@TPES the number of students per grade has allowed them to provide differentiated math and reading in a positive way. This would not be possible at a smaller school. I imagine this would be true for PBES as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the test score breakdown, PP.

Poor kids do AS POORLY at Piney Branch as they do at Rolling Terrace, which is a much higher needs school overall than Piney Branch.

Poor kids do BETTER at ESS, Sligo Creek, Forest Knolls, Oakland Terrace, and other nearby schools than they do at PBES, which is definitely distressing, and sends up alarms for anyone with Black or Latino kids, or kids with special needs.

I think this is what was meant upthread by judging a school by how well it is doing by the kids who aren't getting outside enrichment. Piney Branch is always going to have more middle class kids than many of the schools in the neighborhood, but presence of middle class kids alone doesn't mean a school has excellent teachers.

We know from extensive research that middle class kids will do fine no matter what, particularly on standardized tests. But what is happening at PBES that is keeping poorly kids from working to the level of nearby schools with similar demographics?

That's an open question and one that probably deserves an answer. The best case scenario is that PBES just doesn't spend much time on test prep. The less great scenario is that the size of PBES and the presence of very vocal very demanding middle class white parents, is negatively impacting the experience of the poor kids at the school.

Some of the issue with PBES may be size. There are over 600 students in a school with only three grades. Rolling Terrace, where students do similarly poorly, has over 900 students. Oakland Terrace, Highland View and ESS are all smaller. Forest Knolls may be larger, but it covers grades k through 5. Piney Branch, with over 300 kids per grade, it is more comparable to a middle school or high school. I feel like that has to have some impact on student achievement.

The information available online states that Piney Branch has fewer than 600 total students; however, it will likely reach 650 in the next 1 to 2 years.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the test score breakdown, PP.

Poor kids do AS POORLY at Piney Branch as they do at Rolling Terrace, which is a much higher needs school overall than Piney Branch.

Poor kids do BETTER at ESS, Sligo Creek, Forest Knolls, Oakland Terrace, and other nearby schools than they do at PBES, which is definitely distressing, and sends up alarms for anyone with Black or Latino kids, or kids with special needs.

I think this is what was meant upthread by judging a school by how well it is doing by the kids who aren't getting outside enrichment. Piney Branch is always going to have more middle class kids than many of the schools in the neighborhood, but presence of middle class kids alone doesn't mean a school has excellent teachers.

We know from extensive research that middle class kids will do fine no matter what, particularly on standardized tests. But what is happening at PBES that is keeping poorly kids from working to the level of nearby schools with similar demographics?

That's an open question and one that probably deserves an answer. The best case scenario is that PBES just doesn't spend much time on test prep. The less great scenario is that the size of PBES and the presence of very vocal very demanding middle class white parents, is negatively impacting the experience of the poor kids at the school.

Some of the issue with PBES may be size. There are over 600 students in a school with only three grades. Rolling Terrace, where students do similarly poorly, has over 900 students. Oakland Terrace, Highland View and ESS are all smaller. Forest Knolls may be larger, but it covers grades k through 5. Piney Branch, with over 300 kids per grade, it is more comparable to a middle school or high school. I feel like that has to have some impact on student achievement.

Been in TKPK for half-dozen years and can't imagine living anywhere else. The community is great. The old homes and big trees are attractive. My commute downtown is short. The schools are diverse and are unrivaled in Montgomery County for STEM education.

Anonymous wrote:
it isn't the best parts of silver spring and TP that color my willingness to live there, it is the all too common bad parts. Stuff like this just doesn't happen in nicer areas.
http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/08/5-arrested-silver-spring-home-invasion/

,

Wasn't their an absolutely gruesome murder in a yoga shop in Bethesda a few years ago? And didn't some dc urban moms come on to post that the crazy murderer had babysat their kids and they were horrified?

Why, yes, that did happen! Oopsies guess you're wrong.

TKPK is very nice. I grew up just outside of Takoma DC and we would walk up to Takoma Park for a nice place to hang out/shop. Would have loved to live there as an adult but it was already out of our budget even when we were looking in 2009. If you can afford it, go for it.

Also live on the dtss/tp border and it's been great. Much nicer than our supposedly nicer DC neighborhood. I was impressed with ESS also. The principal seems like she is really working hard for all the kids and the community is great.

There are always going to be people in this world who think they know what "the best" is and "have to have it...." Me? I wouldn't last ten seconds in their world. I'd be so bored. In my experience, their best is also usually not all that great. Also, if boarding school taught me anything, it is that I do not want my children exposed to the influences of the idle, coddled, and affectless rich. Let them have Bethesda

Anonymous wrote:
it isn't the best parts of silver spring and TP that color my willingness to live there, it is the all too common bad parts. Stuff like this just doesn't happen in nicer areas.
http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/08/5-arrested-silver-spring-home-invasion/

Out of curiosity, where do you live?

it isn't the best parts of silver spring and TP that color my willingness to live there, it is the all too common bad parts. Stuff like this just doesn't happen in nicer areas.
http://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/08/5-arrested-silver-spring-home-invasion/

Commute to work for me is horrible from Takoma. The schools are so-so. Generally, not as safe as I would like for a small family.

BUT I have friends that chose TP and love it for a family. Everyone is different, OP. Only you can answer the question for yourself.

Thanks for the test score breakdown, PP.

Poor kids do AS POORLY at Piney Branch as they do at Rolling Terrace, which is a much higher needs school overall than Piney Branch.

Poor kids do BETTER at ESS, Sligo Creek, Forest Knolls, Oakland Terrace, and other nearby schools than they do at PBES, which is definitely distressing, and sends up alarms for anyone with Black or Latino kids, or kids with special needs.

I think this is what was meant upthread by judging a school by how well it is doing by the kids who aren't getting outside enrichment. Piney Branch is always going to have more middle class kids than many of the schools in the neighborhood, but presence of middle class kids alone doesn't mean a school has excellent teachers.

We know from extensive research that middle class kids will do fine no matter what, particularly on standardized tests. But what is happening at PBES that is keeping poorly kids from working to the level of nearby schools with similar demographics?

That's an open question and one that probably deserves an answer. The best case scenario is that PBES just doesn't spend much time on test prep. The less great scenario is that the size of PBES and the presence of very vocal very demanding middle class white parents, is negatively impacting the experience of the poor kids at the school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We almost purchased a home and then decided not to. Here's why:

1. The commute into downtown (where we work) is long. You have to cross through local traffic and it takes twice as long as it should just based on distance alone.
2. The schools are not good, despite what some may say. See the scores for yourself. Talk to some of the teachers about having to teach to the middle (which isn't so middle). We wanted a good public school option.

I'm not going to argue with someone else's experience, but it sounds like PP here is describing a driving commute. I can see that being a challenge, but driving into the city also seems like such a waste of living as close in as Takoma Park. Why not just ride the Metro?

The schools are an interesting case. TPES is well regarded, as is Piney Branch but I can see what a PP said about stratification. If you look at the scores, poor kids do significantly worse at Piney Branch than the statewide average. That is a bit worrying, because I always figure you should look at the scores of the kids who aren't getting outside enrichment to see how the school is really doing. If you look at the schools around Piney Branch, poor kids test better at the other schools, even schools with much higher percentages of poor children.

BUT...it seems middle class kids do fine wherever, which pretty much confirms what we already know about test scores.

I live in Takoma Park (and love it) and am also surprised by the test scores for lower-income children. I'm not sure what is behind it. Is there a higher immigrant population than in other areas (which can mean language barriers in addition to income differences)? Or is the teaching of quality of the education actually worse than other areas nearby. Our children haven't started school yet so I really don't know.

I live on the border of TP and DTSS and LOVE it. Beautiful tree-lined streets, nice yards, friendly neighbors, all the amenities of a vibrant downtown with shops and restaurants in DTSS with the quaint and character-filled TP a stone's throw away.
That said, the scores for minority and lower SES kids at Piney Branch ES are extremely troubling. And I say that as an AA mom who has paid close attention to the lack of relative growth in those groups' scores over the past few years.
Just compare them to the scores of nearby, and sometimes unfairly maligned ESS elementary. That school does a better job, in terms of tests at least, with helping close the achievement gap and they actually have more lower income and ESL kids by percentage of the population than Piney Branch. That school has steadily been moving all kids forward and it is reflected in their overall score bump. A few years ago ESS was a 4, now they are at a 6 on Great Schools. Not stellar, but definitely growth in the right direction.
Piney Branch's scores seemed to be largely buttressed by the high scores of the white kids. They are at a 7 overall.
And if you look more closely at the actual state and county scores (from which Great Schools pulls data) the trend tracks across all subjects for both schools.
Why is this the case?
Piney Branch is a slightly higher rated school overall, but there is something troubling about such a huge achievement gap that can't just be explained away by demographic.
All of this is to say, TP is lovely but a utopia for all it is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bizarre thread. We feel priced out of TP with a budget of $850K. We are staying put for now in nearby SS which we love but may move to a bigger house at some point. TP MD is a prime choice but the houses see are looking at are pricey. Families I know love the schools. Close to the city plus a metro stop so confused about commute complaints.

I'm sorry but there are plenty of great houses in TP, in walking distance to Metro for less than $850k.

We are not actively looking now, just thinking in a few years. To be fair I'm pretty picky. We have a great house now, we just may outgrow it. I want the renovated open kitchen etc.that we have now. So that is what I mean by priced out - for our preferences - not that we can't get anything there. For what we want, we may have to move a bit further out. Or stay put and compromise on size.

Agreed. Closer to the metro you get less for your money in terms of house. Same as everywhere in the DMV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a bizarre thread. We feel priced out of TP with a budget of $850K. We are staying put for now in nearby SS which we love but may move to a bigger house at some point. TP MD is a prime choice but the houses see are looking at are pricey. Families I know love the schools. Close to the city plus a metro stop so confused about commute complaints.

I'm sorry but there are plenty of great houses in TP, in walking distance to Metro for less than $850k.

We are not actively looking now, just thinking in a few years. To be fair I'm pretty picky. We have a great house now, we just may outgrow it. I want the renovated open kitchen etc.that we have now. So that is what I mean by priced out - for our preferences - not that we can't get anything there. For what we want, we may have to move a bit further out. Or stay put and compromise on size.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend was stabbed with a knive working from the Metro there. She had open heart surgery. It was in the day light.
No, thank you.

That's crazy! When did this happen???

I remember this. It was more than 10 years ago.