Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:42     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:My issue with BSA is not that it's a religious organization or even that religious underpinnings were the basis for overt discrimination against homosexuals for over a century (since that is currently being addressed - finally). My objection is that it specifically discriminates against one specific belief system while accepting all others in a manner which is capricious and has, as many people have pointed out, pretty much nothing to do with their core activities or the values of good citizenship that they promote.

As the poster who suggested that atheists believe that they are the "be-all and end-all of the universe" has demonstrated, this promotes the pernicious, widespread, and demonstrably false belief that atheism is antithetical to strong personal morals and good citizenship. I cannot support that message.

Think about how you might feel about the BSA if, instead of excluding atheists, they specifically excluded Hindus, or Buddhists. What if the rule was "no polytheists allowed" or "no Wiccans" or "no Scientologists?" Discrimination against atheists is still accepted in this country in a way that discrimination against other belief systems is not. It shouldn't be.


The organization gets to make the rules. Not you. You are the one making a huge deal about this. Every organization has some beliefs. A belief in God is central to this organization, as per the FOUNDER.

Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:36     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:My issue with BSA is not that it's a religious organization or even that religious underpinnings were the basis for overt discrimination against homosexuals for over a century (since that is currently being addressed - finally). My objection is that it specifically discriminates against one specific belief system while accepting all others in a manner which is capricious and has, as many people have pointed out, pretty much nothing to do with their core activities or the values of good citizenship that they promote.

As the poster who suggested that atheists believe that they are the "be-all and end-all of the universe" has demonstrated, this promotes the pernicious, widespread, and demonstrably false belief that atheism is antithetical to strong personal morals and good citizenship. I cannot support that message.

Think about how you might feel about the BSA if, instead of excluding atheists, they specifically excluded Hindus, or Buddhists. What if the rule was "no polytheists allowed" or "no Wiccans" or "no Scientologists?" Discrimination against atheists is still accepted in this country in a way that discrimination against other belief systems is not. It shouldn't be.


I just do not think it is possible for one private organization to be everything to everybody. An atheist on this thread has already said that they allowed their kid to participate in scouting because their kid really enjoyed the activities. Maybe that poster didn't agree with the wording in every ceremony but they were respectful enough of the organization and the other members to adapt.

So I disagree that BSA discriminates against atheists. No one is going to demand proof that you have religious beliefs. You are free to attend the meeting and simply go through the motions if that is all it is to you. But you shouldn't expect flag ceremonies or anything with a religious component to be done away with just because you don't have religious beliefs.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:29     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Do adults use dork?
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:24     Subject: Re:Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:From the founder of Scouting, Lord Robert Baden Powell:


https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/10/03/belief-in-god-scouting/


“Duty to God” has always been a cornerstone of Scouting. Lord Robert Baden-Powell affirmed this on numerous occasions. B-P once responded to a question about the importance of faith (religion) in Scouting by saying: “Where does religion come in? Well, my reply is … it does not come in at all. It is already there. It is the fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding.”

To further emphasize the importance of faith In American Scouting, early leaders incorporated a 12th point into the Scout Law: “a Scout is reverent.”


Attending a Scout meeting was never like attending a religious service. Not even close. But there are certainly components in the various ceremonies and some of the badge activities that have a religious aspect to them. It is not "in your face" but it is there.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:16     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
My issue with BSA is not that it's a religious organization or even that religious underpinnings were the basis for overt discrimination against homosexuals for over a century (since that is currently being addressed - finally). My objection is that it specifically discriminates against one specific belief system while accepting all others in a manner which is capricious and has, as many people have pointed out, pretty much nothing to do with their core activities or the values of good citizenship that they promote.

As the poster who suggested that atheists believe that they are the "be-all and end-all of the universe" has demonstrated, this promotes the pernicious, widespread, and demonstrably false belief that atheism is antithetical to strong personal morals and good citizenship. I cannot support that message.

Think about how you might feel about the BSA if, instead of excluding atheists, they specifically excluded Hindus, or Buddhists. What if the rule was "no polytheists allowed" or "no Wiccans" or "no Scientologists?" Discrimination against atheists is still accepted in this country in a way that discrimination against other belief systems is not. It shouldn't be.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:07     Subject: Re:Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
From the founder of Scouting, Lord Robert Baden Powell:


https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/10/03/belief-in-god-scouting/


“Duty to God” has always been a cornerstone of Scouting. Lord Robert Baden-Powell affirmed this on numerous occasions. B-P once responded to a question about the importance of faith (religion) in Scouting by saying: “Where does religion come in? Well, my reply is … it does not come in at all. It is already there. It is the fundamental factor underlying Scouting and Guiding.”

To further emphasize the importance of faith In American Scouting, early leaders incorporated a 12th point into the Scout Law: “a Scout is reverent.”
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:05     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.


Eh. We're atheists and DS loves scouts. It was recommended by his therapist for him to deal with social anxiety and it's definitely been helpful that way. I'm sure many would tell us we're horrid because we basically give DS the greenlight to mouth the religious stuff without believing it, but I grew up with rigid parents who denied me some fun memories because of their righteousness, and I'm not interested in telling him he can't do something benign that he really likes just because he has to say an oath that mentions a god he doesn't believe in.

My main beef has always been with their stance on gay scouts and scoutmasters, and they have improved on some of that recently, but luckily DS belongs to a very liberal troop (that probably includes quite a few atheists), and we also talk to him about the issue. And we don't give money to the national office.

I also wish they didn't have to wear the silly uniforms, but whatever.

Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 14:02     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
My 14 year old nephew is a Boy Scout and it has been really good for him. He is not interested in sports so it gives him an outlet to get some physical activity and social interaction. He is a pretty immature kid and socially awkward so having some good role models in the leaders and older boys has been a positive experience. For some kids Scouts can be fantastic, for others it is not.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:46     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.


It is a group that asks a Scout to have some sort of faith; Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc.. So yes, doesn't sound like it's for you. But that's your loss, not theirs.


PP, you're basically saying: yes, the Boy Scouts discriminate against boys who don't have a religion, and that's good.

What's your goal here?


That's it's good to have faith in someone/something bigger than yourself? That you are not the be-all, end-all of the universe?

Anyway, skip Scouts and deny your son if you feel you must. (Would you disown him if he decided to join some sort of religious organization later?)


I'm a different poster. I don't have any sons. I just wondered why you went to the effort of sharing your opinion that it's good to discriminate against non-believers.


Np. People have taken the time to share their experiences with scouting. In my opinion, it was one of the most valuable experiences that we had with our kids - so glad that we did that with them! There is not a huge religious component to it at all but if you are uncomfortable participating in flag ceremonies, for instance - that is something for you to consider before you allow your son to participate in scouting. Maybe scouting is not your cup of tea. That's o.k. There are plenty of other activities out there that might suit your needs better.



Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:46     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.


I think discrimination against atheists is not the right interpretation here. Scouts clearly has a religious basis (people saying above that it doesn't aren't paying attention). The Boy Scout oath begins "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law."

Scouts discriminates in the same way the Washington Ethical Society "discriminates" against Christians--it's a private club that is rooted in a belief you don't share. I don't think that is worthy of any outrage (I agree with you on it's past problems with treatments of homosexuals btw).


I'm not understanding why it's necessary to have a religious belief in order to camp, learn useful skills, and do community service.


It's not necessary but it is a basic part of the BSA. Nobody is making you join the BSA if you have a problem with the acknowledgement of a higher power. It's a private organization.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:41     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:
I'm concerned about him picking up bad habits or offensive ideas/language from other boys who aren't being raised by parents who make efforts to make sure they are sensitive and respectful of others.



BWAHahahha, this post has to be a joke. If it's not, OP, you are clueless. I hope your son DOES join and is exposed to quality people - because you sure aren't.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:40     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.


I think discrimination against atheists is not the right interpretation here. Scouts clearly has a religious basis (people saying above that it doesn't aren't paying attention). The Boy Scout oath begins "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law."

Scouts discriminates in the same way the Washington Ethical Society "discriminates" against Christians--it's a private club that is rooted in a belief you don't share. I don't think that is worthy of any outrage (I agree with you on it's past problems with treatments of homosexuals btw).


I'm not understanding why it's necessary to have a religious belief in order to camp, learn useful skills, and do community service.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:36     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:


This is a voluntary group -- no one is "discriminating" against atheists. Belief in God is a cornerstone of the organization. Like service is. You can't be a Boy Scout unless you do a LOT of community service.


One does not preclude the other. Even voluntary groups can discriminate. As BSA does -- at least officially. Officially BSA also used to discriminate against gay men and boys, but fortunately that is no longer the official position.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:36     Subject: Re:Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:The his has to be a troll. I found me it hard to believe a parent would talk like that. If you aren't a troll I recommend a little self evaluation because the irony of your post is too much.


+1

No way this is a real post. It's some teen trying to gin up controversy about boy scouts. Probably has a latent desire to be a boy scout, but not the courage to actually do something.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2017 13:35     Subject: Is Boy Scouts a thing now? DS wants to get into it, but I have some concerns.
Anonymous wrote:Leaving aside the issue of whether OP is a troll, I am not going to let my son join the Boy Scouts. The activities are great but, fortunately, there are plenty of opportunities to engage in similar activities without the Boy Scouts (e.g. 4H). More importantly, while it is good that, after years of intense pressure, the Boy Scouts are finally in the process of addressing their overt discrimination against homosexuals, they continue to be a non-sectarian religious organization that discriminates against atheists and, ironically, has encouraged atheist scouts to lie about their beliefs in order to remain in the organization.

Nope. Not for my son.


I think discrimination against atheists is not the right interpretation here. Scouts clearly has a religious basis (people saying above that it doesn't aren't paying attention). The Boy Scout oath begins "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law."

Scouts discriminates in the same way the Washington Ethical Society "discriminates" against Christians--it's a private club that is rooted in a belief you don't share. I don't think that is worthy of any outrage (I agree with you on it's past problems with treatments of homosexuals btw).