Anonymous wrote:I would really like people to define their specific challenges with the DC area because I have no idea what these criticisms mean. Is it the commute? Do you have some evidence that people in this metropolitan region work longer hours per year than other cities? I do know the cost of childcare is high, but I haven't seen much else that is actually quantifiable in these complaints. I hear people saying everyone in DC defines themselves by their jobs, but no one I know does. I used to live a few hours away from here and everyone I knew wanted to move to DC. If you really hate it that much, it's probably your job and your life you hate, not the city.

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Anonymous wrote:We made the escape last year and have no regrets. I loved DC when I was younger and single but we both decided once kids come along it would be great to move back home. We live in a small town on outskirts of a large Midwestern city. DH got offers comparable to his DC salary and COL is so low I'm able to SAH for now. My job was one of those "only in DC" types but I'm looking forward to doing something completely different once I'm ready to get back to work.

It works for us because we are homebodies for the most part but can get into the city on a weekend if we want, but something to think about if you love going out all the time. There is a trade off.

Op, if I were you I'd pick a couple places, vacation there a couple times and start sending resumes. You may be surprised at salaries like we were. It's just not true that there are no good jobs in "fly over country".

Well I live outside Detroit, and are there good jobs, yes, but very few unless you have something to do with making a car. Is there someone who works in an ad agency or investment banking and makes good money? Not predominant unless you are in a high COL area. And I don't see it as anything different in Cleveland or St. Louis.

Anonymous wrote:We made the escape last year and have no regrets. I loved DC when I was younger and single but we both decided once kids come along it would be great to move back home. We live in a small town on outskirts of a large Midwestern city. DH got offers comparable to his DC salary and COL is so low I'm able to SAH for now. My job was one of those "only in DC" types but I'm looking forward to doing something completely different once I'm ready to get back to work.

It works for us because we are homebodies for the most part but can get into the city on a weekend if we want, but something to think about if you love going out all the time. There is a trade off.

Op, if I were you I'd pick a couple places, vacation there a couple times and start sending resumes. You may be surprised at salaries like we were. It's just not true that there are no good jobs in "fly over country".

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Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information.

Anonymous wrote:We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

I disagree. A job is a job. If I'm going to work I may as well be challenged, have upward mobility and get paid well. I would still work if I moved to a smaller town but lose a lot of these things. I work for a US wide firm and see how much faster employees are promoted in bigger cities. I'm much younger but the same level as many much older employees in smaller cities.

I feel like with a smaller city or town you're just swapping one set of challenges for another. Maybe you face less traffic but then you have to drive greater distances to go where you need to go. Maybe work is less hectic but then there are fewer opportunities and other employers. Maybe childcare is cheaper but then more women stay home and there's a stigma to working. I have lived in a few different cities and think DC is great. There are a ton of jobs here and the cost of living isn't that bad compared to NY or SF.

I think many of the people who complain about DC have never lived in a place like NY or London and have no idea how good they have it here. Unfortunately, life as an adult is hard and will be hard anywhere. Having kids and working isn't going to be easy no matter where you are.

And there in lies the weird DC attitude. "Life is just going to be tough from ages 25-65, and DC is better than NY, so just suck it up for 30 more years until you retire." Well, life wasn't tough at all for us when we lived in a small town with kids. Everything was SO EASY. And because we had DC home equity, and DC resumes, we were pretty well paid relative to a lot of people living there. Even if we were making less than we would if we stayed in DC. Most people I know who move elsewhere find that life is a lot easier. It's a DC/NY/SF myth that life has to be shitty and tough while you have kids.

I'm the PP. I don't find my life tough at all. I have a high standard of living here. I was trying to point out that life has to be shitty but more that I think some posters have unrealistic expectations. Regardless of where you live having a two income household with two parents working full time isn't easy. Commuting isn't easy. Paying for college isn't easy. Having kids isn't easy. These are things you'll most likely have to do regardless of where you live. I am a firm believer that your problems follow you. I wouldn't assume that leaving DC is going to solve all of your problems. I think you'll simply be trading problems.

That's great you found life easier in your small town but I wonder what happens as you try and advance or as you want to find another employer. It might not be so easy anymore. Or maybe you'll face different challenges with your children growing up in a small town.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

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One other warning: if you go someone lower key, you have to just accept a professional step down. either because your job is less good or pays less well, or simply because you'll be surrounded by a bunch of other people who don't give a crap what you do because they are teachers, or zumba instructors, or a/c repair guys, or stay at home moms. We define much of our happiness in DC by our jobs and our degrees. By necessity, a low COL community is going to have less people with good jobs, is going to have less good jobs, is going to have lower quality colleagues in your somewhat good job, is going to have less good clients. No matter how good your job is in the new place, it will never be a "DC job". We are sooooo okay with that. We are a power couple and have it all (reputation, success, $$), but we're like "who cares?" and happy to walk away. Just a warning.

Yes, this. I used to think about my home town in flyover country -- nice, relaxing, midwestern college town. Recently I've had to do business there to settle some affairs. First it's quite different than here. There's so much less national news, access to information. Also my job here in DC allows me to make policy that affects the entire US-- it's really important to the future of the planet. I feel compelled by it, interested in doing the very best that I can and like I am making a difference. This is a DC job-- nothing comparable is available in my hometown. I would really miss this-- the responsibility, the complexity, and the incredibly high level of people I work with-- they are quite simply amazing people.

Ultimately I have decided to stay out here and keep my DC job. We've found a slower pace of life through our communities here (religious, school, neighborhood). Our house is close in and affordable, albeit smallish.

I posted earlier about being ready to make an escape but this is something I struggle with. It's not just the stability and good pay, it's all that with a job I love in public service, which is important to me. But spending time with my kids also is important to me, and I hate living in unwalkable neighborhoods with a long commute. Sometimes I think I could be perfectly happy being a secretary for the local dentist in some small New England town.

PP, honestly I've been looking at jobs in Fairfax and Arlington Counties lately because I too am drawn to public service but I feel like its a place where I can point to something I actually can get done that HELPS someone, in a real and more immediate sense. Just saying that the national scale is not the only way to effect change, if anything I feel like my friends who work at the state level in various states are really hustling for the people more than I ever have.

This concept of finding high level satisfaction from one's job or needing to do something "important" is very much a "DC thing" (to go back to the OP's original point). I dunno. My husband and i both have the best of the best DC jobs: high compensation, great hours, great titles and reputation, and really interesting work. Like, both of us are the people that are grad school peers point to as an ideal. The career services offices love to haul us out because our jobs are the kind that new students move to DC dreaming of. But enh. I'm of the mindset that, let's say i'm doing something really important (like others above have cited). So i quit my job and move to the mountains in tennessee. Guess what? Your employer will hire someone else and your work will still get done. I think it's a coping method in DC to deal with the fact that we otherwise have to make a lot of compromises (see above). My experience is people say that (i.e., "i couldn't possible leave DC, my job is too important, it provides me too much personal satisfaction) because they either haven't seen how good life can be outside this region, or they're too scared to confront the things that are missing from their lives.

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I think that's a little unfair. How many people post on here complaining about boring jobs, wondering how people end up in jobs they love, etc? I know the work will get done without me - I don't think *I* am important. I find my work really challenging and my coworkers are smart and fun to work with. That's hard to walk away from when you know you're kind of lucky to have found it in the first place. The only think missing from my life is affordable housing that's not two hours away from my job!

It's absolutely true though. D.C. in general lives to work, it does not work to live. Everybody is important!

I'm not saying it isn't true for some people, but it is also true that some people want jobs that are challenging, stimulating, and generally enjoyable. That's a separate issue and, I think, a legit one that factors into this decision. I just don't think it's fair to be dismissive of that concern and pretend like you're not giving anything up when you walk away from this life. Yes, those of us struggling with it need to prioritize and decide what it's worth to us, but that's what's hard.

Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

I disagree. A job is a job. If I'm going to work I may as well be challenged, have upward mobility and get paid well. I would still work if I moved to a smaller town but lose a lot of these things. I work for a US wide firm and see how much faster employees are promoted in bigger cities. I'm much younger but the same level as many much older employees in smaller cities.

I feel like with a smaller city or town you're just swapping one set of challenges for another. Maybe you face less traffic but then you have to drive greater distances to go where you need to go. Maybe work is less hectic but then there are fewer opportunities and other employers. Maybe childcare is cheaper but then more women stay home and there's a stigma to working. I have lived in a few different cities and think DC is great. There are a ton of jobs here and the cost of living isn't that bad compared to NY or SF.

I think many of the people who complain about DC have never lived in a place like NY or London and have no idea how good they have it here. Unfortunately, life as an adult is hard and will be hard anywhere. Having kids and working isn't going to be easy no matter where you are.

And there in lies the weird DC attitude. "Life is just going to be tough from ages 25-65, and DC is better than NY, so just suck it up for 30 more years until you retire." Well, life wasn't tough at all for us when we lived in a small town with kids. Everything was SO EASY. And because we had DC home equity, and DC resumes, we were pretty well paid relative to a lot of people living there. Even if we were making less than we would if we stayed in DC. Most people I know who move elsewhere find that life is a lot easier. It's a DC/NY/SF myth that life has to be shitty and tough while you have kids.

I'm the PP. I don't find my life tough at all. I have a high standard of living here. I was trying to point out that life has to be shitty but more that I think some posters have unrealistic expectations. Regardless of where you live having a two income household with two parents working full time isn't easy. Commuting isn't easy. Paying for college isn't easy. Having kids isn't easy. These are things you'll most likely have to do regardless of where you live. I am a firm believer that your problems follow you. I wouldn't assume that leaving DC is going to solve all of your problems. I think you'll simply be trading problems.

That's great you found life easier in your small town but I wonder what happens as you try and advance or as you want to find another employer. It might not be so easy anymore. Or maybe you'll face different challenges with your children growing up in a small town.

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Another PP jumping in. As I argued above, I think a lot of the people who want challenging jobs either have never lived somewhere without a challenging, a-type life and just simply don't realize how good life is in the absence of that job (because they've never had the pleasure of living somewhere else). Or alternatively, use their "love of job" as a defense of other issues going on in their life. Maybe they aren't really that comfortable with who they are. Maybe they don't love going home to their spouse and kids. Maybe they have a hard time understanding who they would be without their job defining them. Maybe they've always had a lot of family pressure to succeed and it's so ingrained that they can't fathom walking away. All I know is that when I lived in an awesome chill non-DC smaller metropolitan area, none of the former DC people who had relocated there (and there were many) missed their old life in DC where their job was their life. It is pretty easy to get over once you leave it behind.

This sounds exactly like the type of place we are looking for, where is it? We don't have family so are free to move wherever, would love to look into whichever city you were in. Care to share?