Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Sorry but the DC average is a very low bar, and "on track to graduate" means very little until they actually do. The later years of college are where things go awry.

DC average may be a low bar, but which is a better options? EOTR DCPS or KIPP? You tell me. Because Wilson (the only DCPS high school worth considering) is PART OF that "low bar", and all the other high schools are CRAP. Not to mention, KIPP's stats include all their MIDDLE SCHOOL grads (I know because I'm a parent and know the people at HQ who work the stats), not just the graduates of the KIPP high school.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that its the later years of college where things go awry, I think its freshmen year most of the time.

Personally, we chose EOTR DCPS. It's equally high poverty but the atmosphere is different from our nearby KIPPs. For middle school, I would probably choose Stuart-Hobson or Eliot-Hine or possibly MacFarland, but that's so long from now, it's hard to say.

Well, my son at a KIPP west of the river. The atmosphere is lovely, the kids are great, and the education is far superior to EOTR DCPS (and yes, I live EOTR).

We don't have a ton of time before high school - and I don't anticipate any of the EOTR high schools to be even half acceptable by then. Eastern definitely won't be. Some of the application only schools might be, but I don't know much about how the process works and I fear that my child would get passed over (despite high test scores) and then we'd be trapped at HD Woodson.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Sorry but the DC average is a very low bar, and "on track to graduate" means very little until they actually do. The later years of college are where things go awry.

DC average may be a low bar, but which is a better options? EOTR DCPS or KIPP? You tell me. Because Wilson (the only DCPS high school worth considering) is PART OF that "low bar", and all the other high schools are CRAP. Not to mention, KIPP's stats include all their MIDDLE SCHOOL grads (I know because I'm a parent and know the people at HQ who work the stats), not just the graduates of the KIPP high school.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that its the later years of college where things go awry, I think its freshmen year most of the time.

And also, I would happily choose Banneker, Ellington, Walls, and McKinley, and I'm keeping a eye on Coolidge and Eastern. Who knows how things will shake out. But Wilson is far from the only acceptable school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Sorry but the DC average is a very low bar, and "on track to graduate" means very little until they actually do. The later years of college are where things go awry.

DC average may be a low bar, but which is a better options? EOTR DCPS or KIPP? You tell me. Because Wilson (the only DCPS high school worth considering) is PART OF that "low bar", and all the other high schools are CRAP. Not to mention, KIPP's stats include all their MIDDLE SCHOOL grads (I know because I'm a parent and know the people at HQ who work the stats), not just the graduates of the KIPP high school.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that its the later years of college where things go awry, I think its freshmen year most of the time.

Personally, we chose EOTR DCPS. It's equally high poverty but the atmosphere is different from our nearby KIPPs. For middle school, I would probably choose Stuart-Hobson or Eliot-Hine or possibly MacFarland, but that's so long from now, it's hard to say.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Sorry but the DC average is a very low bar, and "on track to graduate" means very little until they actually do. The later years of college are where things go awry.

DC average may be a low bar, but which is a better options? EOTR DCPS or KIPP? You tell me. Because Wilson (the only DCPS high school worth considering) is PART OF that "low bar", and all the other high schools are CRAP. Not to mention, KIPP's stats include all their MIDDLE SCHOOL grads (I know because I'm a parent and know the people at HQ who work the stats), not just the graduates of the KIPP high school.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that its the later years of college where things go awry, I think its freshmen year most of the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Sorry but the DC average is a very low bar, and "on track to graduate" means very little until they actually do. The later years of college are where things go awry.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Agreed on bureaucrats not wanting to spend the money for low income kids. So then I'll take the voucher so my kid can actually safely go to school somewhere.

It's actually the voting public that doesn't support the spending.

omg how much more spending do you need. DC spends an insane amount on education and gets almost nothing back, you know why

It starts with the parents/culture. When too many people don't value that, no amount of spending is going to fix this underlying problem

OK, so gimme the voucher. Fixing DCPS is useless and people deserve a safe place for their children to learn.

The research is quite clear that vouchers and charters don't really enhance student achievement. Sure KIPp gets high test scores, but their graduates really underperform their high test scores when it comes to college completion. When you control for family income, private schools do little for upper middle class kids. Please read the last billion or so peer reviewed studies.

DCPS schools like Janney easily outperform a lot of schools in the suburbs.

Actually, KIPP graduates do better in college than DCPS graduates.

http://www.kippdc.org/about/results-impact/

"Our students are matriculating to college at nearly twice the D.C. average and our alumni are on track to graduate at five times the D.C. average."

Is it a perfect school? No, of course not. Those don't exist though.

Congratulations, this is probably the most disgusting thing I have read on here.

"Just as I no more mix with the janitorial or mail room staff what do my kids gain from having a surge of kids looking for handouts populate their school?"

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.[/quote]

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

[/quote]

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?[/quote]

Well I am bucking the trend and moving my 4th grader from private to our EotP elementary. We are looking forward to it![/quote]

I don’t care about racial diversity but I do care about SES mixing. I am not onboard with thinking it is a basic value add to middle and upper class kids. Just as I no more mix with the janitorial or mail room staff what do my kids gain from having a surge of kids looking for handouts populate their school? Truth is poverty is contagious and I would hate for my kids to pick up habits, vernacular or standards from kids with lower expectations out of life. The top is already hard enough.

I get why putting poor kids in a rich school helps them just as dropping a homeless person in a rich restaurant will most often result in them getting a good meal, a little bit of rich guilt placation and general push back out the door. Thing is there are way too many poor people to feed and if it becomes a habit the rich will stop coming. There simply has to be havens for higher SES kids be they public and private. If one gets brkoen up another will emerge because the best part of being rich is options.



[/quote]


I am not sure why you posting this? If you have a fear of poor people then send your kids to private. I grew up poor but am not anymore so I am not sure what you’re trying to argue.[/quote]

I do and your are the exception not the rule, policy should be built around the rules.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.[/quote]

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

[/quote]

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?[/quote]

Well I am bucking the trend and moving my 4th grader from private to our EotP elementary. We are looking forward to it![/quote]

I don’t care about racial diversity but I do care about SES mixing. I am not onboard with thinking it is a basic value add to middle and upper class kids. Just as I no more mix with the janitorial or mail room staff what do my kids gain from having a surge of kids looking for handouts populate their school? Truth is poverty is contagious and I would hate for my kids to pick up habits, vernacular or standards from kids with lower expectations out of life. The top is already hard enough.

I get why putting poor kids in a rich school helps them just as dropping a homeless person in a rich restaurant will most often result in them getting a good meal, a little bit of rich guilt placation and general push back out the door. Thing is there are way too many poor people to feed and if it becomes a habit the rich will stop coming. There simply has to be havens for higher SES kids be they public and private. If one gets brkoen up another will emerge because the best part of being rich is options.



[/quote]


I am not sure why you posting this? If you have a fear of poor people then send your kids to private. I grew up poor but am not anymore so I am not sure what you’re trying to argue.

I was one of the few white children in my own elementary school, not to mention the only Jewish child. My step-mother is African American. It was a critical formative/educational experience - but it was sometimes very lonely. My nieces who are half-Mexican are in all-white school where children target them with Trump-like racist rhetoric. The desire for parents to want their children to be in a racially diverse environment - yet not be the only ones is normal - this seems to be one of the reasons that Jack and Jill was founded, for high SES AA children going to largely white schools to have some community. Children can be very cruel - particularly in middle school. Not wanting your children to be "the other" is not necessarily borne of internalized racism. I would like my children to be in a school of mixed SES, and mixed ethnic diversity period. I don't want to send my kids to private school. Our IB elementary is almost 100% OOB, African American and 100% FARMS, despite the fact we live in a diverse (ethinic/SES) neighborhood. Our middle/high school is awful. If the middle school/high school track does not approve, we are sending our kids to JPDS in the 5th/6th grade or moving to Takoma Park. I would rather they walk to school in their own neighborhood. We have lived in the city for 20 years. We don't want to leave, but we're not willing to place our societal ideals above emotional well-being/academic success of our kids.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.[/quote]

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

[/quote]

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?[/quote]

Well I am bucking the trend and moving my 4th grader from private to our EotP elementary. We are looking forward to it![/quote]

I don’t care about racial diversity but I do care about SES mixing. I am not onboard with thinking it is a basic value add to middle and upper class kids. Just as I no more mix with the janitorial or mail room staff what do my kids gain from having a surge of kids looking for handouts populate their school? Truth is poverty is contagious and I would hate for my kids to pick up habits, vernacular or standards from kids with lower expectations out of life. The top is already hard enough.

I get why putting poor kids in a rich school helps them just as dropping a homeless person in a rich restaurant will most often result in them getting a good meal, a little bit of rich guilt placation and general push back out the door. Thing is there are way too many poor people to feed and if it becomes a habit the rich will stop coming. There simply has to be havens for higher SES kids be they public and private. If one gets brkoen up another will emerge because the best part of being rich is options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?

Well I am bucking the trend and moving my 4th grader from private to our EotP elementary. We are looking forward to it!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?

It's more that the absence of white (or Asian or South Asian) kids correlates tightly with long-term school quality. Higher-income AA participation is an even more sensitive indicator, in my experience. In the absence of a quality middle school, folks who can transport their kids to something else just aren't going to stick around. We are trying to make it work at our EOTP elementary, and the school has some great things going for it, but I can see the writing on the wall even in PK4. Everyone is bailing because of middle school.

If a school had high-performing kids and a good middle school, I would be there regardless of the racial composition. But that doesn't seem to happen in DC.

For the last time this is not about race its about SES. Since DCPS is over 80% low SES there is no optimal solution. The best you can hope for is protecting high SES nieghborhood elementary schools and working towards protecting getting to a decent chunk of highers SES in a pyramid via Wilson. I agree the middle school issue is a problem and thats for everyone not just high SES. For the middle school issue you need more application/magnet middle schools.

And to summerize it all why aren't more higher SES AA kids going to Banneker. Its SES not Race

It's the performance. McKinley Tech is 100% FARMS, 87% AA and 9% Hispanic/Latino. But I would happily send DD there if she wanted to go, because the school overperforms the SES of the kids. The test scores are going up and the school exceeds the district average already, and it's going to be a lot better by the time she's old enough. I would be delighted for DD to experience a high-performing school that is diverse, hopefully even to be out-performed by kids with less of life's advantages. That's what I want for her. I'm fine with PTA funds going primarily to meet the needs of low-income kids. But the thing is, I'm not going to sit around at Noyes and Brookland Middle for 8 more years on the mere hope that she gets in to McKinley Tech and is math-y enough to go.

Middle school needs a comprehensive overhaul with each kid getting their own individualized academic remediation plan. How you afford the staff for this, I don't know. But if middle school were better, the elementaries would retain kids, and high school performance would improve because the 9th graders wouldn't come in so far behind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?

It's more that the absence of white (or Asian or South Asian) kids correlates tightly with long-term school quality. Higher-income AA participation is an even more sensitive indicator, in my experience. In the absence of a quality middle school, folks who can transport their kids to something else just aren't going to stick around. We are trying to make it work at our EOTP elementary, and the school has some great things going for it, but I can see the writing on the wall even in PK4. Everyone is bailing because of middle school.

If a school had high-performing kids and a good middle school, I would be there regardless of the racial composition. But that doesn't seem to happen in DC.

For the last time this is not about race its about SES. Since DCPS is over 80% low SES there is no optimal solution. The best you can hope for is protecting high SES nieghborhood elementary schools and working towards protecting getting to a decent chunk of highers SES in a pyramid via Wilson. I agree the middle school issue is a problem and thats for everyone not just high SES. For the middle school issue you need more application/magnet middle schools.

And to summerize it all why aren't more higher SES AA kids going to Banneker. Its SES not Race

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems like this forum has seen a lot of visits from the ghost of DCPS past. Gimme the voucher or Wilson or we’re all moving to NoVa or St Albans while dumping on EOTP schools and telling black kids to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Or maybe somebody’s just bored at Mar a Lago.

Seriously. It's really disheartening to read this thread as a black parent. Not surprising, but disheartening. I'm glad to see not everyone here thinks like this.

Another black parent here, disappointed too but not surprised. I feel most white parents aren’t comfortable with their children being one or few white children beyond early childhood classes. Despite a diversity push, this area and its schools are very segregated. What is a safe racial balance for everyone to be happy, safe and adequately educated?

It's more that the absence of white (or Asian or South Asian) kids correlates tightly with long-term school quality. Higher-income AA participation is an even more sensitive indicator, in my experience. In the absence of a quality middle school, folks who can transport their kids to something else just aren't going to stick around. We are trying to make it work at our EOTP elementary, and the school has some great things going for it, but I can see the writing on the wall even in PK4. Everyone is bailing because of middle school.

If a school had high-performing kids and a good middle school, I would be there regardless of the racial composition. But that doesn't seem to happen in DC.