Trying to get back to OP's initial point, I think there is some merit to what she says. I'm an older Gen-X. I graduated about 25 years ago. The pattern that OP describes existed in my generation as well, but the prime difference is that the luxury spenders were a smaller minority of our generation. I still have friends and acquaintances who do not own because they did what they wanted including going to expensive schools, carrying school loans, not paying down debt and spending barely within their means with no savings. The majority of our generation paid down their loans, saved up and purchased homes. What I see is that the millennial generation has many more of this type who spend more than save and do not have the potential to purchase homes. I do know millennials who have the same work ethic that my peers and I had and get themselves out of debt and purchase homes. But there are far fewer of them percentage-wise than my generation and earlier.

The other issue is that the millennial generation has a lot more internal competition. There is a significantly greater portion of their generation who went to college and/or post-college educations and there are far more of them competing for the same or possibly fewer positions. There are far fewer millennials who are going into trades and apprenticeship type jobs than our generation. Our generation had significantly more that went to auto school, cooking school, trades like carpentry, electrical, plumbing. I know far fewer millennials choosing those paths. Far more choosing college and as such, with many more college grads, JDs, MDs, PhDs, Business Masters, etc, there are more of them than jobs. So you end up with a lot more highly educated millennials taking lesser paid jobs or not getting jobs than in earlier generations.

The combination means that far fewer millennials will be able to purchase homes within 20 years of graduating college than prior generations. Many have their own habits to blame, but many do not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really believe this is why we can't afford houses or pay off student loans, I have a very affordable bridge to sell you. Killer deal. But your mentality lets me know that you are def one of the ones who ruined the economy for us. Now you sit back hypothesizing about every other thing that could be wrong but you will never accept responsibility for how you set us up for failure. Thanks, geezer.

I know it's hard for you to fathom, but prior generations did face bad economic times. I came out of school just in time for the Bush I recession of 1991/2. Job and housing market were both in the shitter. That was back when if your house was under water, that was your problem, not the government's. Even the military was laying people off. Kids coming out of school found jobs, moved out from their parents, and got started with their lives. They didn't sit around bitching about how they'd been set up for failure. Grow up.

SOME kids moved out from their parents place and got jobs and lived off little to nothing, others probably did move in with their parents to save money (or sit on their asses and do nothing). Millennials aren't universally doing poorly, nor is every millennial buying $40 candles at Union Market on the weekends. Some live with their parents, some complain, others live with roommates, some of us own houses and have kids.

(also, what will the government do now about a house underwater?)

I'm NP btw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most of my friends who are now 40ish still do not own homes. most are contemplating leaving DC to get enough space for their small families. Most do not want to leave.

I lived in a group house for 7 years, with boyfriend for 4 before getting married. I have never owned a car and I spent months eating $0.75 mac n cheese for lunch and going out with friends only 1x/wk. I STILL cannot afford a home in a relatively safe neighborhood. I have zero student loans. I have worked my tail off for 15 years at my job. A 3br, 1200 sq ft home zoned for Wilson simply isn't available for under $1M. And if I move out of the city, that likely means 2 car payments. This place is insane.

The world does not owe you a home in the DC area. It's expensive here, no doubt. It can be a cool place to live. But some people cannot afford to live here, even though they might very much want to. It's cold reality.

Please point me to the section wehre I said "the world owes me a house". Idiot.

You could easily buy a SFH in Arlington on the Orange/Silver line for $750K. It will be old and crappy, but you will be in your own house.

Here's one for 675 - https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/5724-16th-St-N-22205/home/11237139 3BR, 1400 sq ft, Yorktown HS.

You're missing her point. She wants a 3br, 1200 sq ft home zoned for Wilson. She's not going to settle for Yorktown. She deserves to live in DC, in the best neighborhood with the best schools. But she isn't willing to pay for that, because how would she buy $38 candles and Japanese knives on the weekend?

Anonymous wrote:If you really believe this is why we can't afford houses or pay off student loans, I have a very affordable bridge to sell you. Killer deal. But your mentality lets me know that you are def one of the ones who ruined the economy for us. Now you sit back hypothesizing about every other thing that could be wrong but you will never accept responsibility for how you set us up for failure. Thanks, geezer.

I know it's hard for you to fathom, but prior generations did face bad economic times. I came out of school just in time for the Bush I recession of 1991/2. Job and housing market were both in the shitter. That was back when if your house was under water, that was your problem, not the government's. Even the military was laying people off. Kids coming out of school found jobs, moved out from their parents, and got started with their lives. They didn't sit around bitching about how they'd been set up for failure. Grow up.

Anonymous wrote:I'm 35 almost 36 and am told that I am the oldest of the millenials. I didn't get a cell phone until law school, and even then it was a prepaid. To me, it's not generational differences. Everyone says the same things about whoever is young right now. It's socioeconomic differences. I grew up blue collar working class and am very financially conservative and boring as a result.

I have an ipad and an iphone, but not the latest of each. We have children, and childcare, and a house we bought 10 years ago when I worked in biglaw and we bought well under budget. Served me well when getting laid off from biglaw. The difference between the savers and the spenders was very apparent then!

Many younger millenials I see spend plenty of dining and bars, but they are all single and I can't say I wouldn't be doing the same thing. To me, the big, big difference is all the travel. Anything other than backpacking is, to me, a luxury--a life-altering, worldview-expanding luxury, but a luxury nonetheless, and to a t, all the younger millenials I know who do it are either subsidized by parents or have 10K+ in credit card debt to finance those trips.

I'm a couple months older than you (just turned 36) and I agree it must be something about upbringing, but I don't know if it's socioeconomic per se. I grew up upper middle class but my spending habits sound the same as yours. DH and I each have 3 year old iphones that we will not replace until they die; my computer is 5 years old and DH has a new one only because he killed his old one by spilling coffee on it. No ipads. One TV that is 7 years old. One car that is 4 years old and we hope it will last into its teens. Expensive but small, crappy house in a good school district. We both spent just enough time in biglaw to frantically pay off our law school and college loans (about $150k each, took 3 to 5 years), amass a down payment for the house and enough money to pay for our wedding, then jumped ship to government attorney jobs which pay well but nothing like Biglaw. I am a GS-15 and even if I eventually reach the top of the scale, it won't pay what I made as a second year associate! We took one international vacation a year while in Biglaw, and did the backpacking/youth hostel/cheap B&B route. Even in Hawaii. Now we have kids and don't travel. We definitely eat out and get takeout too often -- I was doing the budget the other day to prepare for daycare for kid #2 and was horrified to see how much money the food comes out to! Gotta cut back on that for sure.

When I was a young kid my parents worried about money all the time, drove crappy old cars, lived in a crappy old house, etc, so that even though they made good money -- dad a doctor, mom a teacher -- my sister and I grew up with a strong sense that we needed to economize and work hard. We both worked babysitting and camp counseling jobs as teenagers, worked summers in college, etc. My parents prioritized school and academic accomplishments and sent us to camp, but we were also expected to earn money for spending -- by getting a job or doing extra chores. My cousins' kids, who are all teenagers now, don't work at all as far as I can tell. And take uber everywhere. And go out for Starbucks with their friends. And see movies every weekend -- which, to be fair, I did as a kid too, but it cost $5 and I paid from my own money that I earned. Etc. Oh and they all have iphones. It's a different world with different expectations technologically, but I also think my cousins are not adequately instilling a sense of what things cost. My kids are toddlers still so I can't say I will do any better. But I hope to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennial here.
Bought a starter townhouse at the bottom of the market. Still had student loans. Just sold and bought our forever house. Still have student loans to pay off, but can now afford to pay them off more quickly.
Contrary to this board, many people have student loans and mortgages. It is possible.
Get off your high horse.

Forever house already? Now, you see, that is the difference between thinking wisely and prudently. You shouldn't have bought your dream house while still paying off student loans. You should have stayed in the starter home until you paid off your other loans. You are proving OP's point. Too much, too soon.

Go away, loser.

NP.

And this is exactly the problem with young people today. Somebody disagrees with you, you come up with a witty reply as this! Uneducated slobs. My point stands, your point is what? That having a big house you can barely afford and ton of debt is a way to success? I own two houses bought in cash, because I am a loser. Millenials are incapalbe of accepting any criticism as you just pointed out. One day I will meet you as you are checking out my purchases at the grocery store.

That you're a douche.

And witticism never ends! How proud your parents must be, you can't even write a complex sentence.

Lol, go back and read your post before you accuse others of shoddy writing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most of my friends who are now 40ish still do not own homes. most are contemplating leaving DC to get enough space for their small families. Most do not want to leave.

I lived in a group house for 7 years, with boyfriend for 4 before getting married. I have never owned a car and I spent months eating $0.75 mac n cheese for lunch and going out with friends only 1x/wk. I STILL cannot afford a home in a relatively safe neighborhood. I have zero student loans. I have worked my tail off for 15 years at my job. A 3br, 1200 sq ft home zoned for Wilson simply isn't available for under $1M. And if I move out of the city, that likely means 2 car payments. This place is insane.

The world does not owe you a home in the DC area. It's expensive here, no doubt. It can be a cool place to live. But some people cannot afford to live here, even though they might very much want to. It's cold reality.

Please point me to the section wehre I said "the world owes me a house". Idiot.

You could easily buy a SFH in Arlington on the Orange/Silver line for $750K. It will be old and crappy, but you will be in your own house.

Here's one for 675 - https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/5724-16th-St-N-22205/home/11237139 3BR, 1400 sq ft, Yorktown HS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you really believe this is why we can't afford houses or pay off student loans, I have a very affordable bridge to sell you. Killer deal. But your mentality lets me know that you are def one of the ones who ruined the economy for us. Now you sit back hypothesizing about every other thing that could be wrong but you will never accept responsibility for how you set us up for failure. Thanks, geezer.

I'm not OP and I'd wager I'm about 10 years older than you. There is some validity to OP's point. OTOH, if I was fairly certain that I could never afford a $675K condo or a $1.7 million colonial on the Red Line, no matter how far up the ladder I moved in my nonprofit, I would personally be tempted to buy $18 bespoke cocktails, too, like you guys. I mean, what do you have to lose? You're never going to close that gap between your income and real estate, esp with your loan debt from Haverford (vs. In-State U.)

Bingo.

This is why lower-income populations buy themselves stuff. It's because they feel stuck, and often they ARE stuck. It's a combination of intelligence, risk-taking, hard work and luck that picks some members of the herd and floats them upwards into the upper middle class.

OP can look down his nose as much as he wants, but his kids might end up in the same boat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivy League class of '01. Bought my starter home in 2010 with my mother as cosigner on the loan and she put up $20K towards the down payment. Just paid her off a few months ago (zero percent interest loan) and we're refinancing to take her off the title/mortgage. Plus she helps out with daycare payments every once in a while when we are short. Still have barely started contributing to the 529 plan yet.

Don't blame milennials.

You're 15 years out of college and your mother covers day care bills?! That Ivy League degree sure is paying off

Yes, that was exactly my point, but I guess you are too wrapped up in yourself to understand.

two people have now 'misinterpreted' your post, according to you. I guess the writing skills from an Ivy are not what most would expect.

Or maybe they're just dumb

+1

+2.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivy League class of '01. Bought my starter home in 2010 with my mother as cosigner on the loan and she put up $20K towards the down payment. Just paid her off a few months ago (zero percent interest loan) and we're refinancing to take her off the title/mortgage. Plus she helps out with daycare payments every once in a while when we are short. Still have barely started contributing to the 529 plan yet.

Don't blame milennials.

You're 15 years out of college and your mother covers day care bills?! That Ivy League degree sure is paying off

Yes, that was exactly my point, but I guess you are too wrapped up in yourself to understand.

two people have now 'misinterpreted' your post, according to you. I guess the writing skills from an Ivy are not what most would expect.

Or maybe they're just dumb

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivy League class of '01. Bought my starter home in 2010 with my mother as cosigner on the loan and she put up $20K towards the down payment. Just paid her off a few months ago (zero percent interest loan) and we're refinancing to take her off the title/mortgage. Plus she helps out with daycare payments every once in a while when we are short. Still have barely started contributing to the 529 plan yet.

Don't blame milennials.

You're 15 years out of college and your mother covers day care bills?! That Ivy League degree sure is paying off

Yes, that was exactly my point, but I guess you are too wrapped up in yourself to understand.

two people have now 'misinterpreted' your post, according to you. I guess the writing skills from an Ivy are not what most would expect.

Or maybe they're just dumb

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most millenials ARE living with roommates, or living at home with their parents to save money.

My loans will be forgiven in 5 years. No I did not go to an overpriced university. I went to an inexpensive law school and graduated with $70k in loans that I couldn't pay off because the job was shit (thanks to those who crashed the economy while I was in college buying homes they couldn't afford or didn't have the income to purchase thanks to no accountability!), and the interest rates were high so my debt has doubled while I've been working a low paying job. Yes I will use the public program that is available so that my loans go away as soon as I qualify. The government is what caused the problem, and the government is going to fix it.

BTW, I'm a single mom (and DV survivor), and I live in a neighborhood of DC that has not gentrified, in my own modest home that I purchased using the low income tax abatement and a down payment assistance program. I'm going to use the funds available to me to make my life better and more stable. Not only that, I'm going to artificially depress my AGI until my loans are discharged (by contributing a higher than average amount to my 401k) so that my loans payments stay low. I figure my 70 year old self will thank me in about 35 years.

I figure if this country elected a person who is "smart" enough to figure out the loopholes so they don't have to pay any taxes, I can play games with my money too.

You seem to be doing just fine working the system.

Everyone who successfully gets ahead in life works the system. I'll take that as a compliment

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most of my friends who are now 40ish still do not own homes. most are contemplating leaving DC to get enough space for their small families. Most do not want to leave.

I lived in a group house for 7 years, with boyfriend for 4 before getting married. I have never owned a car and I spent months eating $0.75 mac n cheese for lunch and going out with friends only 1x/wk. I STILL cannot afford a home in a relatively safe neighborhood. I have zero student loans. I have worked my tail off for 15 years at my job. A 3br, 1200 sq ft home zoned for Wilson simply isn't available for under $1M. And if I move out of the city, that likely means 2 car payments. This place is insane.

The world does not owe you a home in the DC area. It's expensive here, no doubt. It can be a cool place to live. But some people cannot afford to live here, even though they might very much want to. It's cold reality.

Please point me to the section wehre I said "the world owes me a house". Idiot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most millenials ARE living with roommates, or living at home with their parents to save money.

My loans will be forgiven in 5 years. No I did not go to an overpriced university. I went to an inexpensive law school and graduated with $70k in loans that I couldn't pay off because the job was shit (thanks to those who crashed the economy while I was in college buying homes they couldn't afford or didn't have the income to purchase thanks to no accountability!), and the interest rates were high so my debt has doubled while I've been working a low paying job. Yes I will use the public program that is available so that my loans go away as soon as I qualify. The government is what caused the problem, and the government is going to fix it.

BTW, I'm a single mom (and DV survivor), and I live in a neighborhood of DC that has not gentrified, in my own modest home that I purchased using the low income tax abatement and a down payment assistance program. I'm going to use the funds available to me to make my life better and more stable. Not only that, I'm going to artificially depress my AGI until my loans are discharged (by contributing a higher than average amount to my 401k) so that my loans payments stay low. I figure my 70 year old self will thank me in about 35 years.

I figure if this country elected a person who is "smart" enough to figure out the loopholes so they don't have to pay any taxes, I can play games with my money too.

You seem to be doing just fine working the system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from college in the early 90s and no one was buying houses right out of college.

Everyone either had roommates, or was married. Some people stillmlived with their parents.

The homes were not single family homes in hip expensive neighborhoods. They were suburban apartments or town houses for those who wanted a little nicer homes, or dives in the city.

I don't know why millenials aren't doing the same, ie getting roommates and living in less than ideal starter apartments just like everyone else. I think a lot of their housing issues are because they have a warped hgtv idea of what their first place should look like, and think they deserve more so they just decide to live with mom and dad instead so they have fun money and nice things.

I have no idea why they are too irresponsible topay off their college loans.

They might be educated, but they failed at basic consumer math when they chose to take out these exceptionally expensive loans for degrees that aren't marketable and from overpriced expensive universities.

They should not get their debt forgiven. That is unfair to everyon who met their debt obligation or who made better, more responsible choices.

Most of my friends who are now 40ish still do not own homes. most are contemplating leaving DC to get enough space for their small families. Most do not want to leave.

I lived in a group house for 7 years, with boyfriend for 4 before getting married. I have never owned a car and I spent months eating $0.75 mac n cheese for lunch and going out with friends only 1x/wk. I STILL cannot afford a home in a relatively safe neighborhood. I have zero student loans. I have worked my tail off for 15 years at my job. A 3br, 1200 sq ft home zoned for Wilson simply isn't available for under $1M. And if I move out of the city, that likely means 2 car payments. This place is insane.

The world does not owe you a home in the DC area. It's expensive here, no doubt. It can be a cool place to live. But some people cannot afford to live here, even though they might very much want to. It's cold reality.