Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 23:35     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant. My kids are doing very well in school. Infact people of my culture are blamed for actually setting the achievement bar too high, and creating a gap. This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.





I think they mean illegal hispanic immigrants. Asians and even Africans from Africa do well overall.


What the holy hell is this supposed to mean? "Even" Africans from Africa? Am I meant to be surprised that a demographic with the money, education, and motivation to make their way here from Nigeria or Zimbabwe or DRC is successful in the United States. You know nothing about African immigrants if you feel the need to qualify that statement with "even."


Firstly, congrats to the Asian dude harping about his kids' avievement bar.
Secondly, correct, low skilled, uneducated illegal immigrants are straining our sanctuary state/county (we are 2nd to LA in incoming illegals for years) and budget.
Thirdly, Africans and Caribbean immigrants work study and test better than our general black and Hispanic population.

But don't fear, MCPS will dumb every down in no time flat.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 23:28     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am an immigrant. My kids are doing very well in school. Infact people of my culture are blamed for actually setting the achievement bar too high, and creating a gap. This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.





I think they mean illegal hispanic immigrants. Asians and even Africans from Africa do well overall.


LOL... Africans from Africa.. you forgot Asians from Asia. You slay me.


Agree. AA and Hispanics are the central focus in this county. everyone else can fend for themselves and keep paying their inflating taxes please.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 23:25     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:First of all, there is nothing wrong with saying my best friends are black.

I agree that MoCo as a whole focuses too much on issues pertaining to the immigration community. Just look at your local county libraries. ESL classes, computer training classes and I'm like #250 on hold for a new fiction book. The schools here are not focus on improving academic achievement..

FWIW, I'm an immigrant myself..


WTF? What does being #250 for a library book have to do with immigrants? And I don't know if you realize this but the achievement gap exists for the black American-born student group as well. FWIW, I'm an immigrant, too, educated in the US, and we go to the library often, too. Sorry, we are adding to your long wait. This was one of the oddest posts.


It's yet another example of how your tax dollars are redirected to bringing up the bottom instead of providing basic services to all (enough books). You can forget about the county challenging any of the other populaces here adequately.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 23:21     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immigrants and their children do very well in school.


Yes I'm an immigrant, a very high achieving one and my kids are too. RACIST (to the original poster).


As an educated, legal immigrant, I'd love to hear your thoughts on illegal immigration, the average skill land education level of an illegal immigrant here, and its effects on MoCo and MCPS.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 20:54     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Private schools allow entitled families to protect their children from the realities of life and ensure inflated grades and homogeneous friends. That's it. There is a reason why so many private school students get 'great grades' but "can't seem to take those darn standardized tests" very well. It's because the grades are a gift paid for by tuition and the kids aren't that smart - they are just white, entitled, and have hovering parents to ensure short term success.

When your child goes to college, they are better served by a public school education where they need to figure out what to study and no one is giving them a gift. 28 students is fine. This is ridiculous.

Stop bad mouthing different races and immigrants. They have accomplished more than you have and had to do it with racists trying to undermine them the entire way. And these posts just prove that.

The hypocrisy on this post is amazing. Entitled (white) SAHMs who accomplish nothing other than coddling their children and complaining about how it's the school systems fault for their kids' poor performance. Unbelievable.

Oh - and please don't think all white people are this racist and ignorant. I swear this forum has gotten worse in the last year with the racists feeling more comfortable saying ignorant things and (ironically) blaming the 'system' for their child't mediocre performance.


Any citations to back this up or is it just opinion?






Well, the research is there. It seems ‘success’ is determined by parents and not by public v. private school. There is a confounding effect with private schools. Incrementally, private schools aren’t worth it across ALL public schools – even the mediocre ones. Let alone strong public schools like MoCo or Fairfax. While folks complain here about MoCo, you need to go to Alabama or Mississippi or South Dakota to see bad public schools. And the studies include the bad public schools in their research. So one could easily say that MoCo or Fairfax or Howard would be better than average (that’s not a stretch). The key is the incremental benefit above and beyond what parents give their kids by being aware, concerned, active, etc. Everyone on this discussion board is, by definition, aware, concerned, active, etc. So parental disposition, when taken into account, dictates achievement.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2014/05/14/31publicprivate.h33.html
http://theweek.com/articles/464411/private-school-worth

You can also just ask college professors at major universities. Those little gifts of “A”s that are not deserved set up entitled children who become entitled and delusional college students. We can see what leads to success and it’s not the private school student.

There are probably two things going on: (1) parents want to do more for their child so they spend money on them with a private school thinking more money means better. (2) Then they have to justify their decision otherwise they look pretty stupid for paying all that money for a worse education. That happens in the catholic school near me where kids get As and then are asked to repeat a grade when they transfer to a public school. That is not an exaggeration.

You have to ask yourself how kids get straight As or valedictorian in their private school class and don’t get 800s on their SATs. There are kids with perfect SATs in public schools who have an unweighted 3.5. There are no gifts in a MoCo A. Or Fairfax A. There are easy As in private school.

I don’t expect private school families to admit this – although surprisingly some will admit it wasn’t worth it in hindsight.



Do you have any first-hand experience with MoCo schools vs. private? I do. We spent a total of ten years in MCPS with two kids before giving up and going private. There is FAR more grade inflation in MCPS than at private school, and the work is far more rigorous - lots of writing, creative thinking, project-based work, and NO MULTIPLE CHOICE WORKSHEETS! Read the article in Bethesda Magazine - very illuminating. Our county officials believe they have to choose between helping the immigrant children who will may not graduate, and the offspring of college-educated affluent people. Sadly, that's not the real choice. They need to do both. Our "good" schools are far behind those of other developed nations. We need to challenge all our kids to excel.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 20:51     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
What she's saying is that resources are going to ESL classes instead of getting more books.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 20:51     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:First of all, there is nothing wrong with saying my best friends are black.

I agree that MoCo as a whole focuses too much on issues pertaining to the immigration community. Just look at your local county libraries. ESL classes, computer training classes and I'm like #250 on hold for a new fiction book. The schools here are not focus on improving academic achievement..

FWIW, I'm an immigrant myself..


Its a cliche "I'm not a racist - some of my best friends are black" - unfortunately, having friends of a different race does not mean that you do not behave in a racist manner or spout racist crap!
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 20:17     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:First of all, there is nothing wrong with saying my best friends are black.

I agree that MoCo as a whole focuses too much on issues pertaining to the immigration community. Just look at your local county libraries. ESL classes, computer training classes and I'm like #250 on hold for a new fiction book. The schools here are not focus on improving academic achievement..

FWIW, I'm an immigrant myself..


WTF? What does being #250 for a library book have to do with immigrants? And I don't know if you realize this but the achievement gap exists for the black American-born student group as well. FWIW, I'm an immigrant, too, educated in the US, and we go to the library often, too. Sorry, we are adding to your long wait. This was one of the oddest posts.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 20:11     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
First of all, there is nothing wrong with saying my best friends are black.

I agree that MoCo as a whole focuses too much on issues pertaining to the immigration community. Just look at your local county libraries. ESL classes, computer training classes and I'm like #250 on hold for a new fiction book. The schools here are not focus on improving academic achievement..

FWIW, I'm an immigrant myself..
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 16:35     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid go to FCPS in VA, and I read the MD Schools forum occasionally. I see posts talking about how great the teachers are, how interesting the curriculum is, how much their children are learning. They are learning to be excellent writers, to think deeply about math, etc.

Then there are the posts about how bad MCPS is, how they're dumbing down the curriculum. The contrast is striking.

I live in moco. Sometimes I read the VA school forum. I see the same pattern there, too. I think it goes to show that there is no perfect solution, and no system will make everyone happy.


I agree - I see the same complaints from Virginia posters
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 16:20     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:


Did you even read the first link, or was this a quick "Google and skim"? The principal study cited relates to publicly funded "private" charter schools, which is obviously not what we're talking about here.

FWIW, the valedictorian at my private high school graduated with a B+/A- average. Not one student in a class of 80 had an "A" average. Roughly 1/4 of my graduating class attended Ivy League or equivalents. My GPA jumped a full grade my freshman year of college, with much less effort on my part. Your portrayal of privates certainly does not reflect my experience.

All that said, I have no doubt that many privates are grade inflation factories and that many publics perform admirably. However, the core issue here is whether MCPS will continue to perform admirably. Unfortunately, I have serious doubts, given the expanding population and limited resources.




There are two studies linked. The first is helpful in that they include all the critiques of these types of studies and they study the same groups of kids going to two different types of schools. The second is helpful in that it specifically controls for parents which is (I guess) important according to the study.

We will agree to disagree. I would say your anecdotal experience from years ago doesn't have much to say about public v. private schools around here now. Also, these studies suggest that your parents and your friends' parents impacted your later success rather than the incremental benefit of private school over public. This is what they mean by controlling for parental involvement/success and the 'incremental' benefit of private all else being equal.

Grade inflation is an ongoing conversation at universities -- specifically how much worse it has gotten in the last 10 years and how entitled students are when they arrive. So your experience (N=1) could remain valid and still not speak to the current conditions. It also still fits within the general findings that parents dictate student success rather than private over public schools.

I'm fine with the 'expanding population'. But you are right in that a private school keeps out the 'expanding population' you refer to with such disdain.



I'll agree to disagree (and certainly concede that my post was based on anecdotal personal experience).

However, I think it's worth clarifying my concern about expanding population: I do not disdain the "expanding population" itself in any way. I am concerned solely and exclusively about lack of resources to serve a growing student population. It's my opinion that no young child can receive an excellent education in a 30-student class.

I hope that MCPS finds the resources to continue to provide an excellent education to all, and would gladly pay more taxes to help realize that. Unfortunately, I don't believe that this is a likely outcome.

Same $$$ + more students = lesser education for all.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 16:14     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best
Is OP aware that all 3rd, 4th, and 5th graders get Chromebooks? That there are interactive white boards in every classroom in elementary? The private school I work at has none of these.
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 15:58     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
FCPS is the same.


I've never really been impressed with MCPS to begin with.

When it was considered good, it was really just a handful of schools that really stood out. And the that top percent was what one of the previous superintendents would always flaunt and brag about.

As the other poster mentioned a lot of what's going on is reflective of what's going on across the region and country as a whole. For example dropping SAT scores.

Baltimore County Public Schools implemented a new policy where they can't give students lower than 50% and also no grades associated with homework or effort:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-co-grading-policy-20160831-story.html

Some of it might have to do with seeing what other school systems are like to appreciate what you have as well. Where I've seen people come from other school systems talking about some of the great offerings and resources that MCPS has compared to what they saw in their previous school district.

I think this part is very true. We came from CA where school funding is abysmal. Services offered by mcps is leagues above what we got in CA - and I don't mean special needs services, I mean things like art, PE, gifted, immersion, IB programs.


Agree 1,000%
Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 15:57     Subject: Re:Montco Schools are no longer the best


Did you even read the first link, or was this a quick "Google and skim"? The principal study cited relates to publicly funded "private" charter schools, which is obviously not what we're talking about here.

FWIW, the valedictorian at my private high school graduated with a B+/A- average. Not one student in a class of 80 had an "A" average. Roughly 1/4 of my graduating class attended Ivy League or equivalents. My GPA jumped a full grade my freshman year of college, with much less effort on my part. Your portrayal of privates certainly does not reflect my experience.

All that said, I have no doubt that many privates are grade inflation factories and that many publics perform admirably. However, the core issue here is whether MCPS will continue to perform admirably. Unfortunately, I have serious doubts, given the expanding population and limited resources.




There are two studies linked. The first is helpful in that they include all the critiques of these types of studies and they study the same groups of kids going to two different types of schools. The second is helpful in that it specifically controls for parents which is (I guess) important according to the study.

We will agree to disagree. I would say your anecdotal experience from years ago doesn't have much to say about public v. private schools around here now. Also, these studies suggest that your parents and your friends' parents impacted your later success rather than the incremental benefit of private school over public. This is what they mean by controlling for parental involvement/success and the 'incremental' benefit of private all else being equal.

Grade inflation is an ongoing conversation at universities -- specifically how much worse it has gotten in the last 10 years and how entitled students are when they arrive. So your experience (N=1) could remain valid and still not speak to the current conditions. It also still fits within the general findings that parents dictate student success rather than private over public schools.

I'm fine with the 'expanding population'. But you are right in that a private school keeps out the 'expanding population' you refer to with such disdain.

Anonymous
Post 09/07/2016 15:34     Subject: Montco Schools are no longer the best
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
FCPS is the same.


I've never really been impressed with MCPS to begin with.

When it was considered good, it was really just a handful of schools that really stood out. And the that top percent was what one of the previous superintendents would always flaunt and brag about.

As the other poster mentioned a lot of what's going on is reflective of what's going on across the region and country as a whole. For example dropping SAT scores.

Baltimore County Public Schools implemented a new policy where they can't give students lower than 50% and also no grades associated with homework or effort:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/education/bs-md-co-grading-policy-20160831-story.html

Some of it might have to do with seeing what other school systems are like to appreciate what you have as well. Where I've seen people come from other school systems talking about some of the great offerings and resources that MCPS has compared to what they saw in their previous school district.

I think this part is very true. We came from CA where school funding is abysmal. Services offered by mcps is leagues above what we got in CA - and I don't mean special needs services, I mean things like art, PE, gifted, immersion, IB programs.