*repost

This is important information. My friend just reposted this from her friend, and I am glad she thought enough to reticulate it. It applies to boys AND girls, and it especially applies to parents. It includes very pertinent, but broad parameters that hold true across genders and ages (and cultures!), and for those of us who have a hard time "letting go" as much as we should:

https://foreverymom.com/family-parenting/what-middle-school-girls-need-to-know-about-friendship-kari-kampakis/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of exclusion or random meanness hailing in the 5th grade at my daughter’s school. It started with kids being label as popular. How does that happen in ES? Apparently, those girls, “like to gossip and talk to boys a lot.” I’m not sure what that even means as I heard it from another girl. Then, some girls started finding ways to have lunch outside the cafeteria, but act secretive about it when asked. I’m not talking about a lunch club with the guidance counselor. They were using it to be exclusive. The teachers shut down one of their lunch clubs, but it doesn’t seem to have gone away. Just recently, my daughter’s BFF came up to her with and ther girl and said things meant to hurt her feelings and exclude her. I tried to figure out if there was a trigger, but it seems just random. WTH is going on? What is my roll and how do I help my daughter navigate what seems to be a much more complicated social world?

Yes, it happens. Some of the girls are precocious with puberty or whatever and some just have older sisters.

You help your daughter by telling her to find her people and be confident in her own skin. Easier said than done, but... Also, you cannot control what others do. The more you understand that, the easier life is.

x10000

THIS.

THIS.

THIS.

Parents, take note!

*corrections:
not with
mommy or daddy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

+1

To many parents, living vicariously, try to force friendships on behalf of their children (who have long since been old enough to make their own social arrangements). Back off, control freak parents -- you are helping no one, least of all, your own children.

It's easier said than done.
Despite the encouragement from a parent, a girl may continue to seek and pursue a friendship with former friends who are popular even if they no longer have anything in common with those friends. It can be a hard lesson for some girls and it's just experience and nothing else that they will ultimately learn from.

I agree with PP. My MS DS hasn't accepted that some of the boys who he grew up with are too popular/cool (whatever you want to call it) for him now and they tend to exclude him. We've encouraged him to look for a more welcoming tribe, but can't force him to do so and it makes for some hard lessons (both for him and us).

+1

Good on you for realizing and hopefully stepping back, to let him navigate his own social situation. You are a great parent for giving him the space he needs. NOW is the time for him to learn this - with your guidance, but with NOT your control (no crazy phone calls or emails or or meetings or navigation from mommy - you would be surprised at how inept parents go off the deep end - to their teens detriment), NOT when he is struggling much later!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't true of ALL girls. Your daughter needs to be looking for higher quality friends. The kids in music and theater seem to have less of this. Popular doesn't mean well liked, it just means well known. The best lesson she can learn is if someone doesn't treat her well then they are out of her life.

agree. your daughters friends are low quality. it's best to get rid of them now and never look back. they sound toxic and a waste of time. so many better girls out there to be friends with.

p.s. sorry to say, she will likely experience this behavior in the workplace when she is starting out. I feel sorry for these girls and women.

x10000

There will always be toxic people. Learn how to navigate them, instead of creating a situation that will blow up in your child's face.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

+1

To many parents, living vicariously, try to force friendships on behalf of their children (who have long since been old enough to make their own social arrangements). Back off, control freak parents -- you are helping no one, least of all, your own children.

It's easier said than done.
Despite the encouragement from a parent, a girl may continue to seek and pursue a friendship with former friends who are popular even if they no longer have anything in common with those friends. It can be a hard lesson for some girls and it's just experience and nothing else that they will ultimately learn from.

+1

PP here. Agree completely. This is true of both boys and girls - teens change friends constantly. The best gift you can give your teen is the ability to move on to friends that actually want them around (and not persist or single out people). That is, once a teen outgrows a friend, let them move on, don't try to force a friendship where there is no longer a friendship. Who knows, friends sometimes cross paths/come around again (sometimes after weeks or months or years - which is fine) - but if the you, the parent, interferes with teen friendships - you stunt the teens social growth and ability to maneuver socially. I have seen situations where parents actually step in (with teens!!), thinking they are helping their child, when in fact, they are hurting their child. Your child needs to be able to manage with what they have, that is the greatest gift you can give them. I live in an area where parents are often jealous of other parents (not me, but I have seen it happen with parents who are rich or successful or smart or whatever - again, I fit none of those), and take it out in extremely unreasonable ways - and it only alienates their child. I have also heard of parents with issues that they pass on to their teens, without realizing. Point being, more parents need professional guidance before they jump the gun and unleash their crazy on their children. I suppose in the weird cases I have seen, it is the parents' control issues, that is their downfall (and ultimately, their children).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't true of ALL girls. Your daughter needs to be looking for higher quality friends. The kids in music and theater seem to have less of this. Popular doesn't mean well liked, it just means well known. The best lesson she can learn is if someone doesn't treat her well then they are out of her life.

agree. your daughters friends are low quality. it's best to get rid of them now and never look back. they sound toxic and a waste of time. so many better girls out there to be friends with.

p.s. sorry to say, she will likely experience this behavior in the workplace when she is starting out. I feel sorry for these girls and women.

Anonymous wrote:This isn't true of ALL girls. Your daughter needs to be looking for higher quality friends. The kids in music and theater seem to have less of this. Popular doesn't mean well liked, it just means well known. The best lesson she can learn is if someone doesn't treat her well then they are out of her life.

agree. your daughters friends are low quality. it's best to get rid of them now and never look back. they sound toxic and a waste of time. so many better girls out there to be friends with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is typical, and unfortunately it gets worse until college or young adulthood. This is why most of my friends were guys in high school.

So the idea that girls are all drama and social games, and guys are straightforward no-drama types, is actually sexism. If you couldn't find any girls in high school who didn't play social games, that says something about you, not about girls.

Please, guys are just as bad, they just socially manipulate differently than girls.

This. And also this is just a form of internalized misogyny BS that we sort of teach ourselves makes us cool and superior. I Cringe when I think about how I went to college saying "I just get along better with guys", despite having a core group of girlfriends that STILL have my back at almost 40. I got along great with my male friends too but the need to not let myself be a girl's girl at that age is so odd to me now. I can watch football for hours and still value the bonds of women.

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of exclusion or random meanness hailing in the 5th grade at my daughter’s school. It started with kids being label as popular. How does that happen in ES? Apparently, those girls, “like to gossip and talk to boys a lot.” I’m not sure what that even means as I heard it from another girl. Then, some girls started finding ways to have lunch outside the cafeteria, but act secretive about it when asked. I’m not talking about a lunch club with the guidance counselor. They were using it to be exclusive. The teachers shut down one of their lunch clubs, but it doesn’t seem to have gone away. Just recently, my daughter’s BFF came up to her with and ther girl and said things meant to hurt her feelings and exclude her. I tried to figure out if there was a trigger, but it seems just random. WTH is going on? What is my roll and how do I help my daughter navigate what seems to be a much more complicated social world?

Yes, it happens. Some of the girls are precocious with puberty or whatever and some just have older sisters.

You help your daughter by telling her to find her people and be confident in her own skin. Easier said than done, but... Also, you cannot control what others do. The more you understand that, the easier life is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

+1

To many parents, living vicariously, try to force friendships on behalf of their children (who have long since been old enough to make their own social arrangements). Back off, control freak parents -- you are helping no one, least of all, your own children.

It's easier said than done.
Despite the encouragement from a parent, a girl may continue to seek and pursue a friendship with former friends who are popular even if they no longer have anything in common with those friends. It can be a hard lesson for some girls and it's just experience and nothing else that they will ultimately learn from.

I agree with PP. My MS DS hasn't accepted that some of the boys who he grew up with are too popular/cool (whatever you want to call it) for him now and they tend to exclude him. We've encouraged him to look for a more welcoming tribe, but can't force him to do so and it makes for some hard lessons (both for him and us).

This book sounds like it could apply - discusses status versus likability among other things: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cracking-the-popularity-code/.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting thread. Growing up I was always somewhat nerdy and shy. I was never cool but I picked friends like me and they were solid an loyal. I think when the social dynamics change, you should encourage your daughters to seek out others like themselves instead of reaching to still try and be accepted by and ultimately hurt by former friends who want to be popular. That is the best advice I can give. I never felt lonely or left out because I would find just one or two people like myself and make friends with them.

+1

To many parents, living vicariously, try to force friendships on behalf of their children (who have long since been old enough to make their own social arrangements). Back off, control freak parents -- you are helping no one, least of all, your own children.

It's easier said than done.
Despite the encouragement from a parent, a girl may continue to seek and pursue a friendship with former friends who are popular even if they no longer have anything in common with those friends. It can be a hard lesson for some girls and it's just experience and nothing else that they will ultimately learn from.

*Too