Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:52     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.


And there is a basic misunderstanding about Christianity. There are a zillion different branches and sects. From Unitarians & Quakers to Westboro baptist church. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Mainstream WASPs don't proselytize, talk about being "saved" or do much at bible camp but give kids a place to play safely once swim team is over for the summer, have a snack, maybe sing a few songs and (this is the real motivation) give SAHMs a break for a few hours. My redneck deep southern in-laws on the other hand? Yikes. Whole different mindset. If in-laws are WASP-y then this is a minor deal and it's doubtful kids will get much religion at all. If the are rednecks to the right of Southern Bapitist-- that's an issue.

Honestly, if DH married a Jewish woman and agreed to have Jewish kids, I'm assuming his parents are of the WASP variety. And that they know they can't manage the kids 24/7 and were looking for a safe, affordable breather. Plus don't know enough about current kids programs in the area to choose something else. ("What are we going to do with the grandkids all day? Of look, the church bulletin says that there is VBS that week...") OP-- in this case, VBS is probably very harmless. But if it's an issue, get on the Internet and find (and pay for) another 1/2 day camp. Or offer to pay a teen in your ILs neighborhood to take the kids to the pool for a while each morning.


OP - you're the only one who can identify which side it is, but at least consider this side. You don't mention the age of your ILs or kids, but unless they are particularly young and your children easy, you should assume you need to figure out some alternative daytime activities regardless. In general for most grandparents you should assume that getting them to 'watch' kids while you travel should be putting them on the overnight shift / being the responsible party if something goes wrong, NOT expecting them to provide 24-7 care.

Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:52     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I have to object to the people who are saying "what's wrong with learning a little about Christianity". I went to a Jewish school as a kid and I knew a lot more about Christianity than my Christian friends, because we were taught religion-- sort of like you consciously learn grammar in a foreign language but hardly any in your own. Plus, it's almost impossible to grow up in America and not learn a fair bit about Christian beliefs. So there are plenty of opportunities for learning about Christianity in context without that content being VBS.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:49     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Ok, I am the same age as the MIL probably and I fully admit that I engage in frequent sighs and eye rolling in the general direction of millennials, especially with regard to self entitlement, expectations, relationship with work and parents. Sorry, but I do. However.....

MIL was entirely and absolutely wrong wrong wrong. And, she knows she was wrong. She was being very deceitful, because she never mentioned what her plan was, and also very manipulative. I am actually shocked.

I'm pretty annoyed at "all the line in the sand" behavior millennial or near millennial parents posture towards their parents...the rules, the dictates, the estrangement over small things. FWIW, I am not a grandmother yet, but the stories from my friends are outrageous and ridiculous. But, in this case? You would have a pretty good case in going your own way- far away, although I would hope there would be a chance for the in laws to perhaps understand that they messed up and why before this is over completely. Maybe they need to understand this better. Maybe there is hope. Make an effort to have this conversation. I'm on your side on this. MIL was wrong.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:48     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
OP, just out of curiosity, what would your reaction be if your in laws took your kids to church on a Sunday?
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:46     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.


And there is a basic misunderstanding about Christianity. There are a zillion different branches and sects. From Unitarians & Quakers to Westboro baptist church. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Mainstream WASPs don't proselytize, talk about being "saved" or do much at bible camp but give kids a place to play safely once swim team is over for the summer, have a snack, maybe sing a few songs and (this is the real motivation) give SAHMs a break for a few hours. My redneck deep southern in-laws on the other hand? Yikes. Whole different mindset. If in-laws are WASP-y then this is a minor deal and it's doubtful kids will get much religion at all. If the are rednecks to the right of Southern Bapitist-- that's an issue.

Honestly, if DH married a Jewish woman and agreed to have Jewish kids, I'm assuming his parents are of the WASP variety. And that they know they can't manage the kids 24/7 and were looking for a safe, affordable breather. Plus don't know enough about current kids programs in the area to choose something else. ("What are we going to do with the grandkids all day? Of look, the church bulletin says that there is VBS that week...") OP-- in this case, VBS is probably very harmless. But if it's an issue, get on the Internet and find (and pay for) another 1/2 day camp. Or offer to pay a teen in your ILs neighborhood to take the kids to the pool for a while each morning.


honestly, we have no idea what the in laws are like. All this is conjecture. And I've been to the most waspy innocuous congregations and church is church. You believe that Jesus is your savior and your children are taught that. Even the most non bible thumping non red neck churches.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:45     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
I think the issue at VBC is Jesus: you can't escape Him at VBC. I think OP's kids might well feel awkward and maybe even a bit isolated, depending on the church. That's not to say that there's anything wrong or unwelcoming about VBC! But OP's kids would be different from most of the other kids, which sounds awkward and stressful.

Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:43     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.


And there is a basic misunderstanding about Christianity. There are a zillion different branches and sects. From Unitarians & Quakers to Westboro baptist church. You can't paint them all with the same brush. Mainstream WASPs don't proselytize, talk about being "saved" or do much at bible camp but give kids a place to play safely once swim team is over for the summer, have a snack, maybe sing a few songs and (this is the real motivation) give SAHMs a break for a few hours. My redneck deep southern in-laws on the other hand? Yikes. Whole different mindset. If in-laws are WASP-y then this is a minor deal and it's doubtful kids will get much religion at all. If the are rednecks to the right of Southern Bapitist-- that's an issue.

Honestly, if DH married a Jewish woman and agreed to have Jewish kids, I'm assuming his parents are of the WASP variety. And that they know they can't manage the kids 24/7 and were looking for a safe, affordable breather. Plus don't know enough about current kids programs in the area to choose something else. ("What are we going to do with the grandkids all day? Of look, the church bulletin says that there is VBS that week...") OP-- in this case, VBS is probably very harmless. But if it's an issue, get on the Internet and find (and pay for) another 1/2 day camp. Or offer to pay a teen in your ILs neighborhood to take the kids to the pool for a while each morning.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:42     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.


This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.


You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.



The mother and father have agreed to raise the children Jewish. They are Jewish, full stop. regardless of what idiotic ideas the grandparents have.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:41     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
When I was little I got taken to Sunday school for the first time. Around 6. The teacher talked about how people who did not believe in Jesus were going to hell and I started crying because I was going to hell. She then took me out and made me pray to accept Jesus and then told me I was no longer going to hell. It was very traumatizing for a little kid.

All the posters here criticizing you do not understand this is a deliberate attempt to undermine you and your husband's decisions to raise your child Jewish and could potentially expose them to a very denigrating and traumatizing environment for someone who is not ready and very young. Also incredibly insensitive to the history of Judaism. Sorry OP, you have to scrap your plans and not send your children to their grandparents. I would be enraged if my MIL did that.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:40     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.


This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.


You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.


Which half is it, the top half or the bottom half? Or is it the left half or the right half? No, the children's family is Jewish. There is no gray area here.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:37     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:I think there is a basic misunderstanding among many PPs where they assume it is okay to expose a Jewish child to an evangelical environment. Proselytizing is extremely offensive to Jews. Jews have spent centuries being forced to convert under the threat of torture and any attempt to coerce Jews to worship Jesus is considered repugnant. It is not a matter of exposing the kids to a different faith, it is clearly an attempt to convert them. It is also not the same as a Christian kid going to a Jewish camp because Jews don't proselytize. This is just so highly offensive of the MIL to do this.


IMO it can be extremely offensive to anyone. What you do behind closed doors is one thing. I don't need any of that in my face. Neither do my kids.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:35     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.


This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.


You mean according to the mother and her religion. Thats where it ends. Don't you see? It is not so black and white to others. Despite the mothers ideas and faith, the children's family is half Christian.

Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:34     Subject: Re:MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.


But there must be something that attracted Op to her husband since he isn't Jewish. I still think that if being Jewish was so important than she should have married a Jewish guy. Period. But, like it or not, the children's father's family are Christian so wouldn't be nice if they learned about their heritage and history? Seriously, if one week could undo your Jewish kids maybe their faith isn't so strong.

Lastly, if one can be black and white or white and Asian why can't someone acknowledge the religious side? Ie Jewish and Catholic? This is an honest question and yes, I know about Jewishness passing through the Mother. I'm not saying don't raise your kids Jewish, I'm saying what's wrong with understanding all your family history.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:33     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
OP could offer to pay for an alternate day camp if there's one available. If the MIL was just trying to find cheap childcare for part of the week.
Anonymous
Post 07/31/2016 19:32     Subject: MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Where does DH stand in this debate, OP?

Also, I get that Judiasm passes through the mother, but I'd be more sympathetic if you had titled your post OUR children and not MY children. In a mixed religion family, it is fair for both spouses to want kids to understand something of their religious identity. Even if they are being "raised" in one religion.


This is such nonsense and so is the comment by the PP who said the children are half Christian. It's not a mixed religion family. The children are JEWISH.


Half the family is christian.

They all worship the same god.

No big deal.

It wouldnt bother me if it was DD going to another religion camp. It's just a few hours. Geez.


No, half the family is not Christian. The mom is Jewish, the kids (plural) is Jewish, and the dad is of an indeterminate religious standing (perhaps he identifies and Christian perhaps he does not - OP doesn't say). He is raising his children to be Jewish. The family is Jewish. The inlaws do not get any say in this, regardless of their own religious beliefs.