Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

Yeah using vacation to care for your newborn and avoid sending them to daycare at 12 weeks is so awful... You should only allow employees to use vacation for things like trips to the Bahamas.

The fact your employee even has to use vacation to care for a helpless baby is wrong and pathetic. What is wrong with men?! Why are us women contuining to work for men like this and being governed by rules and laws clearly created only for the benefit of men? For example, retirement.

Like others have said, she made a CHOICE to have a baby. A CHOICE. I choose to go on vacation. It's not a better or worse choice. So when I want to go to the Bahamas, someone who's already had 12 weeks off for a CHOICE should step up to cover. BYE.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would deny it. I'm a fed and returned from maternity leave (unpaid 12 weeks) in October and wasn't allowed to use any leave in November or December so that my coworkers could take Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. They'd had to cover for me for 3 months and weren't allowed to take leave then. I didn't have any leave anyways to take holidays, but it was depressing working on Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving knowing my 3 month old was in daycare. It is what it is. I think OP is very reasonable.

12 weeks for a fed seems like a short time.

I'm a fed and I'm provided with 20 weeks leave. 8 weeks paid sick leave to recover from my c section (I have accumulated the sick leave). Then I invoke FMLA for 12 weeks unpaid leave for bonding with my child (12 weeks FMLA may be used within the year). This was verified by my HR department and I read the applicable OPM manual on leave. I was fully aware of my leave entitlements before taking leave and discussing said leave with my supervisor.

I'm a long term fed and no one I know has taken longer than 12 weeks. We aren't highly paid and few can afford more than 12 weeks unpaid.

Anonymous wrote:Your employee is not coming back. This is her way of getting "paid out" her vacation time, which she probably knows she wouldn't get if she tells you she isn't coming back right now.

Yup.

Your employee is not coming back. This is her way of getting "paid out" her vacation time, which she probably knows she wouldn't get if she tells you she isn't coming back right now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pathetic. I hope you have all daughters and one day have to listen to how they are forced to choose between returning to work too early and leaving a tiny infant in daycare or with a stranger and quitting their jobs and becoming 100 percent dependent on their husband.

You're a horrible human being and obviously have little respect for the gender who brings life into this world. Guarantee you that you'd be all about providing military leave for men who elect to go and blow people up abroad.

So when is it not too early? 12 weeks paid leave seems pretty good to me. Having a child is a choice, so as an adult you should plan accordingly for that day that you need to come back to work, if that is even what she plans to do. Who really knows. Businesses wouldn't stay in business if every woman came back when they felt ready. The only people that should be supporting her now is her partner, family and friends.

It's a choice most couples make. Kind of like how working is technically a "choice" but most people want to work. There isn't any other way right now for someone to have children besides giving birth and having a newborn. Adoption yes, but obviously not everyone can adopt. Retirement is technically a "choice" too but we agree that it's a worthwhile benefit. I would say six months is appropriate and is in line with other developed countries. I don't think the benefit should be paid by employers when the leave is taken but instead should be some sort of payroll tax.

I'm all for longer paid leave but at the moment the US isn't there with the rest of the developed countries. All I'm saying is that people need to plan for their childcare by keeping in mind the benefits legally available to them at the moment, not what they think they deserve. However, if your employer denied your benefits after having already approved it then that would be a different story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

As usual DCUM is over-reacting. OP never said or implied s/he hated women or that s/he lacked respect for women.

As usual DCUM is being myopic. What about the other people at this small business who want to take leave? Perhaps some of them are parents as well. It is summer and other people want to spend time with their families, not just this one employee. Heck even if they are single and child free other employees also have the right to time off.

OP I think you have been given some good advice. If you value this employee try to figure out what the issue is. Would part time help? Would one more week off help? See how you can work with her. I agree with others that she should have been clear about the amount of time she planned to take from the start so if this is out of character for her try to find out that is going on. Maybe her child care fell through. Maybe she decided she doesn't want to come back. Maybe she is struggling with PPD. Who knows.

If she never plans to come back it might be best to just pay out her vacation and start looking for a replacement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pathetic. I hope you have all daughters and one day have to listen to how they are forced to choose between returning to work too early and leaving a tiny infant in daycare or with a stranger and quitting their jobs and becoming 100 percent dependent on their husband.

You're a horrible human being and obviously have little respect for the gender who brings life into this world. Guarantee you that you'd be all about providing military leave for men who elect to go and blow people up abroad.

So when is it not too early? 12 weeks paid leave seems pretty good to me. Having a child is a choice, so as an adult you should plan accordingly for that day that you need to come back to work, if that is even what she plans to do. Who really knows. Businesses wouldn't stay in business if every woman came back when they felt ready. The only people that should be supporting her now is her partner, family and friends.

If it's a choice then are you okay with most educated women being forced to stay at home with kids due to a lack of sufficient leave? Are you okay with most children in this country being born by women who so poor that dropping out of the workforce doesn't matter? Are you okay with a significant percentage of the able bodied citizens not working and paying taxes? because there are serious implications to people viewing having children as a true "choice." If you think it's a choice then you should also believe that many illnesses are choices and that retirement is a choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

Anonymous wrote:Universal short term disability should be charged to all employees/employers just like social security (but at a much lower rate). Maternity leave should be covered as a short term disability.

All people (even men) are much more likely to need disability insurance than life insurance.

While I agree that most people will need disability at some point in their life, I find it hard to believe that the percent of people who become disabled is higher than the percent of people who will die.

Anonymous wrote:Pathetic. I hope you have all daughters and one day have to listen to how they are forced to choose between returning to work too early and leaving a tiny infant in daycare or with a stranger and quitting their jobs and becoming 100 percent dependent on their husband.

You're a horrible human being and obviously have little respect for the gender who brings life into this world. Guarantee you that you'd be all about providing military leave for men who elect to go and blow people up abroad.

This employer has given his employee 3 months of paid leave, while allowing her to keep her accrued leave. 3 more months than she's entitled to by law. For a small employer, that's incredibly generous. We should be thanking him/her, not judging him/her for not providing more. Attacking people who have gone above and beyond, is not the solution.

Would I love to see every woman in our country get the kind of leave offered in other countries, but in order for that to happen we'll need some kind of national insurance program. Otherwise, the burden on small employers will be entirely unfair.

I'll also point out for any DCUM "middle class" families who feel that this is so unfair, that Canada, a country whose maternity leave policies are often held up as a model, caps paid leave at $485 a week. So, while families get 50 weeks, the total amount that they get ($24,250) could be less than this mom has gotten, depending on her income.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pathetic. I hope you have all daughters and one day have to listen to how they are forced to choose between returning to work too early and leaving a tiny infant in daycare or with a stranger and quitting their jobs and becoming 100 percent dependent on their husband.

You're a horrible human being and obviously have little respect for the gender who brings life into this world. Guarantee you that you'd be all about providing military leave for men who elect to go and blow people up abroad.

So when is it not too early? 12 weeks paid leave seems pretty good to me. Having a child is a choice, so as an adult you should plan accordingly for that day that you need to come back to work, if that is even what she plans to do. Who really knows. Businesses wouldn't stay in business if every woman came back when they felt ready. The only people that should be supporting her now is her partner, family and friends.

It's a choice most couples make. Kind of like how working is technically a "choice" but most people want to work. There isn't any other way right now for someone to have children besides giving birth and having a newborn. Adoption yes, but obviously not everyone can adopt. Retirement is technically a "choice" too but we agree that it's a worthwhile benefit. I would say six months is appropriate and is in line with other developed countries. I don't think the benefit should be paid by employers when the leave is taken but instead should be some sort of payroll tax.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would deny it. I'm a fed and returned from maternity leave (unpaid 12 weeks) in October and wasn't allowed to use any leave in November or December so that my coworkers could take Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. They'd had to cover for me for 3 months and weren't allowed to take leave then. I didn't have any leave anyways to take holidays, but it was depressing working on Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving knowing my 3 month old was in daycare. It is what it is. I think OP is very reasonable.

12 weeks for a fed seems like a short time.

I'm a fed and I'm provided with 20 weeks leave. 8 weeks paid sick leave to recover from my c section (I have accumulated the sick leave). Then I invoke FMLA for 12 weeks unpaid leave for bonding with my child (12 weeks FMLA may be used within the year). This was verified by my HR department and I read the applicable OPM manual on leave. I was fully aware of my leave entitlements before taking leave and discussing said leave with my supervisor.

A natural childbirth would entitle you to 6 weeks sick leave. For feds, sick leave (recovery childbirth) and FMLA leave (bonding with child) are two different leave entitlements for birth of a child.

Universal short term disability should be charged to all employees/employers just like social security (but at a much lower rate). Maternity leave should be covered as a short term disability.

All people (even men) are much more likely to need disability insurance than life insurance.

Anonymous wrote:I would deny it. I'm a fed and returned from maternity leave (unpaid 12 weeks) in October and wasn't allowed to use any leave in November or December so that my coworkers could take Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. They'd had to cover for me for 3 months and weren't allowed to take leave then. I didn't have any leave anyways to take holidays, but it was depressing working on Christmas Eve and the Friday after Thanksgiving knowing my 3 month old was in daycare. It is what it is. I think OP is very reasonable.

12 weeks for a fed seems like a short time.

I'm a fed and I'm provided with 20 weeks leave. 8 weeks paid sick leave to recover from my c section (I have accumulated the sick leave). Then I invoke FMLA for 12 weeks unpaid leave for bonding with my child (12 weeks FMLA may be used within the year). This was verified by my HR department and I read the applicable OPM manual on leave. I was fully aware of my leave entitlements before taking leave and discussing said leave with my supervisor.