Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But many of us US citizens don’t want the government siezing our land for a stupid, low tech, wall.

Then, with open borders, Dreamers have nothing to worry about..........they can come and go as they please. You do understand that is what you are saying. With no secure border, people will just keep coming. Do we give them all amnesty?

The overwhelming majority of illegals are here because of overstayed visas. The wall won't stop that. Yes, there are a handful of people who survive illegal crossing by foot or in the back of a truck, but that isn't the problem. A wall doesn't address the main issue. It is an expensive and symbolic gesture, one even Trump knows is a crock

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/you-cannot-say-that-to-the-press-trump-urged-mexican-president-to-end-his-public-defiance-on-border-wall-transcript-reveals/2017/08/03/0c2c0a4e-7610-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html

So if the President who campaigned on it knows its a crock, why are Trump supporters still pushing it?

Hundreds of thousands attempt to cross the southern boarder every year. You and I have a VERY different definition of "a handful".

If you people are so bent out of shape about this, can you PLEASE learn the difference between “border” and “boarder”? They are two different words. TIA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schumer is posturing after the backlash he got from the left wing and the Hispanic caucus.

The optics of shutting the government to grant amnesty to illegals will not sell well in much of America other than the left wing.

Huge majority of Americans want Dreamers to stay in US: poll
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/huge-majority-of-americans-want-dreamers-to-stay-in-us-poll/

The issue is not whether the Dreamers should be allowed to stay in the US - it seems that all sides are generally supportive of it. The question is whether shutting down the government as a response to legislation not being passed has support.

It wasn't in response to legislation not being passed. It was in response to legislation not even being considered. Big difference.

Same response applies: because Congress will not even consider bringing legislation to the floor, is not grounds to shut down the government. Democrats need to win elections and control Congress and then they can bring any legislation to the floor for consideration though it does not assure that it will not be vetoed. No different than when Congress was controlled by the Republicans and they would vote to repeal Obamacare and Obama would then veto it.

Why doesn't GOP win elections gets a filibuster proof majority to pass the CR next time. That would work. Is this what you want PP, a one party rule so that we move the farthest extreme possible?

Our system is one that creates multiple obstacles to prevent what you correctly point is a risk. My point is that because one cannot get legislation through does not argue for bringing the whole government to a halt especially on an issue that is not directly linked to spending.

Robert Costa, who is a journalist I respect for having some balance in his reporting, point out the hazards of linking DACA to a shutdown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/why-the-democrats-lost-their-nerve-in-the-shutdown-battle/2018/01/22/8b2bd512-ffaa-11e7-bb03-722769454f82_story.html?utm_term=.c15658140a7a

When not just divvy up ~ 16 billion and pay all the non-contributors to move home like Israel is doing with the Africans? Then dedicate 2 billion to additional ICE agents and put military on the border to make sure they don't come back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody thinks this wall is a good idea, especially if US taxpayer dollars are paying for it. So the next confrontation can be over the wall--which will be less politically sensitive for the swing state Dems than DACA. Smart!

The wall was the cornerstone of Trump's campaign from day one. He was elected in part from this promise. There are millions upon millions that think it is a good idea. His downside with his base is tremendous if he does not build it. He will.

There are also millions upon millions who seriously think the earth is flat. it doesn't make them right.

Link?

My bad, it wasn't earth is flat, it was earth revolves around sun

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/imageo/2014/02/17/1-in-4-americans-believe-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

Doesn't change the point.

Never heard of the flat earth society?

Yep, it's a thing and you'd be surprised at how many members they have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schumer is posturing after the backlash he got from the left wing and the Hispanic caucus.

The optics of shutting the government to grant amnesty to illegals will not sell well in much of America other than the left wing.

Huge majority of Americans want Dreamers to stay in US: poll
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/huge-majority-of-americans-want-dreamers-to-stay-in-us-poll/

The issue is not whether the Dreamers should be allowed to stay in the US - it seems that all sides are generally supportive of it. The question is whether shutting down the government as a response to legislation not being passed has support.

It wasn't in response to legislation not being passed. It was in response to legislation not even being considered. Big difference.

Same response applies: because Congress will not even consider bringing legislation to the floor, is not grounds to shut down the government. Democrats need to win elections and control Congress and then they can bring any legislation to the floor for consideration though it does not assure that it will not be vetoed. No different than when Congress was controlled by the Republicans and they would vote to repeal Obamacare and Obama would then veto it.

Why doesn't GOP win elections gets a filibuster proof majority to pass the CR next time. That would work. Is this what you want PP, a one party rule so that we move the farthest extreme possible?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody thinks this wall is a good idea, especially if US taxpayer dollars are paying for it. So the next confrontation can be over the wall--which will be less politically sensitive for the swing state Dems than DACA. Smart!

The wall was the cornerstone of Trump's campaign from day one. He was elected in part from this promise. There are millions upon millions that think it is a good idea. His downside with his base is tremendous if he does not build it. He will.

There are also millions upon millions who seriously think the earth is flat. it doesn't make them right.

Link?

My bad, it wasn't earth is flat, it was earth revolves around sun

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/imageo/2014/02/17/1-in-4-americans-believe-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

Doesn't change the point.

I beginning to think you are the dumbass in this discussion, not those favoring the wall. The Earth does revolve around the Sun. That's 0 for 2. Wanna try again?

DP. Insert that guy sliding down his black ice driveway here because...BOOM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schumer is posturing after the backlash he got from the left wing and the Hispanic caucus.

The optics of shutting the government to grant amnesty to illegals will not sell well in much of America other than the left wing.

Huge majority of Americans want Dreamers to stay in US: poll
https://nypost.com/2018/01/11/huge-majority-of-americans-want-dreamers-to-stay-in-us-poll/

The issue is not whether the Dreamers should be allowed to stay in the US - it seems that all sides are generally supportive of it. The question is whether shutting down the government as a response to legislation not being passed has support.

It wasn't in response to legislation not being passed. It was in response to legislation not even being considered. Big difference.

Same response applies: because Congress will not even consider bringing legislation to the floor, is not grounds to shut down the government. Democrats need to win elections and control Congress and then they can bring any legislation to the floor for consideration though it does not assure that it will not be vetoed. No different than when Congress was controlled by the Republicans and they would vote to repeal Obamacare and Obama would then veto it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody thinks this wall is a good idea, especially if US taxpayer dollars are paying for it. So the next confrontation can be over the wall--which will be less politically sensitive for the swing state Dems than DACA. Smart!

The wall was the cornerstone of Trump's campaign from day one. He was elected in part from this promise. There are millions upon millions that think it is a good idea. His downside with his base is tremendous if he does not build it. He will.

There are also millions upon millions who seriously think the earth is flat. it doesn't make them right.

Link?

My bad, it wasn't earth is flat, it was earth revolves around sun

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/imageo/2014/02/17/1-in-4-americans-believe-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/

Doesn't change the point.

I beginning to think you are the dumbass in this discussion, not those favoring the wall. The Earth does revolve around the Sun. That's 0 for 2. Wanna try again?

1 in 4 American believe the Sun Revolves around the Earth

The point stands.

t-rump promised many, many times that Mexico would pay for wall. Impeach him for lying. NO WALL UNLESS MEXICO PAYS IN ADVANCE!

Anonymous wrote:

But many of us US citizens don’t want the government siezing our land for a stupid, low tech, wall.

Then, with open borders, Dreamers have nothing to worry about..........they can come and go as they please. You do understand that is what you are saying. With no secure border, people will just keep coming. Do we give them all amnesty?

Here are actual stats on illegal immigrants ...



The share of illegal immigrants from Mexico is about what it was in 1970. No wall is needed to discourage illegal immigration via Mexico. The wall is just a stupid Trump boondoggle.

If you really want to deal with illegal immigration to the US, you need to do two things (1) focus on other countries and other points of entry, such as overstays on visas, and (2) figure out a way to address the 11 million illegal immigrants already in the United States. The number of new arrivals is a relatively small piece of the puzzle; the ones that are already here is much bigger. People just need to decide whether they want to try to find and deport them all, or grant them all citizenship, or just ignore them, or do some combination that's logical and differentiates the productive ones from the unproductive ones (my choice).

I know it's much more fun to rant and rave about the politics of illegal immigration, untethered by actual facts. But if you actually want to address the issue smartly, there are better ways to do that.

- moderate