterate, uneducated and unskilled. I value reading, teaching, education, working hard, and building skills. What GreatSchool should I live by?

Well, that's a tough one. If you want a school attended by students whose parents aren't illiterate and unskilled, then you should move to an area where everybody is rich. (If you can afford it.) That's no guarantee that the teachers or administrators at that school will be good, though -- so that doesn't solve your "I value teaching and education" part. For that part, you should look at staff turnover and at schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm. But this in turn creates its own problems, because usually schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm aren't in areas where everybody is rich. And then there are the questions of valuing reading (being able to read is no guarantee of valuing reading), valuing working hard (here I think you'll do best at schools with lots of students whose parents are poor immigrants), and valuing building skills (MCPS only has one vocational high school, unfortunately, but a lot of high schools (for example, Gaithersburg HS) do have skill-based programs). As I said, a tough one!

Pls quantify this? The kids are better behaved, speaking and listening to classmates, pushing for good effort on projects and tests? What norm are you talking about?

Half the immigrant kids at our school are single mothers living with cousins. I just hope they don't get pregnant or drop out before graduating. data isn't pretty here.

Anonymous wrote:

I like schools where the parentS are not illiterate, uneducated and unskilled. I value reading, teaching, education, working hard, and building skills. What GreatSchool should I live by?

Well, that's a tough one. If you want a school attended by students whose parents aren't illiterate and unskilled, then you should move to an area where everybody is rich. (If you can afford it.) That's no guarantee that the teachers or administrators at that school will be good, though -- so that doesn't solve your "I value teaching and education" part. For that part, you should look at staff turnover and at schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm. But this in turn creates its own problems, because usually schools where disadvantaged kids do better than the norm aren't in areas where everybody is rich. And then there are the questions of valuing reading (being able to read is no guarantee of valuing reading), valuing working hard (here I think you'll do best at schools with lots of students whose parents are poor immigrants), and valuing building skills (MCPS only has one vocational high school, unfortunately, but a lot of high schools (for example, Gaithersburg HS) do have skill-based programs). As I said, a tough one!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And it's not just white people. Blacks seek out other blacks. Hispanics congregate in communities with other Latinos. Entire neighborhoods spring up around ethnicities, particularly immigrant communities. These people aren't particularly interested in "diversity."

Segregation just naturally happens, like sunrise/sunset and the weather?

It's segregation by education level and SES, not ethnicity or race.

The should we as a county be enabling it? Should we create special academies for rich, for middle class, for poor? If not, why not? Is there some sort of principle here that all children should be able access a quality education?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And it's not just white people. Blacks seek out other blacks. Hispanics congregate in communities with other Latinos. Entire neighborhoods spring up around ethnicities, particularly immigrant communities. These people aren't particularly interested in "diversity."

Segregation just naturally happens, like sunrise/sunset and the weather?

It's segregation by education level and SES, not ethnicity or race.

How do you explain the overlap between SES and ethnicity/race? Purely coincidence?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And it's not just white people. Blacks seek out other blacks. Hispanics congregate in communities with other Latinos. Entire neighborhoods spring up around ethnicities, particularly immigrant communities. These people aren't particularly interested in "diversity."

Segregation just naturally happens, like sunrise/sunset and the weather?

It's segregation by education level and SES, not ethnicity or race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most people prefer racially homogenous schools, though.

Says who?

Not PP, but says decades of social science research on why white people consider 10% kids of color to be the "tipping point."

HOWEVER, just because growing up in a deeply white supremacist society has made white people fear PoC does not mean we should give up on integration. We just need to try harder.

So "most people prefer racially homogeneous schools" actually means "white people prefer schools where most people are white"?

I like schools where the parentS are not illiterate, uneducated and unskilled. I value reading, teaching, education, working hard, and building skills. What GreatSchool should I live by?

Anonymous wrote:Now it used to be that if you asked around to find out which schools were the whitest, you would get some nasty accusations of racism. Not anymore! Check out GreatSchools, where ratings are nearly 100% correlated with race. The higher the number, the more white kids. The lower the number, the more black and Hispanic kids. It's that easy! And you can still tell your friends "We don't care what color the kids are. We just want the best schools." Everybody wins!


(Yes, of course I'm sarcastic. Not everybody wins. In fact, nearly all neighborhoods lose with such a targeted tool for white-flight. In the meantime, nobody learns anything about each school's principal, class size, facilities, discipline policy, philosophy, class offerings, etc. Just test scores. They're all that matters now. Am I bitter? You bet. People will say I'm just mad my school's rating dropped. Yes I am. This goddamn GreatSchools formula turns the fantastic kids at my local school into a liability -- little anchors weighing down property values. This is wrong.)

You answered your own question.

No one defines "a very good school" by Test Scores alone. So no one pays attention to GreatSchool since it is myopic.

Take a tour of your school, ESPECIALLY if it's an elementary school. Totally different from pre-2013. Hope you like the class schedule. Hope you like the constant MAP tests. Hope you like your teachers and schools tied to the pacing of the slowest of the 60+ ESs. Hope you like Chromebooks "teaching" your 1st grader. Hope you don't mind your kid never learns to write on paper, only keyboarding. Hope you like 1 PE class a week, no fulltime art teacher, no languages, no library books (all on chromebook, yay!).

yeah, a really great school. It's only "great" if you show up not knowing english. THen you get free dental, healthcare, backpacks, meals, counseling, tutoring and babysitting before/after school. Now that's a GREAT escuela. Keep em coming MoCo!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most people prefer racially homogenous schools, though.

Says who?

Not PP, but says decades of social science research on why white people consider 10% kids of color to be the "tipping point."

HOWEVER, just because growing up in a deeply white supremacist society has made white people fear PoC does not mean we should give up on integration. We just need to try harder.

I must be an outlier then -- our school is 30% white.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And it's not just white people. Blacks seek out other blacks. Hispanics congregate in communities with other Latinos. Entire neighborhoods spring up around ethnicities, particularly immigrant communities. These people aren't particularly interested in "diversity."

Segregation just naturally happens, like sunrise/sunset and the weather?

Birds of a feather, flock together. That saying didn't come out of nowhere. People want to be around people who are like them. That's a fundamental aspect of human nature. This current quest for "diversity" is a bit of a one-off in human history.

the only people obsessed with diversity are DCUM white liberals with too much time on their hands. If their school actually got any type of SES diversity they would be out of there in an instant such bs lolz.

Yup.

This Latina certainly checked GS before deciding where to live.

According to the posters above, birds of a feather flock together. So I assume you checked GS to find schools that had lots of Latinos in them, right? Because people should be with others like themselves?

If not -- if you checked GS for schools with high scores -- then you are NOT agreeing with these posters' claims that we all should stick with our own. You are arguing that everyone should have access to good schools. Which is the point the OP is making.