Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

I know hear in DCUM-land, parents find this hard to believe, but there are actually many kids who have JMU, CNU, GMU, or UMW (and others) as their first choice. As in, UVA/W&M/Tech aren't the default first choice schools for a lot of people - it's about fit. I have two kids who aimed for JMU, and *only* JMU when they were in high school, because they loved it so much. My third child has all of the schools I listed as his top choices.

Stop thinking about prestige, and start thinking about where your child will be happiest.

Go to the best school you can afford. Period.

Go to the best school you can afford that also feels like the right fit. Period. My high-stats kid didn't even apply to UVA, VT or JMU; she wanted something entirely different in size/scope/campus feel. She's had an amazing experience at UMW. There are high achieving kids at ALL of the VA schools.

+1
Same with my high achieving son! He's also at UMW but could certainly have had a great shot at UVA/Tech/WM - if he had wanted to go that route. He didn't. I was very proud of him for plotting his own course and he's loving UMW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

I know hear in DCUM-land, parents find this hard to believe, but there are actually many kids who have JMU, CNU, GMU, or UMW (and others) as their first choice. As in, UVA/W&M/Tech aren't the default first choice schools for a lot of people - it's about fit. I have two kids who aimed for JMU, and *only* JMU when they were in high school, because they loved it so much. My third child has all of the schools I listed as his top choices.

Stop thinking about prestige, and start thinking about where your child will be happiest.

This. Ours had zero desire to go to UVA/Tech, etc. or big schools in general. They also had no desire to stay at home for two years and transfer as juniors to a school they didn't want to go to in the first place. They went away to four year schools that were the right fit for them and it has been the best experience of their lives.

+100 to both PPs.

I wish I did this. I went to a prestigious pressure cooker university by DCUM standards and hated it. It was a bad fit all around. I ended up switching my major many times and transferring to a small no name college. I spent an extra year in college and never really had or enjoyed a true college experience. DH attended a community college and then a different small no name college.

The main lesson we learned is not to pressure kids into attending a school with the best name or the supposedly best program. We would support and encourage our children to attend a community college or a smaller school if that is what they think will be the best fit.

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever seen the completion rates for full time students after 2 yrs at NOVA? The number of students graduating after full time study in a degree seeking program for 2 yrs is scary low. Like in the single digits. The info is on their website. That alone tells me that it would take an extremely motivated student to finish in 2 yrs and be successful. And in that case those type of students are already very likely to have done very well in high school and have can easily get admission to a 4yr college.

I wouldn't want my child like that to frit away years at NOVA. The learning environment is just not there. And couple that was the extreme amount of ELL learners on their campuses I can't not for a minute imagine that the course work would be rigorous enoght to prepare a kid to enter high level classes at one of those 4 yr colleges.

Graduation rates are low at all community colleges, but they don't reflect all the students who entered intending to graduate or who moved or transfered. Plus, number wise, there's still a sizeable cohort who graduate in 2-3 years. And you also have to fit in the smart kids going part-time. But we get it, your kid is too good for CC (yet you will complain that he really deserved admission to UVA).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. My DC would never, ever agree to even consider a CC. Maybe learned that from us, maybe not, but many many college-bound HS students simply won't do it.

2. Risk: what if the program changes only after a student enters CC?

3. Risk: If the goal is CC to Top-Public, the grade requirements aren't a cakewalk. The 2+2 program is not a guarantee and admission to the top-3 (UVA, W&M, VT) remains challenging.

4. Could be harmful to have CC on one's transcript, for some grad school admissions in particular.

The program for UVA is, actually, a complete guarantee for achieving a 3.5 and taking a certain number of classes in certain subjrcts. A cakewalk? Maybe not. But not too hard to pull off. Anyone who starts in this program wound be grandfathered in, in the event of a change.

Sorry, PP, that simply isn't the case. Most of the individual agreement that govern NoVa contain provisions that permit the receiving 4-year college to terminate, and that require renegotiation and re-execution every three years; the UVA agreement is terminable on one year's notice, can be reviewed for modification at any time, and expressly provides no rights or remedies to an individual student-applicant. There's no binding grandfather clause in any of them.

Boy, something really sad would have to happen to the state of Higher Ed in Virginia for this ever to happen! It's hard to imagine what. Anyway, any college could in theory shut down, lose accreditation, whatever. Very unlikely to happen at the vast majority of public colleges, so not really worth worrying about.

Anonymous wrote:Can see doing this for financial reasons, but it is best to go and take the classes UVA (or other colleges) offer instead of classes that might be watered down for the lowest performing student. There are some great community college professors out there, but there are also people who just need a job and are being pressured by administration to pass as many students as they can.

Socially, it's going to be hard to break in at someplace like UVA if you don't go there as a freshman. For some students, they may not care and this may not matter at all, but for others it could lead to a miserable college experience.

~former faculty member at a community college in another state

Well, the two that I know who did this are doing great! One is getting a doctorate from a prestigious school and the other has a very good job in Nova. So, they must have managed the adjustment somehow.

Can see doing this for financial reasons, but it is best to go and take the classes UVA (or other colleges) offer instead of classes that might be watered down for the lowest performing student. There are some great community college professors out there, but there are also people who just need a job and are being pressured by administration to pass as many students as they can.

Socially, it's going to be hard to break in at someplace like UVA if you don't go there as a freshman. For some students, they may not care and this may not matter at all, but for others it could lead to a miserable college experience.

~former faculty member at a community college in another state

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. My DC would never, ever agree to even consider a CC. Maybe learned that from us, maybe not, but many many college-bound HS students simply won't do it.

2. Risk: what if the program changes only after a student enters CC?

3. Risk: If the goal is CC to Top-Public, the grade requirements aren't a cakewalk. The 2+2 program is not a guarantee and admission to the top-3 (UVA, W&M, VT) remains challenging.

4. Could be harmful to have CC on one's transcript, for some grad school admissions in particular.

The program for UVA is, actually, a complete guarantee for achieving a 3.5 and taking a certain number of classes in certain subjrcts. A cakewalk? Maybe not. But not too hard to pull off. Anyone who starts in this program wound be grandfathered in, in the event of a change.

Sorry, PP, that simply isn't the case. Most of the individual agreement that govern NoVa contain provisions that permit the receiving 4-year college to terminate, and that require renegotiation and re-execution every three years; the UVA agreement is terminable on one year's notice, can be reviewed for modification at any time, and expressly provides no rights or remedies to an individual student-applicant. There's no binding grandfather clause in any of them.

It's not in the contract, but I can't conceive of UVA dinging a kid midstream this way. Strange how you are almost hoping it's otherwise.

Sorry, PP, that simply isn't the case. Most of the individual agreement that govern NoVa contain provisions that permit the receiving 4-year college to terminate, and that require renegotiation and re-execution every three years; the UVA agreement is terminable on one year's notice, can be reviewed for modification at any time, and expressly provides no rights or remedies to an individual student-applicant. There's no binding grandfather clause in any of them.

This is very unlikely to happen. And, if it does, there are still other options.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. My DC would never, ever agree to even consider a CC. Maybe learned that from us, maybe not, but many many college-bound HS students simply won't do it.

2. Risk: what if the program changes only after a student enters CC?

3. Risk: If the goal is CC to Top-Public, the grade requirements aren't a cakewalk. The 2+2 program is not a guarantee and admission to the top-3 (UVA, W&M, VT) remains challenging.

4. Could be harmful to have CC on one's transcript, for some grad school admissions in particular.

The program for UVA is, actually, a complete guarantee for achieving a 3.5 and taking a certain number of classes in certain subjrcts. A cakewalk? Maybe not. But not too hard to pull off. Anyone who starts in this program wound be grandfathered in, in the event of a change.

Sorry, PP, that simply isn't the case. Most of the individual agreement that govern NoVa contain provisions that permit the receiving 4-year college to terminate, and that require renegotiation and re-execution every three years; the UVA agreement is terminable on one year's notice, can be reviewed for modification at any time, and expressly provides no rights or remedies to an individual student-applicant. There's no binding grandfather clause in any of them.

Anonymous wrote:Have you ever seen the completion rates for full time students after 2 yrs at NOVA? The number of students graduating after full time study in a degree seeking program for 2 yrs is scary low. Like in the single digits. The info is on their website. That alone tells me that it would take an extremely motivated student to finish in 2 yrs and be successful. And in that case those type of students are already very [b]likely to have done very well in high school and have can easily get admission to a 4yr college.

[/b] I wouldn't want my child like that to frit away years at NOVA. The learning environment is just not there. And couple that was the extreme amount of ELL learners on their campuses I can't not for a minute imagine that the course work would be rigorous enoght to prepare a kid to enter high level classes at one of those 4 yr colleges.

Sounds to me like your child chose a lower tier school and you are a little concerned that this would not have been a better option.

And, FWIW, the bolded expresses the point. Top tier schools are looking for motivated students--not ones who thought they could go to CC and get a "sure thing". No one has suggested that here.

And, another FWIW, plenty of kids who would do great at UVA or WM and were great students in high school, do not get admitted. And, maybe, just maybe, they had their heart set on one of those schools and are willing to wait two years to go there.

I had one child admitted to UVA and WM out of high school and another who was lucky to make it into a lower tier school. The child who went to the top tier school loved it there and did great there. The one who attended the lower tier school had an absolutely fantastic experience there.
Neither would have wanted to give up the four year experience in college. But, other families might not have the funds to help their kids and a lot of debt is not a good thing for a young college student. CC offers a terrific alternative. Sure, it is not for everyone, but it sounds like you really have a bone to pick with this issue.

Have you ever seen the completion rates for full time students after 2 yrs at NOVA? The number of students graduating after full time study in a degree seeking program for 2 yrs is scary low. Like in the single digits. The info is on their website. That alone tells me that it would take an extremely motivated student to finish in 2 yrs and be successful. And in that case those type of students are already very likely to have done very well in high school and have can easily get admission to a 4yr college.

I wouldn't want my child like that to frit away years at NOVA. The learning environment is just not there. And couple that was the extreme amount of ELL learners on their campuses I can't not for a minute imagine that the course work would be rigorous enoght to prepare a kid to enter high level classes at one of those 4 yr colleges.

I have a co-worker who did this. For her family it was money. She is considered a top performer within our organization.

FYI - I would have never known nor did I care that she went to CC for 2 years. Her salary is the same as her peers who graduated from one of the named VA schools.

I admire her work ethic and sense of reality. Many of her peers (4 year "elite" colleges) come of as entitled. When given the opportunity for special projects, I default to people who are not high maintenance to manage and will work with the 2 year CC person over some others.

Anonymous wrote:Medical schools do not like to see science classes from a CC. It would be impossible to take all the science retirements in a 2 year period.

False.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - - Nothing is Guaranteed.

Besides, maybe the grade distribution allots for only 10% of students in a particular class to get an A, a class needed for the transfer arrangement. Are you so foolish to think anyone can do it, that anyone can do it if only they would make the decision?

I'm guessing all these rah-rah community college posters are being asked/enlisted to promote the program.

lol. no. community colleges do not do that.

My son is at NVCC now. This has never happened.