Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If I'm working on a project with my own kids, we have a history. My kids know that if I say something, that I'll follow through with it, and that there are consequences for misbehavior. They've tested me time and time again, and I've come down with the same consequences.

If I'm working on a project with a stranger's kid, she doesn't know any of that. She still needs to 'test' me out to find out where my limits really lie.

There is no way that type of experiment would provide any legitimate insight into parenting styles.

It would provide insight into the child's style though.

My daughter (the absolute opposite of ODD - even tempered, adaptable, agreeable, wants to please authority figures) would work with pretty much any adult on a project together. She wouldn't need to test you to see where your limits are... she would respect an adult because that is her nature. Even an adult with a "bad" parenting style would look good when working with her, because conflicts wouldn't even come up so you'd never get a chance to see their lack of consistency, follow through etc.

Meanwhile if you took my ODD child and had him work with even a super great parent, one who had never experienced working with an inflexible, contrary ODD child before -- you'd see a completely unprepared parent flummoxed by a child who simply refused to get along.


I know if all I ever experienced was my daughter, I'd think I was a fantastic parent! Because I would never have really been tested.

Anonymous wrote:
If I'm working on a project with my own kids, we have a history. My kids know that if I say something, that I'll follow through with it, and that there are consequences for misbehavior. They've tested me time and time again, and I've come down with the same consequences.

If I'm working on a project with a stranger's kid, she doesn't know any of that. She still needs to 'test' me out to find out where my limits really lie.

There is no way that type of experiment would provide any legitimate insight into parenting styles.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an interesting topic. I read an article once about a study where they assigned "good" parents to work with "bad" kids on a project and in just a few hours the "good" parents regressed to "bad" parenting.

I'd like to see a link to that because it sounds like total crap. How could you ever compare by parenting someone else's kid. I am always way harder and more consistent with my own kids versus friends' or even my nephews.

Iirc it was an experiment where they were paired for several hours working on a project together.

Anonymous wrote:Every child I know with ODD was proclaimed "advanced" by parents, who blamed their behavior on their superior intellect. Predictable results.

Anonymous wrote:Every child I know with ODD was proclaimed "advanced" by parents, who blamed their behavior on their superior intellect. Predictable results.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an interesting topic. I read an article once about a study where they assigned "good" parents to work with "bad" kids on a project and in just a few hours the "good" parents regressed to "bad" parenting.

I'd like to see a link to that because it sounds like total crap. How could you ever compare by parenting someone else's kid. I am always way harder and more consistent with my own kids versus friends' or even my nephews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

Anonymous wrote:It's an interesting topic. I read an article once about a study where they assigned "good" parents to work with "bad" kids on a project and in just a few hours the "good" parents regressed to "bad" parenting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.