Anonymous wrote:I find the butter discussion fascinating! I had no idea that you are not supposed to butter your whole piece of bread

Really? You are either young (under 35) or not raised UMC.

Ignore the butter nuts. I grew up UMC, went Ivy undergrad & grad, and use a knife in my left hand. It's never held me back.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op unlike the previous poster I will try to be helpful. My mom was like you and I am a product of grandparents who were homeless,?drug addicted, teen moms, etc.

My dad did very well in business and my family is now wealthy. My mom tried to play the game and was frustrated all my youth and probably still is.

Things she did--she got etiquette books and treated them like the Bible. She paid attention to other parents in the social circle she found herself in all the time. Asked open-ended questions like what activities is your DD doing? And pretended like she knew what was going on. "Oh, your DD is in tennis? We're considering it. I've been too busy to get her registered" The next week I'd be signed up for tennis. Of course she'd never thought of tennis. Same with piano.

Healthy food became important in these circles. She stopped cooking rice a roni at some point and moved to organics and steamed vegetables.

My advice is be yourself. This is a game you can't win and will kill yourself if you try to play. Just enjoy your kids and give them love and what you think they need.

Does anyone have a good modern etiquette book they would recommend? I don't need to know how to write a proper long-form rsvp to a wedding invitation, but there's probably stuff I'm missing.

I like The Miss Manners book, and Kate Spade has a cute one out too. The important thing is not to be too stiff. "Drag your mink" as they say. A littler irreverence goes a long way.

Now that you have accumulated money, you and your family need cultural capital. I like the ideas above about reading and visiting museums. Watch films and immerse yourself in international cinema. Try to go to just follow along in social media when it's fashion week. Have the kids find their "thing" and develop it so it is broadly applicable. For example. I'm a curator, and my art history background is great for dinner party and cocktail hour conversations.

Please teach your children how to set a table. One of the few ways you know my MIL was working class/lower middle class growing up is that she doesn't know which side of the plate to put the spoon.

I think it's important to point out that a lot of the parenting stuff mentioned needs to be learned, regardless of how you grew up. I was raised UMC and have had plenty of conversations with other UMC parents over the years that made it clear that most of us wing it on occasion. Life has changed a lot since I was a kid and there are a lot of current UMC standards and expectations that did not exist when I was growing up.

Former equestrian here. Surprised by all the hate we are getting! Have ya'll ever been in a horse barn? You're taught to tack and muck out your own horse. It's a dirty endeavor most horse people I know are super down to earth and not afraid if getting a little dirty.

I was prepared to hate this OP, and then I read the post and found out I've apparently been sleep-posting (except at a lower income level), right down to both parents growing up with stints of poverty.

Given the times that I've been humiliated by what I didn't know, or had never done, I have actually given a lot of thought to the questions that OP poses.

For someone who grew up middle class, so much of this is going to seem simple, but the whole reason it is embarrassing is that poor folks DON'T always grow up knowing it, so here goes:

* Manners: Table manners (knife and fork, napkin on lap, etc), thank you notes, bringing a gift to hosts, addressing adults with honorifics where needed

* Culture: Basic familiarity with the "great books," works of art, classical music, and dance.

* Hobbies: Everyone plays an instrument until they are 14, and then we can negotiate, plus a sport unless there's a good reason not to like serious music or art.

* Humility: The difference between horrendous new money and old money (my kids will likely have neither, by the way) is humility. Even though we aren't rich, I want my kids to know how lucky they are, and that only thrift and humility will keep us that way.

Country Clubs and cotillion aren't necessary. Nice manners, correct speech and swimming are required, as are good grades for first generation. If you are in a good public then private isn't required until middle school. The REAL UMC will welcome you and admire your grit. The new money that drives high status cars and flashes diamonds will snub you.

Something important along the etiquette lines is eye contact. Making eye contact with teachers, coaches, other parents is a very important social skill. There is a kids etiquette class in DC that teaches kids how to introduce himself, make small talk and also table manners. Manners are one the most obvious class markers.

Honestly op live like you are middle class. Send your kids to public school. Save your money since you won't be inheriting millions like everyone else. Get your kids swim lessons, sure so you don't have to worry about them drowning.

Teach them to say please and thank you. Get them an etiquette class if they are old enough. If someone invites you to something, always bring a hostess gift (a bottle of wine is easy) and always reciprocate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

You lost me at posting all your junk on Facebook. Not very UMC to want everyone to see your activities. Privacy is a luxury.

+1 one thing I've noticed about the UMC is that they're not into posting every little thing on FB. Maybe a handful of vacation photos, maybe an anniversary pic but usually they only post for the big events.

Anonymous wrote:One hallmark of an UMC family that no one else has mentioned yet is that UMC parents are constantly using everyday life to teach their kids about math, science, history, English, and the arts. Constantly. Take the eclipse for example. For the past few weeks DH and I have been talking about the upcoming eclipse, showing our 10 and 12 year old boys interesting science articles on it, talking about how far we would have to drive to see totality (and whether we were willing to make that trade-off), what time it would start, when the peak would be, when it would end, and on and on. We also bought eclipse glasses, explained the science behind how the eclipse happens (the moons size and relative position to the earth). DH took the day off and I worked from home so we could all watch it together. We then posted pics to Facebook showing our little eclipse party. If we weren't currently on a diet, I would have made eclipse cupcakes with chocolate and vanilla icing show all of the phases and then posted pictures of that to Facebook. Etc. etc.

We do stuff like this all the time. Celebrate Pi day (3/14), play endless strategy games with the kids, play the alphabet game (using ancient empires) while we wait for our food at the restaurant. I'm talking seriously nerdy here. I find us insufferable .

You lost me at posting all your junk on Facebook. Not very UMC to want everyone to see your activities. Privacy is a luxury.

Well if your kid wants to take horse back riding lessons, what's the harm? You can afford it. We pay $45/30 min private lessons. You can lease a horse for less than 1k a month.

My kids also do tennis and figure skating. I tried piano but none of them were introduced it. I'm hoping they might pick up an instrument through school.

Anonymous wrote:You're rich, OP. Maybe you don't come from rich, maybe you don't feel rich, but you ARE rich.

Teach your kid to eat at the table, elbows off, chew with mouth closed, don't talk with food in mouth. Butter only the bread you're about to chew. Don't butter the whole piece of bread and don't put a pat of butter on your plate to butter from. Napkin in lap. Please and thank you to waitstaff. Don't eat until everyone at the table has been served. Teach to eat neatly. Don't stuff your mouth full. Be willing to try new foods. Know how to say "I hate that crap!" nicely.

Teach your kid manners. Get up for old, handicapped, pregnant people. Hold the door for everyone with a smile. People who are poor are always out for themselves and are always desperate to get everything they can free. Only take one sample.

My DD has never taken swim lessons. She figured it out herself. But yes, know how to play sports. Doesn't have to win awards, but you don't want to be picked last for a team because you suck.

Actually, I think this is where the very poor and the very rich come full circle and meet. I've never known a group more interested in arrogating alllll the goodies to itself than the extremely wealthy.

I grew up solidly middle class (my parents grew up on food stamps and school free lunch), and my husband grew up in poverty and I've noticed more differences in upbringing/class than I previously knew existed.

Preventative medicine: Everyone should be seeing a primary care physician or a pediatrician(kids) at least once a year for a physical. Kids should get an annual eye exam, and everyone should see the dentist 2x a year. If your child has a suspected broken bone or serious sprain, take them to an orthopedist. DH has a bone in his wrist that healed wonky bc he never told his mom he fell out of a tree bc he knew they didn't have money for a doctor. If your kid needs stitches in the ER, ask for a plastic surgeon.

Have your kids start hand writing thank you notes in Kindergarten. At age 8-9, they should read: "Dear _____, Thank you for coming to my birthday party. I love the _____ you got me [thing about the gift they like]. Your Friend, Kid".

Table manners and how to make small talk are huge.

Send your kids to camp.

Encourage playing a musical instrument, even if it's just the school band in elementary/middle school.

Take pool/beach towels to the pool/beach, not bath towels.

Make volunteering as a family a part of your life---we packed food deliveries for a local food pantry every night one week a month.

Take your kids to children's theatre regularly---appreciation for the arts is a great gift.

Have a hobby that makes you happy and model for your kids taking time for yourself.

Hmmmm. Something about your response made me think that you don't want the full UMC snobbery answer, since you said you were going to pick & choose what you will give your kids (horseback riding is really fun!! but I agree that there's a dangerously rich-girl subculture there that's not one I aspire to). I grew up UMC (maybe MC as my parents were academics, but prior generations were UMC so we had some of those values) in a suburb of Boston which was a bastion of old money values. I didn't understand all of it growing up, but as I became an adult I decided which pieces of it I valued. I used to reject most, if not all of the blueblood pretensions, but I now see pieces of it as really socially valuable. Old $ in New England meant: private school, cotillions, golf/tennis/country clubs (none of which I value, except maybe the tennis as it's a great lifetime sport - my DH & I don't care for golf). It also meant: stewarding your $ wisely (ie driving old Volvos until they died) so you could take trips to go skiing in the Alps; philanthropic work & donating $ to support less fortunate people in the community as well as cultural/arts institutions; aspiring to elite educational institutions for college/grad school; valuing family name & therefore creating a strong culture of support for one another. I can support all of those as long as you're not stuck obsessing over the Ivies. I think your dilemma is that you need to know the landscape so you can pick and choose what fits your values. Many PPs have laid it out, but: a) healthy eating & fitness have high value for UMC families now; b) educational enrichment in a highly competitive marketplace for college acceptances is important; c) appearing to have quiet wealth (I think there are a # of threads on UMC appearance but suffice it to say that ppl find personal grooming, understated yet expensive jewelry, being thin/fit/styled, and preventive maintenance against aging to be the norm for UMC women) like a vacation home someplace desirable & trips to beautiful, foreign, or educational places scattered throughout are all important. But, I agree with a PP who noted that it's a dangerous road to go down. People who are truly old money will never accept you & your gauche new money, no matter how hard you try to fit in, so at a certain point you just need to create your own community. Some old $ people who like you not for your $ but for you, and some other folks who worked hard for what they have made of their lives. People who share your values. I agree that there's a lot to be learned from people who have unlimited resources -- they can choose interesting options for their kids -- but some of the class baggage is not worth wading into.