Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"They" is not referring to Girl Scouts but to those parents pushing to make Boy Scouts coed instead of pushing to make Girl Scouts more adventurous, rugged and focused on outdoor skills.

Hasn't it occurred to you that the parents pushing to make a Cub Scout program available to their daughters as well as their sons might just be looking for a sensible solution that fits their lives?

I have heard of a pack where the boys all meet one night a week for den meetings, and someone takes the girls to a different room and they do similar activities there, under the Learning for Life program. Parent's LOVE the convenience and the girls like the Cub Scout program just as much as the boys do.

Then they should sign up for a coed scout group like Fireside.

Pulling from the BSA video, he also pointed out that if they open Cub Scouts to girls they are really going to have to look at opening all the way through Eagle. Then they are going to have to figure out a way to try to keep the single gender scouting in Scouts. They suggested having girl only or boy only troops...separate but equal. But this does not take into account that in many (if not most) areas there will not be enough interested girls to field entire dens and programs (after all they will now be competing with Girl ascouts to draw in girls). So either girls will have to drive farther to find "girl" Boy Scout troops, or they are going to push the it's not fair narrative (it won't be) that they are prevented from just joining their local pack, den or troop, and pressure boy scout troops that were told by BSA they would be allowed to remain single gender to be forced to become coed to accomodate the 2-4 girls at each grade who aren't enough to staff a troop of their own and who shouldn't need to drive a neighborhood or two away to find a girl Boy Scout troop.


Boy scouts should not go coed, especially the way they are proposing. Saying that individual packs and dens will have the option of choosing to remain boy only is a lie and tuey know it. In very short order single gender boy scouting will be over if they go with what BSA is proposing.

Saying all this, although I am VERY against BSA making Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts coed and open to girl membership, I have no objections to them creating a new organization for girls, single gender scouting, with a new name and its own traditions, that follows the advancement model of Boy Scouts. I also am not against expqnding Venture Scouting to younger ages.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"They" is not referring to Girl Scouts but to those parents pushing to make Boy Scouts coed instead of pushing to make Girl Scouts more adventurous, rugged and focused on outdoor skills.

Hasn't it occurred to you that the parents pushing to make a Cub Scout program available to their daughters as well as their sons might just be looking for a sensible solution that fits their lives?

I have heard of a pack where the boys all meet one night a week for den meetings, and someone takes the girls to a different room and they do similar activities there, under the Learning for Life program. Parent's LOVE the convenience and the girls like the Cub Scout program just as much as the boys do.

Then they should sign up for a coed scout group like Fireside.

Pulling from the BSA video, he also pointed out that if they open Cub Scouts to girls they are really going to have to look at opening all the way through Eagle. Then they are going to have to figure out a way to try to keep the single gender scouting in Scouts. They suggested having girl only or boy only troops...separate but equal. But this does not take into account that in many (if not most) areas there will not be enough interested girls to field entire dens and programs (after all they will now be competing with Girl ascouts to draw in girls). So either girls will have to drive farther to find "girl" Boy Scout troops, or they are going to push the it's not fair narrative (it won't be) that they are prevented from just joining their local pack, den or troop, and pressure boy scout troops that were told by BSA they would be allowed to remain single gender to be forced to become coed to accomodate the 2-4 girls at each grade who aren't enough to staff a troop of their own and who shouldn't need to drive a neighborhood or two away to find a girl Boy Scout troop.


Boy scouts should not go coed, especially the way they are proposing. Saying that individual packs and dens will have the option of choosing to remain boy only is a lie and tuey know it. In very short order single gender boy scouting will be over if they go with what BSA is proposing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

Girl Scouts released a ton of outdoor and STEM related badges and journeys last month.
A lot of the "lack of rigor" that people complain about is due to lackluster leaders who chose not to follow the journeys/badges in earnest or who chose not to get involved in their council and national activities.
Easier to whine than actually step up to improve their daughter's troop.

But in the process they are pushing to ruin the most valuable parts of Boy Scouting, single gender opportunities and education for boys.

Huh? Girl Scouts isn't pushing that at all! Girl Scouts is and is planning to remain a single sex organization and really has no influence (and probably no strong opinion) about what Boy Scouts does with its activities.
This thread was started by BOY SCOUTS survey about Cub Scout membership.

This is all on the boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"They" is not referring to Girl Scouts but to those parents pushing to make Boy Scouts coed instead of pushing to make Girl Scouts more adventurous, rugged and focused on outdoor skills.

Hasn't it occurred to you that the parents pushing to make a Cub Scout program available to their daughters as well as their sons might just be looking for a sensible solution that fits their lives?

I have heard of a pack where the boys all meet one night a week for den meetings, and someone takes the girls to a different room and they do similar activities there, under the Learning for Life program. Parent's LOVE the convenience and the girls like the Cub Scout program just as much as the boys do.

Then they should sign up for a coed scout group like Fireside.

Anonymous wrote:
"They" is not referring to Girl Scouts but to those parents pushing to make Boy Scouts coed instead of pushing to make Girl Scouts more adventurous, rugged and focused on outdoor skills.

Hasn't it occurred to you that the parents pushing to make a Cub Scout program available to their daughters as well as their sons might just be looking for a sensible solution that fits their lives?

I have heard of a pack where the boys all meet one night a week for den meetings, and someone takes the girls to a different room and they do similar activities there, under the Learning for Life program. Parent's LOVE the convenience and the girls like the Cub Scout program just as much as the boys do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

Girl Scouts released a ton of outdoor and STEM related badges and journeys last month.
A lot of the "lack of rigor" that people complain about is due to lackluster leaders who chose not to follow the journeys/badges in earnest or who chose not to get involved in their council and national activities.
Easier to whine than actually step up to improve their daughter's troop.

But in the process they are pushing to ruin the most valuable parts of Boy Scouting, single gender opportunities and education for boys.

Huh? In what process? Who is pushing to ruin part of Boy Scouting?

Not Girl Scouts. We aren't pushing to do anything.

"They" is not referring to Girl Scouts but to those parents pushing to make Boy Scouts coed instead of pushing to make Girl Scouts more adventurous, rugged and focused on outdoor skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

Girl Scouts released a ton of outdoor and STEM related badges and journeys last month.
A lot of the "lack of rigor" that people complain about is due to lackluster leaders who chose not to follow the journeys/badges in earnest or who chose not to get involved in their council and national activities.
Easier to whine than actually step up to improve their daughter's troop.

But in the process they are pushing to ruin the most valuable parts of Boy Scouting, single gender opportunities and education for boys.

Huh? In what process? Who is pushing to ruin part of Boy Scouting?

Not Girl Scouts. We aren't pushing to do anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

Girl Scouts released a ton of outdoor and STEM related badges and journeys last month.
A lot of the "lack of rigor" that people complain about is due to lackluster leaders who chose not to follow the journeys/badges in earnest or who chose not to get involved in their council and national activities.
Easier to whine than actually step up to improve their daughter's troop.

But in the process they are pushing to ruin the most valuable parts of Boy Scouting, single gender opportunities and education for boys.

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

Girl Scouts released a ton of outdoor and STEM related badges and journeys last month.
A lot of the "lack of rigor" that people complain about is due to lackluster leaders who chose not to follow the journeys/badges in earnest or who chose not to get involved in their council and national activities.
Easier to whine than actually step up to improve their daughter's troop.

Anonymous wrote:Girl scouts need to be more inclusive of actual activities other than prepping for MLM sales.

I feel like a lot of these criticisms are sort of sexist. Like there's this attitude that if anything is traditionally female, it must suck and be inherently inferior.
Here are some of the activities my GS troop did last year: ice skating; camping (cooking meals over fire); trip to Congress, meeting Congressional reps and later interviews with women who worked on the Hill on significant legislation; trip to NSA museum where learned how to write and break various codes; training on digital photography from a tech professional; geocaching; hiking; cooked a full dinner; planted garden at a local community center.

Camping and hiking are pretty much every year, but we've also done things like canoeing, trips to animal shelters, learning about seeing eye dogs, ziplining, and--gasp!--crafts such as jewelry making and making gifts for a local charity.

And, here's a suggestion for all you people complaining that GSs don't learn traditionally male skills like whittling (which, btw, isn't that just a craft??). GET THE DADS INVOLVED. I have a major pet peeve that all these dads will step up to volunteer for cub scouts and boy scouts, but don't volunteer to do ANYTHING for their daughters' girl scout troops. The fact of the matter is that most moms don't know how to whittle. No one ever taught us. So if you're a dad that knows how to whittle, or how to fish, or WHATEVER SKILL YOU THINK THESE GIRLS SHOULD KNOW, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE -- email your daughter's troop leader and volunteer to lead a meeting teaching knot tying or whatever . The GS leader will think you are the most awesome person in the universe for volunteering to do something. We are desperate for help and know that the girls get tired of seeing our faces.

The only thing that's really necessarily different about cub scouts versus girl scouts is that: (1) in cub scouts, the skills are MANDATORY for advancement...whereas in GS, nothing is really mandatory at all; and (2) in cub scouts, dads and moms both participate, whereas in Girl Scouts, it all falls on the moms. The second thing is very easy to change, if dads would step up. The first one, I think it's open to debate which is a better system.

P.S. Dads that do volunteer can even get a cool Tshirt or badge that says "Man Enough to Be a Girl Scout." The Girl Scouts really want you guys to help. Really. The only thing you can't do is sleep in a tent with girls that are not your daughter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
None of that. My daughter did crafts and went on a couple of field trips with the parents to a play and a nature walk. My son went fishing, worked with wood and tools, did more survival type activities and had field trips to places like battle fields and the police station. I was just saying DD would have enjoyed the boy's activities more so maybe Girl Scouts, or her troop, isn't a good fit.

So you might be a parent who would agree that the current Cub Scout program would be useful to your daughter?

Third Grade (Bear) Required Adventures (badgework): (These are mandatory so all dens should be doing these)

- knife skills, whittling (Bear Claws)
- camping with family and den (Bear Adventures)
- religion (Duty to God)
- naturalist skills (Fer Feathers Ferns)
- tools, building stuff (Baloo the Builder)
- flag ceremonies, emergency plans, famous Americans, police/fire visit, (Duty to Country)

plus at least one elective Adventure

games
fishing
cooking
American Indians
pets
forensic science
physics
marbles
laughter
robotics
swimming/boating/water safety
science
sound

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/cubscouts/pdf/Bear_Addendum.pdf

My son was in 3rd grade last year. Those are the activities my daughter was watching and loved. They did that plus more.

I was a Junior Girl Scout leader with a 3rd grade troop. We did a lot of those activities, too... only some of which were part of the "official" badgework or program. The rest we had to scrounge around and find retired badges from the old (excellent!) junior badge work, find Council's Own badges from other states, or just do it ourselves not for a badge but just because it was important. It's certainly possible to do these things with your Girl Scout troop but the programming doesn't make it easy or standard that all troops will do this.

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?

I don't think BSA has any sway over what GSUSA does, though.

All they can do is look at their own program, and membership requirements, to see if such a change is something that *they* want to make, for their own families and membership growth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
None of that. My daughter did crafts and went on a couple of field trips with the parents to a play and a nature walk. My son went fishing, worked with wood and tools, did more survival type activities and had field trips to places like battle fields and the police station. I was just saying DD would have enjoyed the boy's activities more so maybe Girl Scouts, or her troop, isn't a good fit.

So you might be a parent who would agree that the current Cub Scout program would be useful to your daughter?

Third Grade (Bear) Required Adventures (badgework): (These are mandatory so all dens should be doing these)

- knife skills, whittling (Bear Claws)
- camping with family and den (Bear Adventures)
- religion (Duty to God)
- naturalist skills (Fer Feathers Ferns)
- tools, building stuff (Baloo the Builder)
- flag ceremonies, emergency plans, famous Americans, police/fire visit, (Duty to Country)

plus at least one elective Adventure

games
fishing
cooking
American Indians
pets
forensic science
physics
marbles
laughter
robotics
swimming/boating/water safety
science
sound

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/cubscouts/pdf/Bear_Addendum.pdf

My son was in 3rd grade last year. Those are the activities my daughter was watching and loved. They did that plus more.

Girl scouts need to be more inclusive of actual activities other than prepping for MLM sales.

Why don't you parents of girls focus on fixing Girl Scouts and instilling more rigor, outdoor experiences and rigor into that program instead of pushing to redifine and completely change Boy Scouts?