Anonymous wrote:Potential spoiler alert here, so don't read this particular post if you plan to see the movie:

NP here. Just saw the movie and had to chime in. At the time of the occurance, I thought Harding was 100% guilty. The movie (if you choose to see it, I understand if you do not) is convincing, in making Harding seem to perhaps not know about the exact plan.

If you tend to root for the underdog, you will like this movie, and how it was done.

I have to chime in about whether you could "tell" about "class" at the time. Truth is, you would have had to be blind to not have been on team Nancy when this whole thing happened. There was no doubt that Tonya was raised in a broken home (or whatever you choose to call it); and yes, you could actually tell by looking at them. They were judged by how they carried themselves, however inaccurate (turns out, as we now know, Kerrigan's life was far from perfect). In retrospect, it is hard not to be on Team Tonya now, having seen things play out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which skater would have gone to the Olympics if Tonya Harding had been booted off the team right away?

Because that is the person who really got cheated. I wish that they had gotten the opportunity to skate in the Olympics in place of Harding that year.

Elaine Zayak finished 4th at the 1994 U.S. Championships and was named an alternate for the Olympic Games.

Elaine Zayak was robbed then. Where is her movie?

Actually, it was then 13 year old Michelle Kwan who was in line and the alternate at the 1994 games. During the 1994 Olympics, the US could only send 2 women. During the 1994 US Championships, Tonya placed 1st, Michelle placed 2nd. Michelle became an alternate because they gave the spot to Nancy, who couldn't compete because she was still injured from what transpired.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which skater would have gone to the Olympics if Tonya Harding had been booted off the team right away?

Because that is the person who really got cheated. I wish that they had gotten the opportunity to skate in the Olympics in place of Harding that year.

Elaine Zayak finished 4th at the 1994 U.S. Championships and was named an alternate for the Olympic Games.

Elaine Zayak was robbed then. Where is her movie?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie was great, and I personally don't think Tonya knew the guy was going to physically hurt Nancy Kerrigan. Harding had a crazy life and I find her sympathetic.

The movie wants her to be portrayed as the victim. It was a movie that is not set in reality of the actual events. Plenty of people have crappy lives and would not contribute to the assault of another human being. Hollywood movies manipulate the facts, your brain while they take in the cash.

I think how some people like you are so bizarrely emphatic even years later that nothing about her life and situation can generate empathy. I feel like its so like...it was such an encapsulation of how we (American's) view the world.

Nancy was this good traditional hardworking elegant girl, and got the whole country behind her. And Tonya was a tough, poor, arguably far more hardworking considering what she was overcoming, crass girl who never learned how to be a good person but who wanted a different life for herself and fell victim to the habits her crappy life instilled in her. Nancy was always going to be fine. In another life she may or may not have won the gold but no matter what she was going to be fine. Tonya needed that gold to escape, so she behaved badly. And was very very thoroughly punished for it. And still 30 years later people are unable to find empathy (which is not the same as forgiveness or acceptance) for her. Its amazing to me.

I absolutely do not get where you are coming from. And please do stop trying to school people on sympathy vs empathy- yeah, yeah, we learned those definitions in grade school. There's more of a problem with you crowing your empathy than with us not having enough.

She had someone assaulted. You are calling this "behaved badly"? Does it somehow give you less empathy for Kerrigan because her leg wasn't fractured and was able to function well enough for her to take part in the Olympics? The PTSD alone that a person could have after an event like that could scar a person for life. The pain this caused her family, the other skater who played by the rules and didn't make it to the Olympics, other athletes who have endured hellish upbringings/training to be elite- and still follow societal rules-I have empathy for all of them. And if someone did this to you, I would have enough empathy to call this more than 'behaving badly'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie was great, and I personally don't think Tonya knew the guy was going to physically hurt Nancy Kerrigan. Harding had a crazy life and I find her sympathetic.

The movie wants her to be portrayed as the victim. It was a movie that is not set in reality of the actual events. Plenty of people have crappy lives and would not contribute to the assault of another human being. Hollywood movies manipulate the facts, your brain while they take in the cash.

I think how some people like you are so bizarrely emphatic even years later that nothing about her life and situation can generate empathy. I feel like its so like...it was such an encapsulation of how we (American's) view the world.

Nancy was this good traditional hardworking elegant girl, and got the whole country behind her. And Tonya was a tough, poor, arguably far more hardworking considering what she was overcoming, crass girl who never learned how to be a good person but who wanted a different life for herself and fell victim to the habits her crappy life instilled in her. Nancy was always going to be fine. In another life she may or may not have won the gold but no matter what she was going to be fine. Tonya needed that gold to escape, so she behaved badly. And was very very thoroughly punished for it. And still 30 years later people are unable to find empathy (which is not the same as forgiveness or acceptance) for her. Its amazing to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which skater would have gone to the Olympics if Tonya Harding had been booted off the team right away?

Because that is the person who really got cheated. I wish that they had gotten the opportunity to skate in the Olympics in place of Harding that year.

Elaine Zayak finished 4th at the 1994 U.S. Championships and was named an alternate for the Olympic Games.

Elaine Zayak was robbed then. Where is her movie?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which skater would have gone to the Olympics if Tonya Harding had been booted off the team right away?

Because that is the person who really got cheated. I wish that they had gotten the opportunity to skate in the Olympics in place of Harding that year.

Elaine Zayak finished 4th at the 1994 U.S. Championships and was named an alternate for the Olympic Games.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie was great, and I personally don't think Tonya knew the guy was going to physically hurt Nancy Kerrigan. Harding had a crazy life and I find her sympathetic.

The movie wants her to be portrayed as the victim. It was a movie that is not set in reality of the actual events. Plenty of people have crappy lives and would not contribute to the assault of another human being. Hollywood movies manipulate the facts, your brain while they take in the cash.

I think how some people like you are so bizarrely emphatic even years later that nothing about her life and situation can generate empathy. I feel like its so like...it was such an encapsulation of how we (American's) view the world.

Nancy was this good traditional hardworking elegant girl, and got the whole country behind her. And Tonya was a tough, poor, arguably far more hardworking considering what she was overcoming, crass girl who never learned how to be a good person but who wanted a different life for herself and fell victim to the habits her crappy life instilled in her. Nancy was always going to be fine. In another life she may or may not have won the gold but no matter what she was going to be fine. Tonya needed that gold to escape, so she behaved badly. And was very very thoroughly punished for it. And still 30 years later people are unable to find empathy (which is not the same as forgiveness or acceptance) for her. Its amazing to me.

Tonya chose to fight dirty. No one made her to that, she chose to do that. No one hates Tonya Harding for being poor, no one hates her for not having the best skating outfits that money can buy. People dislike Tonya Harding because she chose to fight dirty. When her goons tried to break Nancy Kerrigan's leg in order to give Harding a leg up (no pun intended) - that was just incredibly and blatantly wrong on so many levels. Just think for a second who Harding was representing at the Olympics.....Was it herself? Was it her ex husband or the hit man? Was she there to say a big FU to her crappy mother? No.

She was there to represent the USA and skate on our country's behalf. If she had just done that and not attacked and eliminate her fellow American teammate maybe things would have gone a bit better for her.

No sympathy. None.

They hated her for all of those things before she chose to fight dirty. And that made hating her after much easier and more satisfying. She fought dirty because the country and her life had told her that the only person looking out for her was herself. And while what she did was wrong, she was right about that. No one was on Tonya's side except Tonya even BEFORE this happened.

You ask who she was representing at the Olympics and that shows a fundamental misunderstanding of people in her position. She was absolutely representing herself, her only chance. That gold medal wasn't for honor/glory, it was going to be freedom.

And once again I never said sympathy, I said empathy. They aren't the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know which skater would have gone to the Olympics if Tonya Harding had been booted off the team right away?

Because that is the person who really got cheated. I wish that they had gotten the opportunity to skate in the Olympics in place of Harding that year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie was great, and I personally don't think Tonya knew the guy was going to physically hurt Nancy Kerrigan. Harding had a crazy life and I find her sympathetic.

The movie wants her to be portrayed as the victim. It was a movie that is not set in reality of the actual events. Plenty of people have crappy lives and would not contribute to the assault of another human being. Hollywood movies manipulate the facts, your brain while they take in the cash.

I think how some people like you are so bizarrely emphatic even years later that nothing about her life and situation can generate empathy. I feel like its so like...it was such an encapsulation of how we (American's) view the world.

Nancy was this good traditional hardworking elegant girl, and got the whole country behind her. And Tonya was a tough, poor, arguably far more hardworking considering what she was overcoming, crass girl who never learned how to be a good person but who wanted a different life for herself and fell victim to the habits her crappy life instilled in her. Nancy was always going to be fine. In another life she may or may not have won the gold but no matter what she was going to be fine. Tonya needed that gold to escape, so she behaved badly. And was very very thoroughly punished for it. And still 30 years later people are unable to find empathy (which is not the same as forgiveness or acceptance) for her. Its amazing to me.

Tonya chose to fight dirty. No one made her to that, she chose to do that. No one hates Tonya Harding for being poor, no one hates her for not having the best skating outfits that money can buy. People dislike Tonya Harding because she chose to fight dirty. When her goons tried to break Nancy Kerrigan's leg in order to give Harding a leg up (no pun intended) - that was just incredibly and blatantly wrong on so many levels. Just think for a second who Harding was representing at the Olympics.....Was it herself? Was it her ex husband or the hit man? Was she there to say a big FU to her crappy mother? No.

She was there to represent the USA and skate on our country's behalf. If she had just done that and not attacked and eliminate her fellow American teammate maybe things would have gone a bit better for her.

No sympathy. None.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not one of you remembers Tonya's lousy start of her routine and then her fake claim that her "laces broke"? Or Tonya's involvement in "America's Dumbest ___"? This is not a person to praise.

+1

Yes. I remember the lace thing vividly. Her leg on the wall, her face screwed up. It was embarrassing.

Even she knew that she had no business being there.

OK, skating obsessives like me will correct you on this point: Tonya ROUTINELY did break laces because of the torque involved in hitting the big jumps she hit. You can see for yourself how she describes breaking a lace in the middle of one of her Skate America wins--when she's in the Kiss and Cry area (area where you await your scores and talk with your coaches), she marvels at the fact that she was able to land jumps after breaking a lace mid-program. She broke it on a triple flip, I believe, and was able to go on and land like three more jumps.

So yes, it was crazy, and ill-timed, but anyone who had followed Tonya's career knew that she had a habit of breaking laces with her huge jumps.

Rewatch the video of her skating before that lace break. There were no big jumps causing that lace to break. She skated out onto the ice and aborted an attempted jump. She skated a little more and then she skated over to the judges box crying. It was not obvious at all what the hell had happened to her.

You do realize they do a warm-up, with jumps, before they go on, right? Six at a time: warm up, six performances, next group.