Anonymous wrote:OP here,

I thank you for your responses. Not looking for validation or a pat on my back. But thanks for the thought!!

Hijab was mentioned in the Quran, and for those that would like to think otherwise, it's your choice. Hence, why I said in the first place I'm not going to start this conversation. I'm not here to convince anyone to convert or believe in Hijab.

OK OP, why don't you give us the passage in question, in the translation of your choice. Several of us have read this passage and disagree with you. It's ludicrous to keep parroting "it's in there but I refuse to discuss it."

OP here,

I thank you for your responses. Not looking for validation or a pat on my back. But thanks for the thought!!

Hijab was mentioned in the Quran, and for those that would like to think otherwise, it's your choice. Hence, why I said in the first place I'm not going to start this conversation. I'm not here to convince anyone to convert or believe in Hijab.

You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

I feel sorry for them. Around age 16 in the US, those girls get broken in to that men come first, and they better obey. Its just sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I started wearing the hijab few years ago, and I was happy and very much satisfied with my decision. I never felt the scarf would hinder anything in my life or make me a subject to discrimination...but lately with all what's going on in the world with ISIS and the heated media against Muslims makes me angry because my religion got hijacked. I have to admit that I'm becoming way more sensitive to my surrounding now...there are times I get dirty looks here and there or sometimes people assume that I'm dumb or less educated...it bothers me.

Those of you wearing the scarf, what are your thoughts? Have you had any bad experience lately?

Those of you who are non Muslims, what are your thoughts when you see a woman wearing the scarf? Are you scared of Muslims?

I think nothing of women in headscarves. They get a smile from me just like any other person would.

What breaks my heart though are the poor women who are forced into or terrified into by some outdated, archaic, dark ages, anri woman world veiw to wealre those horrible, head totoe to finger, heavy, black burkas with their face covered, ESPECIALLY when it is a raging hot day like today and ESPECIALLY when the man they are shuffling behind is wearing weather appropriate clothing.

This is America for goodness sakes, where we fight over glass ceilings and the right for women to be Navy Seals, and where our daughters are more likely to earn a college degree than our sons, and yet we have women in our country who are forced to cover themselves entirely with yards of heavy black fabric, faces included, because the men in their world have decided that it is a gave sin for them to ever feel the sun on their skin or a cool breeze on their faces.

Those are an atrocity and a violation of human rights, especially in a country like the US where we fight so hard for women's rights.

This just kills me -- he is wearing shorts, a tee shirt and flipflops, while she is bundled up like a sofa on a moving truck.

Anonymous wrote:NP here who has been following this thread but hasn't commented yet.

OP, I don't see how you can write "the intent of my post was not to discuss whether hijab was mentioned in the Quran."

It wasn't, as you know. Hijab/niqab are not mentioned in the Quran.

That is unavoidably going to color the views that you asked for. A natural extension of this is to ask why, then, women do wear hijab or niqab. It seems hypocritical to fein surprise, as you're doing, that many attribute the veil to patriarchal cultures or to family oppression, and ask why you can't demonstrate modesty without it. You can't close your eyes to this long-standing, global debate about the veil.

PP again. You say your parents and DH didn't force you. But you still listened to a bunch of turbans from very patriarchal cultures. I'm guessing you aren't looking for a pat on the back from DCUM--in your first post you basically acknowledged you knew the responses you were going to get here (and nobody even mentioned terrorism and the whole awful Trump line). Were you thinking that victimhood is an easy way to validate your decision?

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

NP here who has been following this thread but hasn't commented yet.

OP, I don't see how you can write "the intent of my post was not to discuss whether hijab was mentioned in the Quran."

It wasn't, as you know. Hijab/niqab are not mentioned in the Quran.

That is unavoidably going to color the views that you asked for. A natural extension of this is to ask why, then, women do wear hijab or niqab. It seems hypocritical to fein surprise, as you're doing, that many attribute the veil to patriarchal cultures or to family oppression, and ask why you can't demonstrate modesty without it. You can't close your eyes to this long-standing, global debate about the veil.

Anonymous wrote:I go out of my way to be nice to women wearing the hijab, but I also view it as rather anti-feminist, the same way I view orthodox women who cover their hair, Mennonite women who wear those little white bonnets, or catholic women who continue to wear veils at mass. I wouldn't hire any of those women to care for my children, for instance, as I would assume they do not share my values respecting women's rights I would hire them for a job where those particular values don't matter, however.

Seriously? You are quite judgemental. Don't you think so? You are assuming that every woman of faith is anti-feminist? What is feminism to you? Please help me understand it. Because last I checked, I thought it had nothing to do with the way women dress up.

OP here, and I must say I'm quite disgusted by some comments.

the intent of this post was not about arguing whether hijab is mentioned in Quran or not... And for those thinking of Hijabis as oppressed women, I beg you to get to know a Muslim on a personal level and find out for yourself.

I was born into a Muslim family, quite liberal honestly ...I started wearing the scarf because of personal and religious beliefs...I'm sorry to disappoint you but neither my father nor my DH had anything to do With my decision. In fact, I would have felt oppressed if DH were to be against my decision.

Someone asked how I feel when I see women not covered and wearing revealing clothes: my answer is I don't think about it. I grew up not wearing a scarf...and I still have family members not wearing it...so it doesn't matter to me...just because I'm fully covered, I don't except everybody to be the same.

I go out of my way to be nice to women wearing the hijab, but I also view it as rather anti-feminist, the same way I view orthodox women who cover their hair, Mennonite women who wear those little white bonnets, or catholic women who continue to wear veils at mass. I wouldn't hire any of those women to care for my children, for instance, as I would assume they do not share my values respecting women's rights I would hire them for a job where those particular values don't matter, however.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hijabs doesn't bother me.

Niqabs actually really bother me. I feel that its an aggressive political statement in some ways seeing as its quite extreme to hide your face in that way.

After all as a society, we place a lot of value in facial expressions and non-verbal cues. I would not feel especially encouraged to start a conversation with someone in a niqab. Its sort of a Do Not Disturb sign.

+1. The niqab is a patriarchal cultural relic turned into a political statement. Some dispute that the Quran requires a woman to cover her hair.

Don't be ridiculous. It's a cultural relic for sure, but that culture is stemmed in class, not patriarchy. Rich urban married women used to cover their faces to protect them from the sun and most importantly, show that they don't have to work. Women working the fields never cover their faces. You pretty much couldn't work with your face covered, and upperclass women wore them to show they didn't have to.

This is incorrect, though nicely spun.

Full on niqab and burka came about as a necessity to prevent wives and women from being stolen. It was (and still is in in some parts) common practice in the Islamic world for the Caliphs and Emirs to steal the wives of others whenever and however wanted. How do you think those harems got so filled with hundreds of women? Did they apply for the position? LOL.

The triple talaq aided in this since it was easy to force or torture the husband into a super simple divorce if necessary.

What an idiot. Where do you get your information from, A Thousand and One Nights?

First, no, the niqab did not come about to prevent wife-stealing. Get into your thick head that you cannot kidnap and enslave other Muslims. So while slavery and human trade, primarily in women, was commonplace in the Islamic world, none of these women were Muslim as you cannot enslave other Muslims.

Second, harems were filled with non-Muslim women captured during wars. The triple talaq provision does not apply to prisoners of war because the act of capture invalidates marriage, and because only Muslims divorce via talaq. Captured women were non-Muslim, and their divorce practices were different.

Finally, triple talaq is a non-Muslim illusion since a single talaq suffices for divorce. There is no need for a triple utterance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't really care what grown women do with their clothes, but I get really pissed off when I see little girls (8 or 10 or 12) in a head covering, jeans and a long sleeve knit shirt in July at someplace like Six Flags. It's brutally hot out. Putting a kid in those kinds of clothes is cruel.

Do you feel the same way if you see conservative Jewish kids covered up at amusement parks? I've seen girls and boys at Hersheypark in August with long sleeves, long skirts or pants, and fully covered.

Doesn't bother me but I kind of want to buy them an extra large iced tea.

I feel for them but not the same way I feel for those in hijabs/niquabs. Their own people are not killing them or lashing them in other countries for not covering.

I dunno, tourists in t-shirts and shorts who wander into Jerusalem's Orthodox neighborhoods report high levels of harassment.

Is there the clothing police that will jail you if you're not dressed to their liking? Did they get sentenced to death for their clothes? Is it a state sanctioned crime?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hijabs doesn't bother me.

Niqabs actually really bother me. I feel that its an aggressive political statement in some ways seeing as its quite extreme to hide your face in that way.

After all as a society, we place a lot of value in facial expressions and non-verbal cues. I would not feel especially encouraged to start a conversation with someone in a niqab. Its sort of a Do Not Disturb sign.

+1. The niqab is a patriarchal cultural relic turned into a political statement. Some dispute that the Quran requires a woman to cover her hair.

Don't be ridiculous. It's a cultural relic for sure, but that culture is stemmed in class, not patriarchy. Rich urban married women used to cover their faces to protect them from the sun and most importantly, show that they don't have to work. Women working the fields never cover their faces. You pretty much couldn't work with your face covered, and upperclass women wore them to show they didn't have to.

This is incorrect, though nicely spun.

Full on niqab and burka came about as a necessity to prevent wives and women from being stolen. It was (and still is in in some parts) common practice in the Islamic world for the Caliphs and Emirs to steal the wives of others whenever and however wanted. How do you think those harems got so filled with hundreds of women? Did they apply for the position? LOL.

The triple talaq aided in this since it was easy to force or torture the husband into a super simple divorce if necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forty pages of comments on the hijab:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/520851.page

Personally I don't like it because I believe the vast majority of those who do believe it is required by Islam--my view is it is not.

So my prejudice on seeing a woman wearing a hijab is that she is doing so because: 1) she believes in a fundamentalist version of Islam that allows for no critical thinking, b) her family has forced her to do, c) she comes from a country where it is required or d) she wears it so her family will not be less suspicious that she is doing something she shouldn't. There are a couple of other fringe reasons, like wearing it as a sign of Muslim pride--that is, more as identifier as belonging to a group from which others are excluded.

I could see the hair accessory point of view, but only if sometimes she didn't cover her hair--otherwise we are back to one of the above.

I can't fathom, why women in today's day and age and in a free country like the US, would wear a headscarf or a burka. When I see a woman wearing any of these, the first emotion is sadness. : More so if they are wearing it out of their own free will. Like someone's holding an invisible gun to your head. Do this or else.. Even in a free country. Whoever said hijab is a hair accessory.. You got to be kidding. No comparison to a hijab and Sophia Lirens scarf there. None. Just saying.
Not saying wear skimpy clothes, but celebrate and enjoy who you are, hair, face, arms, legs.. All of you. Why the need to cover or identify yourself differently always? I wear clothes from my culture many times but I would never let myself be tied down to that.. Know what I mean? I am much more than a religion or a symbol.

You don't own other women's bodies and you have no right to dictate how much of their bodies they should display to please you.

Nor do the men who impose these dark ages requirements on women in the name of religion.

You are no different from these men - so glad you agree.

I find it weird and make assumptions when I see them. I am noticing more and more of them in MoCo. However I feel the same way about religious Jews who wear wigs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forty pages of comments on the hijab:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/520851.page

Personally I don't like it because I believe the vast majority of those who do believe it is required by Islam--my view is it is not.

So my prejudice on seeing a woman wearing a hijab is that she is doing so because: 1) she believes in a fundamentalist version of Islam that allows for no critical thinking, b) her family has forced her to do, c) she comes from a country where it is required or d) she wears it so her family will not be less suspicious that she is doing something she shouldn't. There are a couple of other fringe reasons, like wearing it as a sign of Muslim pride--that is, more as identifier as belonging to a group from which others are excluded.

I could see the hair accessory point of view, but only if sometimes she didn't cover her hair--otherwise we are back to one of the above.

I can't fathom, why women in today's day and age and in a free country like the US, would wear a headscarf or a burka. When I see a woman wearing any of these, the first emotion is sadness. : More so if they are wearing it out of their own free will. Like someone's holding an invisible gun to your head. Do this or else.. Even in a free country. Whoever said hijab is a hair accessory.. You got to be kidding. No comparison to a hijab and Sophia Lirens scarf there. None. Just saying.
Not saying wear skimpy clothes, but celebrate and enjoy who you are, hair, face, arms, legs.. All of you. Why the need to cover or identify yourself differently always? I wear clothes from my culture many times but I would never let myself be tied down to that.. Know what I mean? I am much more than a religion or a symbol.

You don't own other women's bodies and you have no right to dictate how much of their bodies they should display to please you.

Nor do the men who impose these dark ages requirements on women in the name of religion.