Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I was a D1 recruit. I was training constantly. Sometimes I'd get home at 11 PM and start at 5 AM the next day. On those days, I'd rather just do 20% of the problems and copy the rest than try to do the whole assignment. Some people don't really care about school and would rather spend their time working out, and that's every bit as good.

FTFY

NP. If I'm correct that "D1 recruit" means "went to university on a full scholarship", then it very well may be. Scholarships to college were the ultimate goal of my children's high school experience (merit $ in their case, none being talented athletes), although I would have been upset if they had systematically compromised their ethics in order to achieve that end. It's all about goals, priorities, and risk assessment, all of which will be very individualized. But anyone who chooses to do something unethical or against known rules in support of reaching a goal that they've decided is worth it better be prepared for any negative consequences that result.

Anonymous wrote:So if the teacher somehow figures out that your child is copying homework and flunks her/him, is that injustice or just a learning opportunity?

If your point is "I know my kid is taking a risk, but I think it's worth it because there's no value to this homework; it's just a hoop to jump through," I think you are being pretty dismissive of the teacher's expertise. But if you're OK with a teacher being similarly dismissive of your kid's need for a good transcript, then at least there's a symmetry there.

I'm a poster who said I did it as a student, know it's wrong now and don't like it but know that my kids did it, and consider it up to the kid to choose and the school to deal with. I would be furious if my kid flunks a course for this reason, but I would be upset with my child and not with the instructor. If policies are known in advance, I don't think anyone can balk at their enforcement. My kids do need good transcripts, but it's not the teacher's job to grant them that, it's their job to do what's needed to earn the good transcript that they need for their future success. How they choose to do that is on them, but if they choose to cut corners or do something that's unethical or contrary to class policy, and then get caught doing so, they need to own all results of that choice, both positive and negative.

Anonymous wrote:
I was a D1 recruit. I was training constantly. Sometimes I'd get home at 11 PM and start at 5 AM the next day. On those days, I'd rather just do 20% of the problems and copy the rest than try to do the whole assignment. Some people don't really care about school and would rather spend their time working out, and that's every bit as good.

FTFY

For most of sixth grade, my oldest DD and her friends who were in mostly the same classes had a 'homework circle' going where one kid was responsible for one class's assignment each night and in the morning before school they would get together to trade/copy. DD eventually stopped being involved with that, partially because we had some serious discussions about ethics and what the consequences could be and partially because the logistics got too irritating to manage. She got straight A's that year so she must have known her stuff for tests and other assessments, but still the homework thing wasn't really a good idea.

For those concerned about future success and college habits, at least in DD's case the brief cheating stint doesn't seem to have hurt her... I'm unaware of it carrying over to high school and she recently graduated from college successfully with a 3.88 GPA.

Not a good thing for the kids to be doing, and not something to encourage, but I don't think it's unusual, catastrophic, or indicative of a parenting failure. Most people experiment with bad or unwise choices at some point, and in the grand scheme of things this one is mostly harmless.

Anonymous wrote:oh wow, a twofer. Cheating your employer and helping daughter cheat at school. I do think that teachers rule was unfair and should be taken up the chain. I also think your solution was wrong.

How is it cheating the employer if she stays late to do it or does it on her lunch hour?

If the teacher isn't going to provide a reasonable alternative, the family does what it can. I think that's fine.

That's a lot different from copying your friend's homework.

mjsmith wrote:So DD is coping homework and complaining about all the homework. but yet the girl in the other class IS getting the homework done. If there is too much homework, then how is the other child getting it done?

The fact that she is getting good grades, tells me one of two things... that either she knows the shit. just doesn't like doing the busy work, or is cheating on tests...

tell her she's gotta stop copying the home work. new house rule... and if you are concerned about her cheating on the tests give the teacher a call and let him know about the home work copying you found.

Oh and lets all be hones with each other....at some point in time in our lives we all have cheated on something., home work, taxes, ect...

I was a D1 recruit. I was training constantly. Sometimes I'd get home at 11 PM and start at 5 AM the next day. On those days, I'd rather just do 20% of the problems and copy the rest than try to do the whole assignment. Some people don't have those kinds of commitments and have more time for assignments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here -- I agree that if the homework is not worth the time, the students need to address the issue with the teacher. If I found my kid cheating, I would tell my kid that they have lost a bit of my trust in them. If they can't be trusted with "little things" like doing his/her own homework, how could I trust him or her with bigger things? Once trust is lost, it is hard to regain (E.g., look at the leading presidential candidates trying to regain people's trust). In OP's case, I'd be concerned that my child can't effectively communicate a problem to an adult authority, here the teacher. It is a skill that needs to be honed over time. There will be plenty in the work world kids will find unnecessary (filling in a timecard), that can spell big trouble for an employer and employee if not handled properly.

This assumes the teacher is level-headed and fair. In 6th grade my DD's math teacher was intimidating (to me, even, and I'm not intimidated easily) and unreasonable. We do not have a computer at home for DD to use and the teacher assigned 45 minutes a day of Kahn Academy online to each student. When I told her I could get DD to the library once during the week and once on weekends and she'd do it ALL those two times she said "No, must be every day." I told her that's not possible, and she said DD should use the computer lab. I asked if she would be staying late at the school to walk DD to the bus stop and wait for the bus in the dark so that DD was safe getting home after staying so late, and she said no. So guess what? I did Kahn Academy at work each day. I made sure DD understood what she was learning, but we worked around her teacher.

oh wow, a twofer. Cheating your employer and helping daughter cheat at school. I do think that teachers rule was unfair and should be taken up the chain. I also think your solution was wrong.

So if the teacher somehow figures out that your child is copying homework and flunks her/him, is that injustice or just a learning opportunity?

If your point is "I know my kid is taking a risk, but I think it's worth it because there's no value to this homework; it's just a hoop to jump through," I think you are being pretty dismissive of the teacher's expertise. But if you're OK with a teacher being similarly dismissive of your kid's need for a good transcript, then at least there's a symmetry there.

So DD is coping homework and complaining about all the homework. but yet the girl in the other class IS getting the homework done. If there is too much homework, then how is the other child getting it done?

The fact that she is getting good grades, tells me one of two things... that either she knows the shit. just doesn't like doing the busy work, or is cheating on tests...

tell her she's gotta stop copying the home work. new house rule... and if you are concerned about her cheating on the tests give the teacher a call and let him know about the home work copying you found.

Oh and lets all be hones with each other....at some point in time in our lives we all have cheated on something., home work, taxes, ect...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plagiarism will get you kicked out of college. Will that be ok with you too?

But college makes sense. Routine homework is not graded. Students are free to do as many problems as they believe are required for mastery. There'd be no need to copy someone's homework just to check a box. Doing this in high school math has little relation to plagiarizing in a college writing class.

Except the fact that high school is creating habits for college.

Precisely. And there's no need to copy math homework in college, so it's moot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Plagiarism will get you kicked out of college. Will that be ok with you too?

But college makes sense. Routine homework is not graded. Students are free to do as many problems as they believe are required for mastery. There'd be no need to copy someone's homework just to check a box. Doing this in high school math has little relation to plagiarizing in a college writing class.

Except the fact that high school is creating habits for college.

Anonymous wrote:Plagiarism will get you kicked out of college. Will that be ok with you too?

But college makes sense. Routine homework is not graded. Students are free to do as many problems as they believe are required for mastery. There'd be no need to copy someone's homework just to check a box. Doing this in high school math has little relation to plagiarizing in a college writing class.

Plagiarism will get you kicked out of college. Will that be ok with you too?

Anonymous wrote:NP here -- I agree that if the homework is not worth the time, the students need to address the issue with the teacher. If I found my kid cheating, I would tell my kid that they have lost a bit of my trust in them. If they can't be trusted with "little things" like doing his/her own homework, how could I trust him or her with bigger things? Once trust is lost, it is hard to regain (E.g., look at the leading presidential candidates trying to regain people's trust). In OP's case, I'd be concerned that my child can't effectively communicate a problem to an adult authority, here the teacher. It is a skill that needs to be honed over time. There will be plenty in the work world kids will find unnecessary (filling in a timecard), that can spell big trouble for an employer and employee if not handled properly.

This assumes the teacher is level-headed and fair. In 6th grade my DD's math teacher was intimidating (to me, even, and I'm not intimidated easily) and unreasonable. We do not have a computer at home for DD to use and the teacher assigned 45 minutes a day of Kahn Academy online to each student. When I told her I could get DD to the library once during the week and once on weekends and she'd do it ALL those two times she said "No, must be every day." I told her that's not possible, and she said DD should use the computer lab. I asked if she would be staying late at the school to walk DD to the bus stop and wait for the bus in the dark so that DD was safe getting home after staying so late, and she said no. So guess what? I did Kahn Academy at work each day. I made sure DD understood what she was learning, but we worked around her teacher.

NP here -- I agree that if the homework is not worth the time, the students need to address the issue with the teacher. If I found my kid cheating, I would tell my kid that they have lost a bit of my trust in them. If they can't be trusted with "little things" like doing his/her own homework, how could I trust him or her with bigger things? Once trust is lost, it is hard to regain (E.g., look at the leading presidential candidates trying to regain people's trust). In OP's case, I'd be concerned that my child can't effectively communicate a problem to an adult authority, here the teacher. It is a skill that needs to be honed over time. There will be plenty in the work world kids will find unnecessary (filling in a timecard), that can spell big trouble for an employer and employee if not handled properly.