I'm wondering if some of these stories about idiot athletes at Ivies are representative. The year my kid started Columbia, the athletic recruits at the welcome session were from TJ and the Blair magnet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in secondary education. I know a white girl who got into an Ivy for soccer the summer after 9th grade. She's no genius. I also have a black football player who has offers from a few Ivies and he's a nice kid, but a legit idiot.

Wait, how is this new info?

To the OP, someone actually does get in. URM, athlete, legacy are hooks we would all LOVE to have.

I just wonder where a top Ivy can hide dummy athletes? I don't think any Ivies have remedial coursework like public Us offer. And a football player at an Ivy isn't leaving early to go pro, they have to hide these kids in classes for the full 4 years.

And the 9th grader getting into an Ivy two years before coach or admissions sees her SAT? Explain THAT.

Anonymous wrote:I work in secondary education. I know a white girl who got into an Ivy for soccer the summer after 9th grade. She's no genius. I also have a black football player who has offers from a few Ivies and he's a nice kid, but a legit idiot.

Wait, how is this new info?

To the OP, someone actually does get in. URM, athlete, legacy are hooks we would all LOVE to have.

I work in secondary education. I know a white girl who got into an Ivy for soccer the summer after 9th grade. She's no genius. I also have a black football player who has offers from a few Ivies and he's a nice kid, but a legit idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So DC and I read up on College Confidential and got a few books (DC was really into it and drove a lot of this).

Could you please what books that you got? Thanks!

Sorry! I can't remember and pitched them (said kid graduated last spring). For the essays and packaging, go on Amazon and see what's new. You can often spot the gimmicky writers or the ones who don't have anything to add. Spend time on College Confidential (although the "chance me" threads are mainly uninformed kids chancing other uninformed kids). There are acceptance/denial threads for every school--read these to see who is getting in and why. Think about a narrative that describes your kid's journey so far, and how this ties into the college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:having an extreme talent in an area they need at that moment. Perfect scorers with perfect GPA will get rejected. Not only do you need to have an extreme talent, but you have to have provable achievements. 10, 000 hours of community service means nada. Your Scholastic awards mean nothing. Your MUN competitions mean almost nothing. Your state level Varsity sports could mean something, your state level Oboe could mean something, but your state level violin probably won't. Top scorers are a dime a dozen, you have to be top scorer PLUS supremely talented. Every year I tell this to parents and they don't believe me and they apply and their kid gets shut out. And they thank me for making them apply to some realistic schools (that they think they will never have to attend)…bc they got shut out of 7, accepted to the state safety they don't really like, but the other 2 schools they didn't think they would need…well, thank god bc that is where they end up. There are very few exceptions to these rules.

The parents know this. Harvard Admission Rep came this Fall to give a talk at the Harvard club. The 5 Harvard categories are: 1) nationally recruited athlete (with stellar grades and scores), 2) first in the family to go to college (more educated the parent, the worse off the kid), 3) former military with stellar references, 4) from some rural outreach area and 5) academic recruit -- professor wants to continue the cutting edge research you started in middle/high school. Legacy can help if you are 1 or 5. Otherwise, not so much. She told the room of Harvard alums, many of whom brought kids and paid lots for a chicken dinner, that sorry - most likely your kid is not getting in.

Athletes do not stellar grades or scores. We know of an ice hockey kid which an ivy was willing to accept if they could score 1300 on the SAT. Yep, 1300 on 3 sections combined. You can look at prep schools websites where they boast about athletic recruitment and then match that up with the honors list of the school. You will see athletes in the 'helmet' sports do not need stellar grades or scores. Oh, there will be a few but those are the bench warmers and $$$$ to raise the average AI of the team.

My daughter attended a pre-college program and the kids sent back written field reports in the fall, which were then published on university's website. Some of these kids are 11th and 12th graders writing like Ivy League graduate students. It's such bullsh*t! Obviously their mother or even more likely, a college admissions consultant is writing them so the kid can link to it on their application!

Anonymous wrote:having an extreme talent in an area they need at that moment. Perfect scorers with perfect GPA will get rejected. Not only do you need to have an extreme talent, but you have to have provable achievements. 10, 000 hours of community service means nada. Your Scholastic awards mean nothing. Your MUN competitions mean almost nothing. Your state level Varsity sports could mean something, your state level Oboe could mean something, but your state level violin probably won't. Top scorers are a dime a dozen, you have to be top scorer PLUS supremely talented. Every year I tell this to parents and they don't believe me and they apply and their kid gets shut out. And they thank me for making them apply to some realistic schools (that they think they will never have to attend)…bc they got shut out of 7, accepted to the state safety they don't really like, but the other 2 schools they didn't think they would need…well, thank god bc that is where they end up. There are very few exceptions to these rules.

The parents know this. Harvard Admission Rep came this Fall to give a talk at the Harvard club. The 5 Harvard categories are: 1) nationally recruited athlete (with stellar grades and scores), 2) first in the family to go to college (more educated the parent, the worse off the kid), 3) former military with stellar references, 4) from some rural outreach area and 5) academic recruit -- professor wants to continue the cutting edge research you started in middle/high school. Legacy can help if you are 1 or 5. Otherwise, not so much. She told the room of Harvard alums, many of whom brought kids and paid lots for a chicken dinner, that sorry - most likely your kid is not getting in.

I don't understand the resent at preferences for URMs. It's not like white people aren't favored in everything!

Anonymous wrote:So DC and I read up on College Confidential and got a few books (DC was really into it and drove a lot of this).

Could you please what books that you got? Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just seems so unfair to me that some parents are spending a lot of money for college counselors to package their kids for acceptance into college.
Just wondering if this really gives them any advantage over the rest of our kids - or if the admission committees can spot these applicants ans that is why the counselors are bemoaning the low acceptance rates for their clients. If our kids stats were golden (including a major talent) why would we need you anyway?

Typical suburbanite UMC white lady here who spent the longest meal of my life seated next to another UMC white lady whose kid got into HYP with stats that were very strong but indistinguishable from those of her classmates. They used a counselor, and she was really pushing me to use the same person. So maybe there is some magic with the resultant packaging? Or maybe the university had a track record with this counselor?

Or maybe her kid had better recs. Mom doesn’t know, so she credits the counselor. But what could/did the counselor do? No way in hell that the for-hire counselor’s word got the DC admitted. The counselor barely knows the kid.

With enough research on your own, you and your kid can do your own packaging. I'm fully convinced that's partially how my kid got into a USNWR top 5. Kid was in public school and the counselor really only understood and pushed UMD, so we realized we needed a little extra help. So DC and I read up on College Confidential and got a few books (DC was really into it and drove a lot of this). There are a few obvious things, like don't write your essay about your inspirational grandma or your service trip, if it's in a major city don't wax eloquent about the city at the expense of the college, present yourself as a kid with a "passion" rather than the "well-rounded" kid colleges were looking for in our generation. DC's grades and stats were great (that's basically a pre-requisite) and DC's EC's and awards naturally pointed to a passion. So DC knocked the essays out of the park with a consistent theme about pursing the passion at the college. The "why do you want to attend our college?" essay was basically all about how DC could only really pursue that passion at that college, which was actually true, so it was all the more convincing (colleges love kids who love them, because it helps yield).

Of course, if you don't have the time but you do have the money, then pay an advisor.

Anonymous wrote:No, you just don’t read closely or pay attention to context.

Do you even know what a pattern is? Statistically speaking?

No, you just don’t read closely or pay attention to context.

Anonymous wrote:I responded to a question — URM athletes or all athletes — on its own terms, then quickly clarified to make it clear I wasn’t saying all athletes were at the bottom of the class. What I’m saying is, to the extent that I noticed a pattern wrt which hooks lead to admission of academically weak students, it was athletics rather than URM.

Interesting you didn’t make the same objections (re stereotypes and statistical soundness) when the claim was made that URM students were the bottom of the class at elite schools.

I have not read that part of the thread. I just don't like sloppy arguments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just seems so unfair to me that some parents are spending a lot of money for college counselors to package their kids for acceptance into college.
Just wondering if this really gives them any advantage over the rest of our kids - or if the admission committees can spot these applicants ans that is why the counselors are bemoaning the low acceptance rates for their clients. If our kids stats were golden (including a major talent) why would we need you anyway?

Typical suburbanite UMC white lady here who spent the longest meal of my life seated next to another UMC white lady whose kid got into HYP with stats that were very strong but indistinguishable from those of her classmates. They used a counselor, and she was really pushing me to use the same person. So maybe there is some magic with the resultant packaging? Or maybe the university had a track record with this counselor?

Or maybe her kid had better recs. Mom doesn’t know, so she credits the counselor. But what could/did the counselor do? No way in hell that the for-hire counselor’s word got the DC admitted. The counselor barely knows the kid.