Anonymous
12/07/2016 15:04
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Not following your point re West Potomac. It was created by the merger of Fort Hunt, which was like Langley today in terms of its SES, and Groveton, which was like Lee today. Fast forward and you have a school with a 45% and growing FARMS percentage, more like old Groveton than old Fort Hunt. It's crowded because FCPS sends every kid from eight different elementary schools there, and some of the students from a ninth school there (compare that to South County, which only gets kids from about 4.3 schools). Lots of people avoid the WestPo area and/or its public schools now, despite its convenient location, and head further west to schools with lower FARMS/ESOL rates like West Springfield.
Actually, the point is super clear when you look at the data. In terms of performance for white kids on the SAT for example, West Potomac meets or exceeds many of the "good schools." A lot of families actually choose to send their children there. Look at Waynewood, Stratford landing, Belle View, etc. Each of these schools has a sizable enough cohort to balance the higher needs, higher poverty students. That's in essence what would happen if you moved West Springfield feeders to Lee.
That's a different point, and I don't know that the conclusion you draw based on the current demographics and dynamics at West Potomac is necessarily the right one, particularly insofar as West Springfield and Lee are concerned.
Anonymous
12/07/2016 13:54
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Not following your point re West Potomac. It was created by the merger of Fort Hunt, which was like Langley today in terms of its SES, and Groveton, which was like Lee today. Fast forward and you have a school with a 45% and growing FARMS percentage, more like old Groveton than old Fort Hunt. It's crowded because FCPS sends every kid from eight different elementary schools there, and some of the students from a ninth school there (compare that to South County, which only gets kids from about 4.3 schools). Lots of people avoid the WestPo area and/or its public schools now, despite its convenient location, and head further west to schools with lower FARMS/ESOL rates like West Springfield.
Actually, the point is super clear when you look at the data. In terms of performance for white kids on the SAT for example, West Potomac meets or exceeds many of the "good schools." A lot of families actually choose to send their children there. Look at Waynewood, Stratford landing, Belle View, etc. Each of these schools has a sizable enough cohort to balance the higher needs, higher poverty students. That's in essence what would happen if you moved West Springfield feeders to Lee.
Anonymous
12/07/2016 11:05
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Not following your point re West Potomac. It was created by the merger of Fort Hunt, which was like Langley today in terms of its SES, and Groveton, which was like Lee today. Fast forward and you have a school with a 45% and growing FARMS percentage, more like old Groveton than old Fort Hunt. It's crowded because FCPS sends every kid from eight different elementary schools there, and some of the students from a ninth school there (compare that to South County, which only gets kids from about 4.3 schools). Lots of people avoid the WestPo area and/or its public schools now, despite its convenient location, and head further west to schools with lower FARMS/ESOL rates like West Springfield.
Anonymous
12/07/2016 09:59
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:True, Lee HS is not in Karen Corbett Sanders' district, but one elementary school in her Mount Vernon district (Saratoga) is part of the Lee HS pyramid. It's one glaring example of why district boundaries should be redrawn. Saratoga parents don't get to vote for the Lee District rep. even though their kids go to Lee HS. Saratoga lacks fair representation on the school board.
I imagine a few other elementary schools in the West Springfield pyramid will likely be joining Saratoga at Lee in the future. I think that may lead to the change in boundaries in terms of representatives.
There's no reason why Lee should have all Title I, high FARMS feeder schools (except for the Springfield Estates AAP center) and West Springfield have none. Major inequity there.
Saratoga, which is on the very far edge of the Lee HS boundary is propping up Lee HS. The school board doesn't want to let Saratoga into another district that makes better geographic sense for them because it would make Lee HS even worse.
Springfield Estates is Title I too (the part that is not the AAP center is primarily ESOL and FARMS and the fcps administration recently designated it as Title I so that the kids who are in the zone and not AAP are not unintentionally denied Title I funds just b/c the AAP center is housed in that school.) Most of the AAP kids are coming from other pyramids (Hayfield and Edison). Those base kids (at SEES) end up being the best of the class at Lee. I believe every single one who graduated at Lee last year (having come from SEES) was going on to college. But, I agree with your premise that a HS should not have the deck stacked against it by having all (or mostly) FARMS/ESOL feeder schools.
They can make adjustments, but FCPS isn't a self-contained system. If they just start busing people out of their communities to balance HS demographics, people will move to Arlington or Loudoun or send their kids to privates, and the net effect won't be what you're hoping for (unless your goal is 24 Lee HS and one TJ).
Yeah, that's not going to happen. In some ways, Fairfax is too big to fail. There isn't enough capacity in private schools to absorb a mass exodus like Alexandria. And in terms of commuting, you are not going to find a ton of people willing to live way out to Loudoun or Prince William as a means to avoid a boundary change.
What would likely happen is that certain schools would improve and others would be fine. West Springfield parents, many of whom are Pentagon and Fort Belvoir workers are not going to take on hour plus commutes to avoid sending their kids to Lee, particularly if the FARMS rate of that schools drops down to 40 percent or so. Look at West Potomac, it's a perfect example of the line people have on this sort of thing. 40 percent FARMS, way, way over capacity because it doesn't both parents.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 16:55
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
I'm more concerned about elementary schools being diverse. High Schools just because of size are usually more diverse.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 16:28
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:True, Lee HS is not in Karen Corbett Sanders' district, but one elementary school in her Mount Vernon district (Saratoga) is part of the Lee HS pyramid. It's one glaring example of why district boundaries should be redrawn. Saratoga parents don't get to vote for the Lee District rep. even though their kids go to Lee HS. Saratoga lacks fair representation on the school board.
I imagine a few other elementary schools in the West Springfield pyramid will likely be joining Saratoga at Lee in the future. I think that may lead to the change in boundaries in terms of representatives.
There's no reason why Lee should have all Title I, high FARMS feeder schools (except for the Springfield Estates AAP center) and West Springfield have none. Major inequity there.
Saratoga, which is on the very far edge of the Lee HS boundary is propping up Lee HS. The school board doesn't want to let Saratoga into another district that makes better geographic sense for them because it would make Lee HS even worse.
Springfield Estates is Title I too (the part that is not the AAP center is primarily ESOL and FARMS and the fcps administration recently designated it as Title I so that the kids who are in the zone and not AAP are not unintentionally denied Title I funds just b/c the AAP center is housed in that school.) Most of the AAP kids are coming from other pyramids (Hayfield and Edison). Those base kids (at SEES) end up being the best of the class at Lee. I believe every single one who graduated at Lee last year (having come from SEES) was going on to college. But, I agree with your premise that a HS should not have the deck stacked against it by having all (or mostly) FARMS/ESOL feeder schools.
They can make adjustments, but FCPS isn't a self-contained system. If they just start busing people out of their communities to balance HS demographics, people will move to Arlington or Loudoun or send their kids to privates, and the net effect won't be what you're hoping for (unless your goal is 24 Lee HS and one TJ).
Anonymous
12/06/2016 15:38
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:True, Lee HS is not in Karen Corbett Sanders' district, but one elementary school in her Mount Vernon district (Saratoga) is part of the Lee HS pyramid. It's one glaring example of why district boundaries should be redrawn. Saratoga parents don't get to vote for the Lee District rep. even though their kids go to Lee HS. Saratoga lacks fair representation on the school board.
I imagine a few other elementary schools in the West Springfield pyramid will likely be joining Saratoga at Lee in the future. I think that may lead to the change in boundaries in terms of representatives.
There's no reason why Lee should have all Title I, high FARMS feeder schools (except for the Springfield Estates AAP center) and West Springfield have none. Major inequity there.
Saratoga, which is on the very far edge of the Lee HS boundary is propping up Lee HS. The school board doesn't want to let Saratoga into another district that makes better geographic sense for them because it would make Lee HS even worse.
Springfield Estates is Title I too (the part that is not the AAP center is primarily ESOL and FARMS and the fcps administration recently designated it as Title I so that the kids who are in the zone and not AAP are not unintentionally denied Title I funds just b/c the AAP center is housed in that school.) Most of the AAP kids are coming from other pyramids (Hayfield and Edison). Those base kids (at SEES) end up being the best of the class at Lee. I believe every single one who graduated at Lee last year (having come from SEES) was going on to college. But, I agree with your premise that a HS should not have the deck stacked against it by having all (or mostly) FARMS/ESOL feeder schools.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 13:52
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Video from the (2+ hour) work session is now posted.
Laughing at 12:15. Was it not immediately obvious this chart was wrong?
How is the chart wrong?
It purports to provide a migration summary by pyramid, highest percentage change to lowest, but the schools are incorrectly listed in alphabetical order. It can't be correct.
True. But the drill downs to elementary, middle, and high school are on pages 14, 20, and 24 of the report.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 13:27
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Video from the (2+ hour) work session is now posted.
Laughing at 12:15. Was it not immediately obvious this chart was wrong?
How is the chart wrong?
It purports to provide a migration summary by pyramid, highest percentage change to lowest, but the schools are incorrectly listed in alphabetical order. It can't be correct.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 13:09
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Video from the (2+ hour) work session is now posted.
Laughing at 12:15. Was it not immediately obvious this chart was wrong?
How is the chart wrong?
Anonymous
12/06/2016 12:39
Subject: Re:Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Video from the (2+ hour) work session is now posted.
Laughing at 12:15. Was it not immediately obvious this chart was wrong?
Anonymous
12/06/2016 12:31
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:True, Lee HS is not in Karen Corbett Sanders' district, but one elementary school in her Mount Vernon district (Saratoga) is part of the Lee HS pyramid. It's one glaring example of why district boundaries should be redrawn. Saratoga parents don't get to vote for the Lee District rep. even though their kids go to Lee HS. Saratoga lacks fair representation on the school board.
I imagine a few other elementary schools in the West Springfield pyramid will likely be joining Saratoga at Lee in the future. I think that may lead to the change in boundaries in terms of representatives.
There's no reason why Lee should have all Title I, high FARMS feeder schools (except for the Springfield Estates AAP center) and West Springfield have none. Major inequity there.
Saratoga, which is on the very far edge of the Lee HS boundary is propping up Lee HS. The school board doesn't want to let Saratoga into another district that makes better geographic sense for them because it would make Lee HS even worse.
Why not move North Springfield from Annandale to Lee and move Mason Crest and part of Wakefield Forest to Annandale?
Because Annandale is not overcrowded and can handle taking in more students. The biggest issue is Stuart, Oakton, Marshall, and Woodson.
For example, you can fix the Woodson and Oakton issue fairly easily. But to open capacity for those schools, they essentially need to open up capacity at Lake Braddock (Woodson) and Robinson (Oaktown). The only way they can do that is to push the boundaries, so some of Robinson feeds into South County, some of Lake Braddock feeds into West Springfield, and some of West Springfield feeds into Lee. You move more of South County to Hayfield to adjust for the increase in Robinson students.
Similarly, for Marshall, it's pretty easy. You move some of Tysons and Shrevewood to Mclean and Langley. For Stuart, you move the northern elementary feeder that sits next to Falls Church city to McLean, you move some of the lower feeders like Parklawn and Belvedere to Annandale.
On the western side of the county, a similarly shifting would need to take place for Centerville.
I think the amount of fit having about the shifts will be the most interesting. A lot of people who thought they were buying in certain places are going to be surprised.
I can't see most of these changes happening. I don't think you have a handle on the current boundaries or enrollment projections, much less the appetite of the School Board to change boundaries until a school is seriously under capacity (example: South Lakes in 2008) or overcrowded (example: Annandale in 2011).
More modest changes are probably more likely, such as moving the Westbriar island zoned for Marshall to Langley, and moving a school like Mason Crest to Annandale.
Probably, but when people complaint about how wasteful the schools are and how inefficient things are being run, they are green lighting this ineffiency.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 12:03
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is the school board spending $ to renovate and expand capacity at West Springfield when Lee (which was recently renovated) is majorly under capacity?
That is poor stewardship of taxpayer dollars. Students from West Springfield should have been moved to Lee instead.
Similar question about why Langley is undergoing renovation, when Falls Church HS is legitimately falling apart and growing? I get that plans were made a while back to renovate Langley, but there has got to be a better way to adjust when needed.
I'm glad they are adding capacity to schools when they are renovated. Otherwise we'd be in the same pickle as APS, which actually replaced several existing schools with new schools with less capacity, right before there was an enrollment spike. Having more capacity at Langley, for example, will allow FCPS to handle future growth in Tysons (currently zoned for Marshall and McLean).
Falls Church is on the renovation queue and presumably may be expanded as well when it is renovated. In hindsight, it would be better if the expansion at Marshall had been larger, McLean got an addition, and Falls Church was scheduled for renovation sooner, but at least there will be seats.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 11:36
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:True, Lee HS is not in Karen Corbett Sanders' district, but one elementary school in her Mount Vernon district (Saratoga) is part of the Lee HS pyramid. It's one glaring example of why district boundaries should be redrawn. Saratoga parents don't get to vote for the Lee District rep. even though their kids go to Lee HS. Saratoga lacks fair representation on the school board.
I imagine a few other elementary schools in the West Springfield pyramid will likely be joining Saratoga at Lee in the future. I think that may lead to the change in boundaries in terms of representatives.
There's no reason why Lee should have all Title I, high FARMS feeder schools (except for the Springfield Estates AAP center) and West Springfield have none. Major inequity there.
Saratoga, which is on the very far edge of the Lee HS boundary is propping up Lee HS. The school board doesn't want to let Saratoga into another district that makes better geographic sense for them because it would make Lee HS even worse.
Why not move North Springfield from Annandale to Lee and move Mason Crest and part of Wakefield Forest to Annandale?
Because Annandale is not overcrowded and can handle taking in more students. The biggest issue is Stuart, Oakton, Marshall, and Woodson.
For example, you can fix the Woodson and Oakton issue fairly easily. But to open capacity for those schools, they essentially need to open up capacity at Lake Braddock (Woodson) and Robinson (Oaktown). The only way they can do that is to push the boundaries, so some of Robinson feeds into South County, some of Lake Braddock feeds into West Springfield, and some of West Springfield feeds into Lee. You move more of South County to Hayfield to adjust for the increase in Robinson students.
Similarly, for Marshall, it's pretty easy. You move some of Tysons and Shrevewood to Mclean and Langley. For Stuart, you move the northern elementary feeder that sits next to Falls Church city to McLean, you move some of the lower feeders like Parklawn and Belvedere to Annandale.
On the western side of the county, a similarly shifting would need to take place for Centerville.
I think the amount of fit having about the shifts will be the most interesting. A lot of people who thought they were buying in certain places are going to be surprised.
I can't see most of these changes happening. I don't think you have a handle on the current boundaries or enrollment projections, much less the appetite of the School Board to change boundaries until a school is seriously under capacity (example: South Lakes in 2008) or overcrowded (example: Annandale in 2011).
More modest changes are probably more likely, such as moving the Westbriar island zoned for Marshall to Langley, and moving a school like Mason Crest to Annandale.
Anonymous
12/06/2016 11:25
Subject: Enrollment/Facilities Planning in FCPS
Anonymous wrote:Why is the school board spending $ to renovate and expand capacity at West Springfield when Lee (which was recently renovated) is majorly under capacity?
That is poor stewardship of taxpayer dollars. Students from West Springfield should have been moved to Lee instead.
Similar question about why Langley is undergoing renovation, when Falls Church HS is legitimately falling apart and growing? I get that plans were made a while back to renovate Langley, but there has got to be a better way to adjust when needed.