Anonymous
10/15/2016 09:47
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The population of illegal immigrants is going down in this country since 2008 and Obama has deported millions of people-- more than any other president in history, combined even.
A wall is just about the stupidest idea for addressing immigation there is. I don't understand why illegal immigration is your single issue-- seems like you want to make immigrants scapegoats for every possible problem-- or why if it is you would vote for Trump.
I can only say, in the gentlest way possible, that you have not read and comprehended my posts.
I don't support building a wall. I have nothing against immigrants and agree they are extremely hard-working. My point is there is a hidden cost to illegal and legal immigration of unskilled labor.
As for Obama's deportation numbers, I am afraid you are misinformed. I'm not sure if this is because you are willfully ignorant or just confused. Luckily, several newspapers, such as the LA Times, have done a great job at explaining this.
Essentially, under the Obama administration, turning people away at the border is now categorized as deportation. However, those living illegally in the U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html
Another good newspaper explanation:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/
I read your posts carefully -- you may support Trump solely because of his stand on immigration. Trump's primary policy on immogration is that he will build a wall (he even has backed off "deportation forces" at times). But you say you don't support building a wall. So maybe you are right I don't understand your position.
As for deportations-- you and others complain that the borders are porous and there are no consequences for crossing it yet you dismiss the millions of people who are caught-- and whose identities are recorded so they can be prosecuted if they try to enter again. And you don't address the fact that the population of illegal immigrants has gone down under Obama.
If you want the country to have a thoughtful debate about the proper role of legal and illegal immigration in helping the country and its people then I can't imagine votinng for Trump. If you want to troll then go ahead.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 09:28
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:The population of illegal immigrants is going down in this country since 2008 and Obama has deported millions of people-- more than any other president in history, combined even.
A wall is just about the stupidest idea for addressing immigation there is. I don't understand why illegal immigration is your single issue-- seems like you want to make immigrants scapegoats for every possible problem-- or why if it is you would vote for Trump.
I can only say, in the gentlest way possible, that you have not read and comprehended my posts.
I don't support building a wall. I have nothing against immigrants and agree they are extremely hard-working. My point is there is a hidden cost to illegal and legal immigration of unskilled labor.
As for Obama's deportation numbers, I am afraid you are misinformed. I'm not sure if this is because you are willfully ignorant or just confused. Luckily, several newspapers, such as the LA Times, have done a great job at explaining this.
Essentially, under the Obama administration, turning people away at the border is now categorized as deportation. However, those living illegally in the U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html
Another good newspaper explanation:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/04/21/lies-damned-lies-and-obamas-deportation-statistics/
Anonymous
10/15/2016 09:13
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:If the voters of California are okay with benefits being extended to individuals who entered the country illegally then that it how a democracy is supposed to work. They can have a ballot initiative to change this situation or elect different representatives to send to Sacramento. BTW, I am accepting at face value that this is true.
I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.
OP here, maybe you haven't read the whole thread, but I am not a Republican. I am a registered Dem and I agree that the GOP has failed miserably on this issue. So have the Dems.
Please don't take my word on CAPI: http://www.cdss.ca.gov/cdssweb/Pg42.htm
More than half of all immigrants (legal) receive welfare, which suggests to me that business are not offering a living wage or benefits. We as a society are the one who end up paying for the benefits (through welfare) that business ought to be paying for.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/
Anonymous
10/15/2016 09:07
Subject: I am still undecided
The population of illegal immigrants is going down in this country since 2008 and Obama has deported millions of people-- more than any other president in history, combined even.
A wall is just about the stupidest idea for addressing immigation there is. I don't understand why illegal immigration is your single issue-- seems like you want to make immigrants scapegoats for every possible problem-- or why if it is you would vote for Trump.
A wall is just about the stupidest idea for addressing immigation there is. I don't understand why illegal immigration is your single issue-- seems like you want to make immigrants scapegoats for every possible problem-- or why if it is you would vote for Trump.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:59
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:If the voters of California are okay with benefits being extended to individuals who entered the country illegally then that it how a democracy is supposed to work. They can have a ballot initiative to change this situation or elect different representatives to send to Sacramento. BTW, I am accepting at face value that this is true.
I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.
Our federal immigration laws were broken. CA voters don't have a say in it due to that
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:56
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm voting like a woman with a healthy dose of skepticism and a deep respect for the Constitution.
Not the Trump voter, then. Trump talks as if the US President had dictatorial powers -- for instance, jailing his political opponents. He disregards First Amendment protections for freedom of the press and religious liberty. He'd probably be happier with Putin's power than with an American president's.
NP. He did not say he would jail his political opponents. He said that he would appoint a special prosecutor to look into the Clintons arsenal of misdeeds (that will take years) and that she would end up in jail. But of course, you and the media run with this in another direction.
I'm with the first PP. Everyday when I read the slanted headlines in the Washington Post, I am more and more convinced that my choice to vote for Trump is the right one. There is something the media is hiding from us and I don't like it.
Get off your high horse, the man has been using the slogan "lock her up" since July.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:54
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:I am a two-issue voter. My issues are the Economy and National Security. That's why I vote Republican. You have to figure out which issues are most important to you and vote on those. I am socially more liberal. However, those issues are not my priority right now. Society already is changing. For example, gay marriage is now legal in 50 states. We need to focus on the economy and defense now.
Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.
Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.
Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.
But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.
No one IRL knows I feel this way.
Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.
Can't recall when the Republi cans actually delivered a good performance on either of these issues. Supply side worked for a year or two under Reagan but was disastrous for Bush. Yet Republicans cling to it. And on defense, the party that brought us the Iraq and Afghanistan wars?
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:48
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am in MD, so it is a moot point. And in some way that makes me feel better, b/c my vote really does not matter.
I was such an Obama supporter and one of the reasons I really liked him was because he was NOT HRC.
It may be hard for some to imagine that I would even consider Trump, but I don't really focus on what an a-hole he is, I just focus on the issues, actually one issue.
I agree with the PP that we have been abandoned by both the Dem and Rep parties.
Why do people keep saying this. The bolder statement is false. Maryland has gone red in statewide elections.
Won"t happen in a presidential election. Republicans occasionally win the governorship when the dems put up truly horrendous candidates. The majority of the stat wide government remains dems.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:37
Subject: I am still undecided
If the voters of California are okay with benefits being extended to individuals who entered the country illegally then that it how a democracy is supposed to work. They can have a ballot initiative to change this situation or elect different representatives to send to Sacramento. BTW, I am accepting at face value that this is true.
I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.
I am not going to respond to an unsupported opinion about the complex interplay between immigration and wages. I would ask however why the GOP is uniformly opposed to a living minimum wage if there's such concern.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 08:28
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.
Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.
Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.
But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.
No one IRL knows I feel this way.
Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.
I really don't comprehend people who say they are undecided. I am about as far left as you can get, and I would vote for Antonin Scalia over a Democrat who was as ignorant and arrogant as Donald Trump. Saying you are with him on any issue is nonsense because he does not have any coherent position on any issue.
He's exactly like the loud drunk, aggressive parent at the youth sports game who doesn't even know the rules of the game but is sure that he could do a better job than the refs and the coaches. At the debate, he scoffed at the military leadership and asked "why do we announce in advance that we are going to attack?" (an an answer to a question about Syria as he was discussing a city in Iraq). Does he honestly think US generals JUST NEVER THOUGHT OF A SURPRISE ATTACK? Like that's some new idea that he discovered? His contempt for our armed forces is mind boggling. Likewise with his announcement early on that he would kill and torture the families of Jihadists. He then had to walk that back because people who actually know stuff informed him that our soldiers won't commit war crimes just because he says so.
On immigration, you do know that:
1. More Mexicans (who are 52% if undocumented immigrants) are leaving the US than entering, right and have been for a couple of years now? So a wall would actually increase the number of undocumented immigrants?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
2. Economist have repeatedly concluded that undocumented immigrants pay more in taxes (sales, payroll, etc.) than they use in services, resulting in a net plus to the US government? The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. Immigrants can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but they cannot get welfare or food stamps.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
Sorry, but if you are a single issue Trump voter on immigration, then you are an idiot.
So, OP. no comment when presented with actual facts?
I think I've answered those concerns, but not directly. I do not support a wall. It's ridiculous. I do not support deportation.
I am sure that immigrants contribute to the society. But a) it sickens me that the US taxpayer subsidizes big business use of cheap labor (we pay for the social services when big business won't offer benefits). Your point about not getting benefits is not true.
For instance, in California, CAPI -- a state-funded program -- pays cash benefits to immigrants who don't qualify for food stamps.
and b) I think illegal and low-skilled immigrants depress the labor market for low-skilled American workers, making it harder for them to join the middle class.
I forgive your for calling me names.
OP here again. I see neither of the posters who bolded the part about immigrants not receiving benefits has responded to this. I'm not sure if this is willful ignorance, or that people learn one "fact" and then are unable intellectually to make room for facts that contradict it.
As for HRC reforming immigration, her main line on this subject is: "We need comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship." That is not the kind of reform I am talking about. We need a politician who will stand up to big business. That is not HRC. It may not be DT either, but it is most certainly not HRC.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 07:48
Subject: I am still undecided
Cements my views - the Obamas were wrong about the officer in Boston, Brown and Martin.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 07:47
Subject: I am still undecided
Cements my vote for Trump. Obamas were wrong about Martin, about the Boston officer, and about Brown.
Anonymous
10/15/2016 07:46
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous
10/14/2016 22:14
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I'm voting like a woman with a healthy dose of skepticism and a deep respect for the Constitution.
Not the Trump voter, then. Trump talks as if the US President had dictatorial powers -- for instance, jailing his political opponents. He disregards First Amendment protections for freedom of the press and religious liberty. He'd probably be happier with Putin's power than with an American president's.
I think a SoS who allows cash into the family foundation from a foreign nation with known terrorist ties is more of an issue. But that's just me.
can't disagree with you here!
Anonymous
10/14/2016 22:13
Subject: I am still undecided
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yes, I am a unicorn.
Lifelong Dem. Big Obama supporter. Never liked HRC and voted against her in 08.
Can't stand the Donald. Hate his style, character, lack of self-control etc.
But I am 100 percent with him on illegal immigration. I have almost become a single issue voter.
No one IRL knows I feel this way.
Not sure I could actually vote for him when it comes down to it, but if I did, I would be voting for this one issue. I feel like voting for HRC is a vote for a borderless America.
I really don't comprehend people who say they are undecided. I am about as far left as you can get, and I would vote for Antonin Scalia over a Democrat who was as ignorant and arrogant as Donald Trump. Saying you are with him on any issue is nonsense because he does not have any coherent position on any issue.
He's exactly like the loud drunk, aggressive parent at the youth sports game who doesn't even know the rules of the game but is sure that he could do a better job than the refs and the coaches. At the debate, he scoffed at the military leadership and asked "why do we announce in advance that we are going to attack?" (an an answer to a question about Syria as he was discussing a city in Iraq). Does he honestly think US generals JUST NEVER THOUGHT OF A SURPRISE ATTACK? Like that's some new idea that he discovered? His contempt for our armed forces is mind boggling. Likewise with his announcement early on that he would kill and torture the families of Jihadists. He then had to walk that back because people who actually know stuff informed him that our soldiers won't commit war crimes just because he says so.
On immigration, you do know that:
1. More Mexicans (who are 52% if undocumented immigrants) are leaving the US than entering, right and have been for a couple of years now? So a wall would actually increase the number of undocumented immigrants?
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/
2. Economist have repeatedly concluded that undocumented immigrants pay more in taxes (sales, payroll, etc.) than they use in services, resulting in a net plus to the US government? The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. Immigrants can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but they cannot get welfare or food stamps.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/news/economy/immigration-myths/
Sorry, but if you are a single issue Trump voter on immigration, then you are an idiot.
Actually, the New York Times, quoting the National Academy of Science http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/opinion/campaign-stops/what-does-immigration-actually-cost-us.html says that first generation immigrants cost more than then give.
[i]For the 2011-2013 period, the net cost to state and local budgets of first generation adults is, on average, about $1,600 each. [\i]
They are also disruptive to the communities they live in.