Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's because people don't "count" having a nanny, and a $800k house, and outsourcing as their luxuries.

The $600k poster was a really good example of that, how she explained away "well we have to have a nanny since our work hours are so long and we don't have family" and justifies the student loan at $1k "because one of us is a lawyer."

Not realizing that some people would HAVE to move close to family, not a choice to have a nanny, or put their child in a high ratio daycare that is cheap but has extended hours and add an hour to their daily commute to get there, or even be up to date on their student loans without having a parent bail them out, get on a deferred payment plan, etc.

And having 2 cars instead of getting a small condo, kids share a room, and take metro.

They look at their money AFTER doing all those things.

That's the problem.

I strongly agree with this post. The people complaining about being poor on six figure incomes are confused about why they're not rolling in cash after paying expensive mortgage (most poor people don't own houses), paying for their expensive childcare (most poor people do not pay $2k+ month in childcare), paying off their grad/law/med school student loans (most poor people do not go to grad/law/medical school), and paying their grocery bills at Whole Foods.

I also find the "$300k is middle class" argument disingenuous because posters who say "owning a home, going to college, taking vacations, etc. are middle class activities" often fail to recognize that owning a $700,000 house is not middle class, going to Yale is not middle class, and flying 4 people to Disney for a week is not middle class.

I sympathize with the rich people problems. It would be nice if we all had enough money to pay for the things that we want. But there's a world of difference between choosing which utility bill to pay this month and choosing whether to go to Disney this summer or this winter.

WTF? That is certainly middle class now and was middle class 30 years ago. My parents were certainly middle class and we went to Disney a few times. They owned a nice house (no mansion, but no dump), and sent two kids off to private universities (one Ivy). We had some student loans but mostly paid for by my parents.

Yeah, that's not middle class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's because people don't "count" having a nanny, and a $800k house, and outsourcing as their luxuries.

The $600k poster was a really good example of that, how she explained away "well we have to have a nanny since our work hours are so long and we don't have family" and justifies the student loan at $1k "because one of us is a lawyer."

Not realizing that some people would HAVE to move close to family, not a choice to have a nanny, or put their child in a high ratio daycare that is cheap but has extended hours and add an hour to their daily commute to get there, or even be up to date on their student loans without having a parent bail them out, get on a deferred payment plan, etc.

And having 2 cars instead of getting a small condo, kids share a room, and take metro.

They look at their money AFTER doing all those things.

That's the problem.

I strongly agree with this post. The people complaining about being poor on six figure incomes are confused about why they're not rolling in cash after paying expensive mortgage (most poor people don't own houses), paying for their expensive childcare (most poor people do not pay $2k+ month in childcare), paying off their grad/law/med school student loans (most poor people do not go to grad/law/medical school), and paying their grocery bills at Whole Foods.

I also find the "$300k is middle class" argument disingenuous because posters who say "owning a home, going to college, taking vacations, etc. are middle class activities" often fail to recognize that owning a $700,000 house is not middle class, going to Yale is not middle class, and flying 4 people to Disney for a week is not middle class.

I sympathize with the rich people problems. It would be nice if we all had enough money to pay for the things that we want. But there's a world of difference between choosing which utility bill to pay this month and choosing whether to go to Disney this summer or this winter.

WTF? That is certainly middle class now and was middle class 30 years ago. My parents were certainly middle class and we went to Disney a few times. They owned a nice house (no mansion, but no dump), and sent two kids off to private universities (one Ivy). We had some student loans but mostly paid for by my parents.

Yeah, going to Disney is totes middle class.

A humbling day spent volunteering around people or animals in need is long due, but will probably not occur.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's because people don't "count" having a nanny, and a $800k house, and outsourcing as their luxuries.

The $600k poster was a really good example of that, how she explained away "well we have to have a nanny since our work hours are so long and we don't have family" and justifies the student loan at $1k "because one of us is a lawyer."

Not realizing that some people would HAVE to move close to family, not a choice to have a nanny, or put their child in a high ratio daycare that is cheap but has extended hours and add an hour to their daily commute to get there, or even be up to date on their student loans without having a parent bail them out, get on a deferred payment plan, etc.

And having 2 cars instead of getting a small condo, kids share a room, and take metro.

They look at their money AFTER doing all those things.

That's the problem.

I strongly agree with this post. The people complaining about being poor on six figure incomes are confused about why they're not rolling in cash after paying expensive mortgage (most poor people don't own houses), paying for their expensive childcare (most poor people do not pay $2k+ month in childcare), paying off their grad/law/med school student loans (most poor people do not go to grad/law/medical school), and paying their grocery bills at Whole Foods.

I also find the "$300k is middle class" argument disingenuous because posters who say "owning a home, going to college, taking vacations, etc. are middle class activities" often fail to recognize that owning a $700,000 house is not middle class, going to Yale is not middle class, and flying 4 people to Disney for a week is not middle class.

I sympathize with the rich people problems. It would be nice if we all had enough money to pay for the things that we want. But there's a world of difference between choosing which utility bill to pay this month and choosing whether to go to Disney this summer or this winter.

WTF? That is certainly middle class now and was middle class 30 years ago. My parents were certainly middle class and we went to Disney a few times. They owned a nice house (no mansion, but no dump), and sent two kids off to private universities (one Ivy). We had some student loans but mostly paid for by my parents.

What are they missing? Knowing what it's like to actually be poor.

The way you grew up can seriously effect the way you view money. I grew up in the exurbs of Fairfax County, and we were "house poor" for much of my childhood. My parents bought a $250k 4 bed/3 bath SFH when my dad was making $150k without a college degree and my mom had been a SAHM for five years. My dad lost his job when telecom went bust, and spent several years without being able to find a job. My mom went back to work as a teacher, but we still relied on assistance from my grandparents to cover some of the mortgage, and $ from our church's "Pastor's discretionary fund" for utilities. We had always volunteered at the local food bank as a family, and we ended up getting food from there a lot.

I knew not to ask my parents for anything that cost money, I started babysitting at age 12 so I could buy myself shoes that fit and winter coats, afford field trip fees, and buy cup o' noodles at school for lunch. I worked a ton---usually two weekday nights, Friday and Saturday night, and usually one weekend day time shift, so I was often the family member with the most disposable income. I remember saving for months to buy my mom a mini fridge for her classroom for Christmas, so she didn't have to spend half her 20-minute lunch break walking to/from the teacher's lounge across the school from her classroom. My dad picked up shifts as a courier, and for his birthday that year I paid to fix the broken stereo in his car.

I remember waking up with a growling stomach, and eating leftover sprinkles because that's all there was in the kitchen.

I feel so lucky that DH and I make 'good money'---our combined HHI is 70k---and that I never have to worry if I'm going to be able to afford to eat. I don't do the math in my head to see if we can afford a doctor or ER visit if I'm sick. I spent three days in agonizing pain as a teenager trying to pass a kidney stone on my own because I couldn't afford the ER bill.

The poster who said 'people who work harder than average feel like they deserve more $ than average'---you know who works hard? Day laborers. House cleaners. Retail employees. But they don't deserve a living wage, according to DCUM. People who sit in a heated and air conditioned office think they are more deserving of a 'nice life' than people who work two or more physically demanding, soul crushing jobs just to keep a roof over their head.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving.”—ACTS 20:35.

“Do not wear yourself out to gain wealth.”—Proverbs 23:4.

“Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things.”—Hebrews 13:5.

“The one trusting in his riches will fall.”—Proverbs 11:28.

“Those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires.”—1 TIMOTHY 6:9.

“Guard against every sort of greed, because even when a person has an abundance, his life does not result from the things he possesses.”—LUKE 12:15.

No one gives a shit about fairytales from cult's bestselling work of fiction.

"The tongue of the wise makes good use of knowledge, but the mouth of the stupid blurts out foolishness." — PROVERBS 15:2

Anonymous wrote:When DH and I were both working, our HHI was 300K, and we had outsourced house cleaning,yard work and child care. Now, I SAH, my DH makes 300K and we still have cleaning and yardwork help. My entire family feels that our quality of life is better now. We have leisure time and we actually pursue hobbies and activities that interest us. The constant rat race is gone. I feel 300K is a very high HHI for our family. We live in a large SFH with all comforts in an inexpensive suburban area, and our kids go to magnet schools. So we are not being crushed by absurd mortgage or the cost of private schools. We did not have college debt and we are making sure that our kids do not incur debts. So, if you are not trying to keep up with the Joneses, then 300K is a lot of money and you can have savings and a good lifestyle without being frugal.

how 0ld are you guys?

Anonymous wrote:comparisons and expectations, of course.

they're not poor, but they don't have everything they want or expect. we have a hhi of around 200k, usually plus an annual bonus, debt of around 400k (mostly mortgage and some remaining student loans) and I would never be so clueless as to call myself "poor". I am not.

Sometimes I struggle, however. with two incomes and kids, time is the most precious resource of all and its one of those things you can't really buy, at least not directly. so, we struggle to piece together bits of time and make tradeoffs that I never really would have expected at my income level. (outsource house cleaning instead of having FIOS; never buy coffee or lunch so that I have $100 or so to stick in a college account every month; get groceries delivered, but stop buying organic or name brand; cancel beach house this summer so that we can get the AC fixed; keep my 6yo phone with the busted screen because buying a new one is crazy expensive; keep the shitty 30-yo washer/dryer that smells a bit and get repaired once/year because we had to get the car fixed; get Christmas presents for the kids, not for each other; kids live in hand-me-downs from their cousins; we're going to need a new car sometime in the next few years and I'm not sure what budget that is coming out of yet.) The consequences for me of such tradeoffs are obviously minor. No one's going without healthcare or food or housing. So, no, people like me should never describe themselves as "poor." Doesn't mean we never get to complain.

Complain all you want about the tradeoffs you've made and the things that you feel you lack. I'm not about to begrudge people feeling disappointed about not having things that they want. However, when your complaints come in the form of saying that you "feel poor" at those salaries, you lose credibility.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's because people don't "count" having a nanny, and a $800k house, and outsourcing as their luxuries.

The $600k poster was a really good example of that, how she explained away "well we have to have a nanny since our work hours are so long and we don't have family" and justifies the student loan at $1k "because one of us is a lawyer."

Not realizing that some people would HAVE to move close to family, not a choice to have a nanny, or put their child in a high ratio daycare that is cheap but has extended hours and add an hour to their daily commute to get there, or even be up to date on their student loans without having a parent bail them out, get on a deferred payment plan, etc.

And having 2 cars instead of getting a small condo, kids share a room, and take metro.

They look at their money AFTER doing all those things.

That's the problem.

I strongly agree with this post. The people complaining about being poor on six figure incomes are confused about why they're not rolling in cash after paying expensive mortgage (most poor people don't own houses), paying for their expensive childcare (most poor people do not pay $2k+ month in childcare), paying off their grad/law/med school student loans (most poor people do not go to grad/law/medical school), and paying their grocery bills at Whole Foods.

I also find the "$300k is middle class" argument disingenuous because posters who say "owning a home, going to college, taking vacations, etc. are middle class activities" often fail to recognize that owning a $700,000 house is not middle class, going to Yale is not middle class, and flying 4 people to Disney for a week is not middle class.

I sympathize with the rich people problems. It would be nice if we all had enough money to pay for the things that we want. But there's a world of difference between choosing which utility bill to pay this month and choosing whether to go to Disney this summer or this winter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“There is more happiness in giving than there is in receiving.”—ACTS 20:35.

“Do not wear yourself out to gain wealth.”—Proverbs 23:4.

“Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things.”—Hebrews 13:5.

“The one trusting in his riches will fall.”—Proverbs 11:28.

“Those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires.”—1 TIMOTHY 6:9.

“Guard against every sort of greed, because even when a person has an abundance, his life does not result from the things he possesses.”—LUKE 12:15.

No one gives a shit about fairytales from cult's bestselling work of fiction.

comparisons and expectations, of course.

they're not poor, but they don't have everything they want or expect. we have a hhi of around 200k, usually plus an annual bonus, debt of around 400k (mostly mortgage and some remaining student loans) and I would never be so clueless as to call myself "poor". I am not.

Sometimes I struggle, however. with two incomes and kids, time is the most precious resource of all and its one of those things you can't really buy, at least not directly. so, we struggle to piece together bits of time and make tradeoffs that I never really would have expected at my income level. (outsource house cleaning instead of having FIOS; never buy coffee or lunch so that I have $100 or so to stick in a college account every month; get groceries delivered, but stop buying organic or name brand; cancel beach house this summer so that we can get the AC fixed; keep my 6yo phone with the busted screen because buying a new one is crazy expensive; keep the shitty 30-yo washer/dryer that smells a bit and get repaired once/year because we had to get the car fixed; get Christmas presents for the kids, not for each other; kids live in hand-me-downs from their cousins; we're going to need a new car sometime in the next few years and I'm not sure what budget that is coming out of yet.) The consequences for me of such tradeoffs are obviously minor. No one's going without healthcare or food or housing. So, no, people like me should never describe themselves as "poor." Doesn't mean we never get to complain.

Anonymous wrote:Because these people are spending 75 percent of their 300k plus salary on childcare, taxes and housing.

I think this says it all.

Anonymous wrote:If you are from the north and move to dc you are happy, from elsewhere not so

I'm previous NYC poster. I always think everything is so cheap down here. I went to NYC last week with the kids. We hung out at our friends' apartments. Kids played soccer in their shared hallways. My friend was saying her son didn't know how to ride a bike yet because they couldn't take him to Central Park to learn frequently enough. I was grateful for our cul de sac where my boys ride bikes with ease.

We came back to go to multiple friend bbq and backyard fireworks. We like our life here.

I'm perplexed about the status of private schools.
Private schools (except for the elite ones like Exter or Hotchkiss) were usually filled with the quirky kids whose parents thought couldn't handle it in public.