Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was in the context of showing love. I already felt a little unappreciated from helping so much with the baby, household, and cooking and started feeling resentment. So my continued gestures to be a good husband for doing all the cooking and a lot of chores was one way I was trying to show love. Of course I cut off communications with the ex and focused all my attention on the wife. But those were smaller gestures compared to the amount of damage I caused. This he suggested some grand gestures and to initiate more date nights.

But I could really use some genuine help and ideas for how to demonstrate that I am still in life with DW.

The first thing you can do is grow up. Then after she sees that you act like a grow up for a year or so, she will believe you and not be resentful.

sorry dude, you did the crime do the time. It does not just magically go away because you want it to.

Stay in therapy to find out why you are so needy.

Meet her for lunch once a week, plan a date once a month (plan it, hire the babysitter, make it at least a 1/2 a day), go on a vacation that you plan with the child, go on an overnight that you plan and you plan the babysitter.

BTW, these are not grand gestures, these are normal things a couple does when they love each other.

+ a million

Sorry you felt unappreciated, asshat.

Guess what? You're a parent now. You aren't babysitting a stranger...you are caring for your child. You aren't pitching in to help your wife (as if everything is somehow her responsibility)...you are parenting and running the household.

Jeez, some men are beyond selfish and stupid.

And you think she should immediately forgive you for flirting with your ex?

Unbelievable.

Anonymous wrote:I am looking for ideas how to make amends with my wife. We had a child 1.5 years ago and for the past 7 mo, I got back back in contact with someone I used to date long distance. Innocent conversations about family turned to flirting and she found my texts. She is hurt and wants out. I apologized profusely and never intended for this to go anywhere. None of the begging or heart felt apologies seem to work as she said it doesn't feel genuine. I've tried taking her to a nice dinner to no avail. She's not looking for an expensive gift. She didn't like the flowers I bought. I've been going to counseling and just asked her to join me. Counselor suggested I try some grand gestures. I need some ideas to make amends, but other than a trip, I don't have anything that can help us with bonding and show that I am truly sorry.

Any ideas to help mend a heart?

I did the same thing under pretty much the same circumstances. I know why you did it, I understand. It doesn't make it right. My wife wasn't as adamant about divorce as yours seems to be but she felt betrayed. Go to therapy and work on it and most of all be honest and open. You both need to be open and honest with each other and you should always have access to each other's phones, messages etc. it will take time, you betrayed her trust and that's huge. For women, entitled al affairs are worse, you're investing time into another woman instead of her.

If you're really sorry, and I believe you are - just understand it will take time to earn that back but she'll probably question everything you do from a long time. Beyond that, she has to learn to move on and therapy will help with that. You both should go.

Anonymous wrote:It was in the context of showing love. I already felt a little unappreciated from helping so much with the baby, household, and cooking and started feeling resentment. So my continued gestures to be a good husband for doing all the cooking and a lot of chores was one way I was trying to show love. Of course I cut off communications with the ex and focused all my attention on the wife. But those were smaller gestures compared to the amount of damage I caused. This he suggested some grand gestures and to initiate more date nights.

But I could really use some genuine help and ideas for how to demonstrate that I am still in life with DW.

You don't "help" with these things. You are responsible for these things, as a spouse and adult member of the household.

Your use of the word "help" speaks volumes about your perception of your role in the marriage and family.

OP, I'm hoping for your sake that you're just immature. That can be fixed with time and perspective. You come off as a whiner complaining about "helping with the baby" when taking care of your family is exactly what you do as an adult. I think you need to do two things. First, own up to the fact that you wanted something to happen with the ex. You may not now, but at that time you most certainly did. Second, find a way to draw inspiration from whatever sources you need to. I personally draw my inspiration from the command module pilots of the Apollo era. My mom seems to draw hers from lighthouse keepers. I don't think you need to do grand gestures. You do need to be thinking of things to do with your wife and then actually do those things. You need to be open to her ideas and she needs to be open to yours. I don't think it's realistic to expect one partner to do all the planning and implementation, and yes, it took me years to get to that realization. You both need to make sure that you live where you want to live and have access to resources and activities that make your lives as a couple and a family enjoyable. Only you and your wife can figure that out, and in some respects they will both be different. My husband doesn't give a rat's ass about the neighborhood pool. My kids and I love it. I'm sure there are things he cares about that I don't. So long as you can appreciate that these things matter to the other person that's all you need to do.

I personally don't like OP's wife that much. She sounds spoiled.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else think maybe the wife has PPD? She's losing her shit over some long distance online flirting, having trouble waking up despite not doing night feedings, plus other examples op gave of wife seeming unmotivated.

Is your wife a SAHM op?

I thought the same thing. It could be as simple as being in the trenches and sleep deprived, I remember how stressful the early childhood years are. Then again, some people lose their shit over anything other than absolute strict monogamy. I had to re-read his original post to make sure I wasn't missing the fact he had a full blown affair, based on some comments here calling him an abuser.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else think maybe the wife has PPD? She's losing her shit over some long distance online flirting, having trouble waking up despite not doing night feedings, plus other examples op gave of wife seeming unmotivated.

Is your wife a SAHM op?

Or maybe OP is a dick. He's in here, asking for someone to tell him how to make amends, while simultaneously dodging/denying responsibility for his actions. And you're helping, PP.

Step one: Acknowledge, fully, that your actions caused her pain. It wasn't "just" texting, or you would've told your wife about it in the first place. Being sneaky and devious kills trust. No buts, no "if you had been less... I wouldn't have had to..." blameshifting, just own the suck. All of it. Quit using minimizing language and trying to make it look less crappy than it was. That's not a sincere apology, and she'll see right through it. If you're not going to take full responsibility for your actions, don't bother "apologizing" because you're not really sorry.

Step two: Apologize. Not "I'm sorry if..." Not "I'm sorry I hurt you, but you also hurt me." Not "I'm so sorry and I feel so awful and I suck and poor me please pity me." An actual apology. I am sorry that I did the messed up thing I did, and I understand how my actions have hurt you.

Step three: Amends. Amends are about making it right. So figure out just what, exactly, you messed up. You diverted your time and energy away from your partner (and new baby). Find ways to pay it back. You took away her ability to trust you. Man, that's shit. You're going to have to be 100% transparent going forward, and don't ask her to trust you at all. Just be trustworthy. Trust is about being consistent; this will take time. Get to the heart of why she's hurt. Really listen to what she says, and take action to heal those wounds.

Step four: Action. Do. Do more. This is not about saying you're sorry (which you don't really even seem to be, so this whole post may be moot). This is about showing you're sorry, and doing the work to bridge the gap you caused between you and your spouse. Whatever "helping" you thought you were doing earlier? Triple it.

And if you're not willing to do these things, because you're such a self-absorbed, myopic jerk (and I think this is likely, given both your actions and your denials/dismissive language about them even here), just tell her. You owe her honesty.

She's probably already aware that you're not partner material, and that's why she's on her way out.

Whatever you do, don't go down that road PP suggested, wherein you minimize the damage you've caused, and try to blameshift and make it about something else (her mental health). Women are culturally programmed to believe it's all our fault anyway, and if you exploit that to cover your own ass, you are the lowest of the low.

Does anyone else think maybe the wife has PPD? She's losing her shit over some long distance online flirting, having trouble waking up despite not doing night feedings, plus other examples op gave of wife seeming unmotivated.

Is your wife a SAHM op?

OP, you keep minimizing what you did with the other woman. If it was enough to make your wife want to divorce you, you need to stop minimizing and rationalizing. When you minimalize your actions that cause someone that much pain, you're minimalizing that person, giving the message that their feelings are not valid, that you don't really care. And that's why she has good reason not to believe you're sincere or that you really care.

And you are a scorekeeper. Do you really want to go down that path keeping score against the woman who literally grew and birthed the baby? Scorekeeping is always a great way to sabotage a marriage and kill off love.

You sound entitled. Like, I helped with our baby, so I deserve some escape, in a form that involves lying, cheating, and hurting my wife.

And your underlying tone involves trying to blame her. She didn't give you enough attention at the most demanding phase of life, she didn't spend time sexting you. She didn't thank you for everything you did. So on some level you feel it's partly her fault you did what you did.

You didn't handle things very well, and your immaturity and selfishness and need for immediate gratification won out over doing the right things and putting your wife and child first. So you're human and you made a mistake. Own it, redeem yourself, change your attitudes, grow up. These are things that will be good for you to do, regardless of whether your wife stays or not.

If you really are doing as much as you think you are, I wouldn't think she'd be so ready to divorce you, because you'd be indispensable. Maybe she feels she can manage fine without you, and you don't do as much as you think, and you're like another child. Or maybe what you did hurt her so much, and she finds that the loss of trust is so unbearable, that she just can't tolerate staying. You hear people say it all the time, that if their partner cheated, they wouldn't be able to get over it.

Just staying and trying to move forward and heal is all the work she should feel she has to put into this right now. Time does help with healing.

Sorry, OP, but you seem truly immature and seem like your an incessant scorekeeper who resents being a parent. Just divorce. At least with shred custody you'd get the breaks you seem to so desperately need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Delete the other woman's info, get rid of the texts, be completely open in terms of letting your wife see your phone, your texts, emails, etc. Don't ever say "I'm going out" but be specific and let her know where you're going.

Basically, be HONEST and TRANSPARENT. Be patient.

All thie ^^^
Making amends after 7 months of texting & flirting with an ex is going to take time. A lot of time. Keep being there for her.

I like that you are going to therapy. That will help.

How about you ask your wife what she wants to see from you?

I already did and she doesn't want to feel like she has to tell me how to make amends. I should already know how and it has to be my own ideas. I am stuck here other than setting up date nights or a weekend trip. I'm not winning any points for the day to day help that makes her life easier.

You keep referencing your "help". I find that odd. As if you think everything is ultimately her job but that you pitch in and help. Being a parent and being in a marriage are both team efforts. All of it is both of your jobs. You aren't the "helper." Has your wife revealed all of this to anyone, in particular her mother or a sister? If so, you'll end up divorced. When she spills the beans to trusted allies she has already accepted that she genuinely wants out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[bout the day, weekend plans, cooking, and fantasy football.

2) She isn't insecure in that way. But breaking her trust has put her into an emotional spiral. I told her it was totally my fault and a one time thing.

OP which is it - was it completely your fault or does your wife need to "admit what she's done wrong"?

You sound like a child. I would also want a divorce; a grown man shouldn't need to be told how to keep the household running and how to demonstrate loyalty and remorse.

It's my responsibility and I own my mistake. The texting was an escape for me. I did share my frustration with the division of labor. One example is that I initially took the morning duty since I have an easier time to get up, but as dd's schedule changed, I couldn't convince DW to take over the morning shift even if I was late to work. How I handled it became my problem.

Another poster mentioned how they would alternate between husband and wife to watch tv or mess with the computer. She somehow got the free time to sleep in on weekends and watch tv during week nights. This was way past the period where the baby needed so much attention.

I didn't need to be told what to do as I was doing it. When I told her things that needed to be done, that's when I get push back. Somehow I ended up doing a lot of work to what some house wives on dcum complain about their husbands.

Anonymous wrote:OP: your 9:34 comment that "I wish it were that salacious."

Be honest. For seven months you were in contact with this person as the messages got more flirty. Were you trying to get it to a sexual level and you just got found out before it could escalate? And do you miss your text friend even as you're trying to make amends?

The texting just stayed at a certain level. We flirted about 10-15% of the time, the rest was just banter. Ideally I would have liked to do these things with my wife.

OP here. Reading all the responses is strangely therapeutic and it is interesting to see everyones interpretations along the way. PP, you nailed alot of her thought process about the whole situation except for the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. You are right, I am not an equal partner. I felt in put in WAY more work which included finger feeding when DD was an infant, staying up ALL nights so that DW could rest, took the morning shift, took turns bathing, took the baby when either DW or DD was sick, coordinated pickup for donated breastmilk, and at least 50/50 for the other baby caring duties while working full time. This doesn't mean I am justified for what I did, but just wanted to clarify the level of effort I was putting in. I can handle all aspects of the baby care and DW even notices that DD favors me way more because of the work I had put in from the beginning.

With that being said, I am putting energy into making amends. It's just not what she is looking for which is why I was seeking some potential ideas. I am currently interviewing for some baby sitters so that it can free up some plans for week day date nights. I'm not looking for cheap forgiveness, but I am on the clock because each day that I don't have any action, she is looking to leave. So I am on her time table, not mine. Of course I know this takes time and I told her I am dedicated to doing that to repair my wrongs, but not if I am gone before my time is up.

Been following this thread and I think with the additional info there are sort of three issues going on

1) The long-term division of labor issue isn't resolved. I don't know if this is a communication thing or if you have to either accept it or throw money at it to relieve the resentment. If this is a matter of communication, you can't bring this up now as it being her part of why you reached out to your ex. But if you don't figure this out there will still be resentment on your part even if DW agrees to stay

2) Attending therapy and DW feeling like she didn't do anything. I think marriage counseling in this case shouldn't be an admission she did anything wrong nor should it be a sign she will forgive you and stay. It should be to help support you in the journey to being a better person/spouse/father and if it comes to it to help you guys to co-parent amicably.

3) Making amends, I agree with pp that if she tells you it may be inauthentic and trying to take a shortcut. Consistency, time, and patience, and doing the work in individual therapy are what will make the difference. I'm not sure what state you live in but most places require a 1 year separation. Between the separation requirement and the logistics of divorcing with a young child (especially if you have been doing as much as you say), I think you have some time. I'm not saying she for sure will stay, but I think she needs to be able to make the choice that knowing what she knows now, and seeing the growth you are experiencing, she would still choose to stay married to you. I agree with the other PP that mentioned the sense of control. You made a decision to bring an outside person into your relationship. You got to experience some escapism and whatever you got by flirting with an ex. You made the decision, nope, still want to stay married. DW should also get to make decisions about the relationship that you don't get to control and make her choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I essentially did the same thing, even though I love my spouse very much. I had a weakness with this one person from my past who I should never have allowed back into my life, even as a friend. It took a good three months until we weren't talking about it and shedding tears about it every day. My spouse never wanted out of the marriage over it, though, that I know of.

What helped was for me to offer complete transparency, which I continued to do to this day, about 9 months later. I also answered all questions openly, honestly, and without being upset that the questions were asked in the first place. I think it also helped that my spouse saw how upset I was, saw the regret and shame I felt. I also went into counseling, which we are now doing together.

It sounds like the difference for you is that your spouse does not seem to want to work on the marriage. Is that true? Are there other major issues within your marriage that you have not mentioned? For us--and I know some people will call BS on this -- but we were actually pretty happy before this happened. Not perfect, but happy and in a loving marriage. What's your history?

If you're both willing to work on the marriage, to express yourselves openly, and to show vulnerabilities, you can heal from this. Dig deeper in order to get to know each other more. Just a short 9 months later my spouse and I are doing so much better, but we have both worked for it.

OP here. Thanks for sharing. This is exactly what happened with this particular person. She doesn't really want to work on the marriage b/c she doesn't think she did anything wrong. It took several weeks to get her to come to counseling and it went better than I thought this past weekend. But out of the session, she is expecting that I am already planning everything out and jumping through hoops.

We were pretty happy in the marriage before this happened just like you. She will work on it, but only if I am able to demonstrate my love. I just need to know what she considers amends so that I am not grasping at straws.

I am the PP you are responding to. The thing is, she didn't do anything to "deserve" your emotional affair or whatever the two of you have decided to call it. My spouse did nothing to cause me to have an emotional affair, either. My spouse did a lot of self-blaming even though I always take 100% responsibility, offering no excuses. Now, throughout the counseling process we have discovered the weaknesses in our marriage. We haven't focused on finger-pointing, but rather strengthening ourselves as individuals and strengthening our marriage. It has allowed us to focus on each of our needs within the relationship, and what the other can do in order to fulfill them. This was sure a shitty way to go about it, and I wouldn't recommend it, but we are ending up stronger because of my emotional affair and the ensuing work we have put into our marriage.

It sounds like the difference is that your wife wants you to just fix things. This is the thing that sucks about affairs. You are the one who betrayed your spouse, but the betrayed spouse, however innocent, has to do a lot of the work in order to heal things. The affair is your fault, but because it is a marriage, you can't fix it by yourself. You both need to do the work. That was the hardest part of what I did-- knowing that I could not just fix everything I fucked up, but that a huge part of the onus was on my innocent spouse.

As a cheated upon wife, I actually find the whole above exchange between OP and PP offensive, delusional and so typical of the kind of "reconciliation" that is forced upon wives. First, when OP says "she doesn't want to work on marriage because she doesn't think she did anything wrong," OP's wife is oh, so right. The failure of the wife to do something or the failure of an aspect of a marriage or the OP's "not getting his need met in marriage" is not the cause of cheating (whether it's physical sex, or emotional cheating). The cause of that is the OP himself -- his own weakness in seeking to get needs met in an inappropriate way. That is not wife's fault. That is not something wife can fix in therapy; it's not her job at all to fix OP.

In fact, I view cheating as emotionally abusive and it is NOT appropriate for a therapist to solve abuse by having the abuser and the victim together in therapy. I know lots of marital counselors take this approach -- putting the couple into therapy to fix the problem in the marriage -- but it is wrong. PP's description of therapy sounds like this approach. Basically the message sent to the spouse by this kind of therapy is, "you failed to provide something, so your spouse sought it outside the marriage. If you provide that something now and in the future, then spouse will no longer cheat." This is really manipulative. Most of the time, cheating partners like PP believe the "marriage is stronger" but in reality, the wife has just decided to swallow the crap and move on. This doesn't really make the marriage stronger.

PP is right about one thing -- you can't fix a marriage by yourself and the cheating partner cannot by himself continue the marriage. It is entirely up to the victim spouse to decide -- does she want a marriage like this (one broken by trust)? Does she want to live, on balance, with this partner (who has X good qualities and Y crappy ones).

First, OP's cheating isn't abuse. People need to stop throwing that word around. (It's like "infidelity" or "affair". Now there's "financial infidelity" too! Is that "abuse"?) It cheapens the seriousness of abuse. What he did may have been mean or thoughtless or selfish. It may have made his wife feel bad. But calling it "abuse" is ridiculous.

Second, seeking validation outside of the marriage is pretty normal. Lots of people want to feel the excitement of new relationships, of relationships not bogged down in the day-to-day. Totally normal. Would have been good for OP to avoid going to another woman for that validation and excitement and find a way to get that in his marriage. That's obviously harder to do, but if you've made the vow, it's the right thing to do. But to suggest that he's some abusive monster for doing it is over the top.

Third, PP is right that, in the end, it comes down to a decision on both sides as to whether it is worth the work. OP can decide whether he wants to stand by if his wife is taking forever to get over it, and his wife can decide whether she finds it worth her time and energy to do the work to get over it.

Finally, I think PP's defensiveness is blinding her to the fact that the cheating may, in fact, be about things missing from the marriage. Might not be anyone's fault, but I do believe that working on understanding what was missing can help strengthen the marriage. But for that to happen, the cheated upon person has to be willing to get over it.