Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have three Master's Degrees and I am a 15+ year teacher who has taught elementary. I would have had no clue who wrote Great Expectations. I am not worried at all that I don't know this.

Not doing much to make elementary teachers look good there, sweetheart.

I have a law degree from a top 10 law school and I'm Phi Beta Kappa for undergrad.... I have never read Great Expectations and did not know the author. I don't see why OP thinks this is such a travesty for a teacher not to know this.

It's the importance of Dickens, not whether the book is enjoyable or whether it is read in it's entirety.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

I need to read it again. We read it in 9th grade English class in my NY state public high school, right after The Scarlet Letter (ok, so I skipped over the Custom House Sketch ... ). It doesn't bother me that an elementary school teacher would not know this -- maybe she read Billy Budd instead of Great Expectations -- but it would be horrifying if an English teacher wasn't familiar with Great Expectations.

And Miss Havisham was completely creepy! Still can't believe //SPOILER ALERT// that she wasn't Pip's benefactor.

We had it in 9th grade English class as well in my school half way across the globe from here. I need to read it again, can't seem to remember the details despite the spoiler! All I remember is Pip (Phillip Pirrip), and how everything was sad, dreary, cold and depressing.

Anonymous wrote:I have three Master's Degrees and I am a 15+ year teacher who has taught elementary. I would have had no clue who wrote Great Expectations. I am not worried at all that I don't know this.

Not doing much to make elementary teachers look good there, sweetheart.

Anonymous wrote:I found all the Dickens I was forced to read was excruciatingly long. That's when I found out his stories were not written as novels. They were written as serials that were published monthly. It's nothing more than Victorian soap opera. The stories aren't bad, they just go on for twice the length as necessary to promote magazine sales.

In my experience a lot of "great literature" is literature that survived because it was popular in its day and wasn't necessarily written with literary merit in mind. A lot of it was the Harry Potter and Twilight of its day.

Although a priceless piece of history, Beowulf written today would probably be considered some B-grade pulp monster tale, a few steps below the two popular (and widely scorned) series mentioned above. I'm not arguing that they are literary masterpieces, but it wouldn't surprise terribly if in a few centuries schoolchildren were asked to read them and write about the themes the author was trying to convey.

I found all the Dickens I was forced to read was excruciatingly long. That's when I found out his stories were not written as novels. They were written as serials that were published monthly. It's nothing more than Victorian soap opera. The stories aren't bad, they just go on for twice the length as necessary to promote magazine sales.

Great Expectations was required reading (9th grade?) where I grew up. I remember it as being excruciatingly dull. I certainly don't consider it as one of Dicken's best.

I really like the idea of a common core of knowledge. I definitely think everybody should be familiar with Dickens. That being said, I don't think that unfamiliarity with this particular story is any great loss. It's hardly the pinnacle of English literature.

A high school English teacher who didn't know the author of Great Expectations would surprise me, but I wouldn't necessarily expect them to know the author of The Very Hungry Caterpillar or Goodnight Moon. Similarly, I suspect the teacher is an expert in her field. Moreover, I imagine that she is not wholly ignorant of Dickens and could identify him as the author of some of his better known works.

I agree that Americans can be shockingly ignorant in many respects. (Personally, I know my knowledge of geography is abysmal). That being said, I don't feel this shortfall falls anywhere near that category. I suspect there are some areas of "common knowledge" that the teacher might be stronger in than OP.

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

NP here. Never read this book and have a Masters Degree. I think I'll read it after this amazing description. It sounds like I'd love it! Thanks!

^^^LOL at description of Carey's singing!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

It is SUCH a good book! And it allowed me, as a high schooler, to better understand some angsty Alanis Morrisette lyrics.

Little things like this are why I personally am a fan of the Common Core. I do believe that there are things we should all know and cultural references we should all get, and I also lose a little respect for people when they don't know things I think are important parts of our culture. (And they don't always have to be weighty and high-minded. Here I am thinking of the [American] teacher I know who professed this holiday season to never having heard Mariah Carey's classic "All I Want for Christmas is You" before AND, when I played it for her, complained that it was slow and depressing and asked me to put something else on. COME ON, Teach!)

Well. I would have asked you to put something else on if you'd subjected me to Mariah Carey. I despise her, and while I can't name any of her songs (except for that inane Christmas song), I do remember the revulsion I felt in the 90s every time I heard her yip and screech, jackal-like, (wtf WAS that?) her way through her "songs" on the radio. I don't think she's "an important part of our culture", and if someone from another culture asked me to explain her, I would feel deep shame and embarrassment. I think that stupid "All I Want For Christmas Song" is inane.

So, you can judge me for not being able to name any of her songs, except for "All I Want For Christmas", which I hate.

Oh, and I'm the PP you quoted above; I gave the recap of Great Expectations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

It is SUCH a good book! And it allowed me, as a high schooler, to better understand some angsty Alanis Morrisette lyrics.

Little things like this are why I personally am a fan of the Common Core. I do believe that there are things we should all know and cultural references we should all get, and I also lose a little respect for people when they don't know things I think are important parts of our culture. (And they don't always have to be weighty and high-minded. Here I am thinking of the [American] teacher I know who professed this holiday season to never having heard Mariah Carey's classic "All I Want for Christmas is You" before AND, when I played it for her, complained that it was slow and depressing and asked me to put something else on. COME ON, Teach!)

I don't think that Common Core is going to solve your Mariah Carey problem. I'm also completely unsure why you think a teacher has to have the same taste in music as you.

Common Core only has a few required texts. There are suggested reading lists at every grade, but they're suggested, and there are a few standards that make suggestions (e.g. the Letter from the Birmingham Jail is suggested in 9/10 informational text) but the only required texts are listed in these 2 standards from 11/12.

Analyze seventeenth-, eighteenth-, and nineteenth-century foundational U.S. documents of historical and literary significance (including The Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address) for their themes, purposes, and rhetorical features.

Analyze multiple interpretations of a story, drama, or poem (e.g., recorded or live production of a play or recorded novel or poetry), evaluating how each version interprets the source text. (Include at least one play by Shakespeare and one play by an American dramatist.)

Anonymous wrote:Miss Havisham, people. Miss Havesham. She makes Great Expectations WORTH reading: best villain ever. She lives in a creepy old mansion alone, wearing the tattered remains of the wedding dress she first put on years and years ago when her fiance stood her up on her wedding day. She had the clocks in her mansion stopped at that time, and has the wedding spread table still set out, moldering under cobwebs. And she's OBSESSED with getting her revenge on men. So obsessed that she takes a little orphan girl and raises her to be a heartbreaking temptress, keeping her isolated in the old moldy mansion so no outside influences will halt the corruption. AND THEN, Miss Havisham invites Pip, the main character, into the creepy old mansion to meet young Estella (the little girl Miss H has warped in the hopes of carrying out her revenge).

Read it, really. So, so good.

It is SUCH a good book! And it allowed me, as a high schooler, to better understand some angsty Alanis Morrisette lyrics.

Little things like this are why I personally am a fan of the Common Core. I do believe that there are things we should all know and cultural references we should all get, and I also lose a little respect for people when they don't know things I think are important parts of our culture. (And they don't always have to be weighty and high-minded. Here I am thinking of the [American] teacher I know who professed this holiday season to never having heard Mariah Carey's classic "All I Want for Christmas is You" before AND, when I played it for her, complained that it was slow and depressing and asked me to put something else on. COME ON, Teach!)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people reading this thread have read Great Expectations? I'm in my 40s and have a Ph.D. in a humanities field and I read it for the first time a couple years ago. It's not one of the more commonly assigned books by Dickens, and I don't know many people who read Dickens for fun. If OP could give more examples of this woman's cluelessness, I might be with her, but I don't think lack of knowledge of Charles Dickens makes someone a dumbass.

I agree. We could come up with a long list of "classics" and find a book in that list that any one person hasn't read.

During a trivia game knowing who wrote Great Expectations will get you just as far as knowing who won the 2012 World Series.

I have read several Dickens novels, but never made it through Great Expectations. My dad tried to read it out loud to me as a child (I had really enjoyed him reading A Christmas Carol to me out loud and he thought he'd try another Dickens). I kept getting scared in that early scene of Pip in the graveyard and he had to stop and read something else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Played Trivial Pursuit with some friends the other night and one (a 4th grade teacher) had no idea who wrote Great Expectations. I consider this essential knowledge, not trivia, especially for an educator. This person has a masters degree (in elementary education, I assume) and has 20 years of experience. Is there really any excuse for this?

Dickens "wrote.". What is your excuse for illiteracy? Don't even try to blame spell check?

This has already been covered. Welcome to the party.

Anonymous wrote:Played Trivial Pursuit with some friends the other night and one (a 4th grade teacher) had no idea who wrote Great Expectations. I consider this essential knowledge, not trivia, especially for an educator. This person has a masters degree (in elementary education, I assume) and has 20 years of experience. Is there really any excuse for this?

Dickens "wrote.". What is your excuse for illiteracy? Don't even try to blame spell check?