Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

The facts speak for themselves - surely it is not a coincidence that in a city where almost 2/3 of public school kids are AA, less than half of Latin kids are AA. In a city where about 3/4 of kids receive Free and Reduced Meals, only 18% of kids at Latin do.

Sources: DCPS as a whole: http://dcps.dc.gov/node/966292
Latin: http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/809-Washington-Latin-PCS---Middle-School/details/


You want examples of small and subtle things? How about the aggressive recruiting at JKLM schools, and the non-existent recruiting east of the river. How about putting the school way up in the middle of nowhere in Ward 4, hard to reach by metro, impossible to reach by bus (especially for kids who live in Wards 7 and 8). How about the uniforms that are required to be purchased at either LL Bean or in Georgetown. How about the school-organized buses, that happen to be predominantly in wealthier parts of the city, and cost $1,500 annually.

All those things create huge barriers to poor kids. Granted, the kids who make it past these hurdles get help - they can apply for free busing, they can get help with uniforms, etc. But it's all of the first steps that weed out poor kids, kids from non-English speaking households, etc.

These aren't giant obvious things - but the proof is in the results: a disproportionately white and wealthy student body in a public charter school that is supposed to be open equally to all children in the city.

Achievement Prep requires ties and embroidered shirts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendship charter schools also "require" the logo embroidered shirts, which are $12 each. I put "require" in quotes because while this "requirement" is on the school's literature, other parents told me that a non-embroidered shirt (which Wal Mart sells for less than $5) was ok and since school started, I have noticed many kids (including my own) in plain shirts.

My $.02: the embroidered shirts are an unnecessary expense for families. A simple uniform of commonly available clothes is fine, but the schools need to have a large selection of free uniform compliant clothes for kids in need.

Punishing kids for this is ridiculous.

Ugh - if the school is going to require the embroidered shirt when they know the population they serve is low income they either need to be providing the shirt or providing a very low cost embroider shirt to parents.

It's not that complicated really, don't have embroidered shirts as others have stated or have it be a patch that you sew on. Easier then to use donated shirts. I don't know in many African and Caribbean countries were parents aren't rich many any stretch of the imagination students look smart and presentable every day in clean uniforms. Some of those parents don't even have running water let alone washing machines. Don't let exceptions to the rule change the policy, for most low-income and/or busy parents uniforms are good. Kids can be absolutely brutal to those kids who are not dressed in the latest fashion in clothing or shoes. Students who wear Payless shoes and other non-brand clothing get picked on all the time, uniforms make it a "little" more equal.

9:55 from page 1 here.

I think it is worth pointing out that there are foundations that provide free uniforms to students in developing countries. This foundation, for example: http://tailoredforeducation.org So when you are talking about students in the developing world who "look smart and presentable" despite their families' lack of running water, please keep in mind that the students may be receiving their uniforms from the school and having them cleaned elsewhere.

From experience, no you wash out your clothes by hand and scrub them, wearing a uniform is a source of pride. Launderettes and dry-cleaning, what is that? Wash, wear, and iron. And usually the kids wash their own uniforms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned here -- my (very limited) experience is that in ES, uniform violations are not penalized. It's not until MS that school regulations seem to get more strict.

Also, I think one reason some schools require at patch or logo is because neighborhood residents rely on the uniforms to identify & notify the schools when their students are, for example, rowdy at the bus stop after school. If you have two schools in relative proximity with the same uniform colors, then it's impossible to tell which school the kids attend.

People notify the school that kids are being rowdy? Brown kids or white kids? Because kids are rowdy sometimes - its part of childhood.

ALL the time.

Anonymous wrote:One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned here -- my (very limited) experience is that in ES, uniform violations are not penalized. It's not until MS that school regulations seem to get more strict.

Also, I think one reason some schools require at patch or logo is because neighborhood residents rely on the uniforms to identify & notify the schools when their students are, for example, rowdy at the bus stop after school. If you have two schools in relative proximity with the same uniform colors, then it's impossible to tell which school the kids attend.

People notify the school that kids are being rowdy? Brown kids or white kids? Because kids are rowdy sometimes - its part of childhood.

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned here -- my (very limited) experience is that in ES, uniform violations are not penalized. It's not until MS that school regulations seem to get more strict.

Also, I think one reason some schools require at patch or logo is because neighborhood residents rely on the uniforms to identify & notify the schools when their students are, for example, rowdy at the bus stop after school. If you have two schools in relative proximity with the same uniform colors, then it's impossible to tell which school the kids attend.

Anonymous wrote:Children would need non uniform clothes as well. With a few systems in place uniforms can work very well for students. Dvoraks article shed attention ( I'm not sure light as she didn't really shed light on the role.of social services/ school facilitators here) but I'm guessing everyone is on the lookout to help these students and if not there will be a follow up article. If you suspect that schools institute uniforms to penalize poor students thats a reflection of how poorly the article was written. I'm pretty sure thats not he place any school is coming from and she could have explored that far more as well.

I don't think anyone thinks that people institute uniforms to hurt poor kids - rather it can be an unintended consequence for some.

Anonymous wrote:Well, Petula Devorak is always a bit dramatic, so it's hard to know if this is accurate.

+1 I enjoy her digging on interesting local stories, but I think she tends to embellish.

Children would need non uniform clothes as well. With a few systems in place uniforms can work very well for students. Dvoraks article shed attention ( I'm not sure light as she didn't really shed light on the role.of social services/ school facilitators here) but I'm guessing everyone is on the lookout to help these students and if not there will be a follow up article. If you suspect that schools institute uniforms to penalize poor students thats a reflection of how poorly the article was written. I'm pretty sure thats not he place any school is coming from and she could have explored that far more as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Thats your solution? These children are way better off in the same uniform as everyone else, than fighting the status wars of clothing. This is a problem for schools with uniforms to work out with the right entities. They should enforce their uniform codes in a reasonable way (otherwise they're pointless). However there should be some relief available for homeless and high poverty students. There are a hundred mechanisms to do this. There are many ways to do this short of getting lawyers involved, including donating, pta funds, uniform exchanges, or someone mentioned a mechanism through social workers that needs to be speeded up. If you are at a school with uniforms ask how children in the immediate future are being taken care of. And then start working to longer term solutions. That involves effort.

Many of DC Schools with uniforms are title 1 schools - some upwards of 60%. You need Old Navy / the Children's Place to sponsor a school for year and provide 3 bottoms and 5 tops for a child. You also need a uniform coordinator who collects and redistributes when items are grown out of.

Our school has this, but I've also purchased uniforms for two of my sons classmates. Gave them to the teacher and they passed it along. I saw they were coming to school without their uniforms several times, and just picked up exactly what the pp indicated; 5 shirts and 3 bottoms exactly. I would do this again if needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

Please back up that assertion. As someone whose child went to WL since fifth grade and saw how the school and parent community went out of their way to draw students from all four quadrants of the city and support students with every kind of struggle. As someone who knows students who were homeless at Latin who were supported all the way through college, I am not going to descend to your level by saying all the great things WL does as this thread is not about WL. However, if you throw out such a scurrilous, flip and irresponsible remark be prepared to back it up. Please detail your extensive examples and direct experience (no speculation and assumptions please so you don't waste all of our time) of the small, subtle and sadly legal things WL has done to keep poor kids out. Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

I'll say this for Latin - they are experts at all the small and subtle (and sadly legal) things that can be done to keep and get poor kids out of their "public" school.

I'm so glad my child's school sells the uniform t-shirts for $5 each. Then we have to buy khaki bottoms (shorts, skirts, pants), just can't be jeans.

Whenever my child outgrows the uniforms, we donate them back to our school, and we also donate the bottoms so that the school can provide them to children who don't have uniforms and can't afford them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

Latins middle school has less than 10% economically disadvantaged kids.

Maybe give those khakis to a less wealthy school.

I've been on free and reduced lunch. The uniform store in Georgetown is not expensive and as discussed ad nauseum, there should be recourse for ses challenged and homeless. Where is social services? Latin had more uniforms in its uniform drive than stuff... Easily coordinated with the school to get them in the right hands if/as needed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What schools require lands end ???? Christ. We've had two kids in 4 DC public schools and all have required uniforms, none have been so specific.

Latin. Vendors are Lands End and another uniform store in Georgetown.

A fairly cheap uniform store in Georgetown. Our child went to Latin - we bought 2-3 shirts from the cheap store, cheap khakis from old navy. Done. We also donated outgrown clothes to the many yearly uniform exchanges which appeared to have a massive overflow.

There's nothing cheap in Georgetown. I guess whether something is cheap is relative to One's bank account.

Latins middle school has less than 10% economically disadvantaged kids.

Maybe give those khakis to a less wealthy school.