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Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Because DC's white population is very highly represented by highly educated people, whereas MA, MD, VA, CT are more diverse in terms of industry/SES. More whites in those states are blue collar or rural- so, even if they're not technically "in poverty" there is still a big difference in outcomes.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Wow. That is surprising. I knew about the NAEP data but always assumed that DC's white students performed higher due to the relative lack of children living in poverty compared to other jurisdictions.

One difference not reflected in the KFF data is that DC has very few white kids even close to poverty. A white family that makes $40,000 a year is much less common in DC than CT, VA, or MD. And I'd guess that a higher percentage of white kids in DC have household incomes of $400,000 than they do in the other states.

Good point. I think people look at poverty vs. no poverty which is helpful to an extent but there's a wide range of socioeconomic statuses in the non-poverty category that can explain differences - I.e. a family where both parents work in manufacturing or something, or in low level office jobs, or something, both bringing in $35K, vs. a family where both parents work at the World Bank or are lawyers or highly educated non-profit workers, etc. Both technically fall into the "non-poverty" category, but obviously the children of the latter are going to perform much better than the former.

DC'a white population not only falls almost into the "non-poverty" category, it also has a very very high percentage of people in the World Bank/lawyers/non-profit highly educated category. There are very few of the blue collar/barely white collar (but not in poverty) folks in DC like there are in VA, MD, and MA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Wow. That is surprising. I knew about the NAEP data but always assumed that DC's white students performed higher due to the relative lack of children living in poverty compared to other jurisdictions.

One difference not reflected in the KFF data is that DC has very few white kids even close to poverty. A white family that makes $40,000 a year is much less common in DC than CT, VA, or MD. And I'd guess that a higher percentage of white kids in DC have household incomes of $400,000 than they do in the other states.

We have a friend who bailed on the Hill a couple years ago over schools issues. Her child has moved onto an AAP center in Fairfax, while ours, who is the same age, is at Brent. I'm not convinced that her child learns more than mine a given week. She's far from the Smithsonians now, while we walk down most weekends. Our child takes seriously good music and art classes a 5-minute walk from our house, and visit the the local library across the street almost every day. She has to drive her kid everywhere, or put him on a school bus. My kids' classmates have parents who are World Bank economists, design Mars rovers for NASA, serve as senior diplomats and military officers, and drive legislative battles in the Senate.

I'm not buying that Fairfax offers young families more overall, at least at the elementary school level.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Again, we are comparing cities to states. DC's stats are artificially inflated because of that. Also, I'd be shocked if DC's white childhood poverty rates were the same as MD overall. DC white poverty likely includes a big share of 20 something organizers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Wow. That is surprising. I knew about the NAEP data but always assumed that DC's white students performed higher due to the relative lack of children living in poverty compared to other jurisdictions.

Anonymous wrote:This is why DC can't have test in gifted programs especially in the early grades. They would skew white. I know my DD will be ok anywhere but at some point we will leave our mediocre IB to get away from the behavioral problems associated with the low income, under achieving kids.

That's bullshit dog-in-the-manger reasoning. DCPS could design a fair, integrated gifted program. Of course that would mean not all snowflakes would be guaranteed admission.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

And Maryland's white poverty rate is lower than DC's. As is Connecticut's. Virginia's is just a point higher. So how does lack of poor white kids explain DC's #1 rank, again?

Anonymous wrote:Ready for some TRUTH

In Fairfax you get AAP where your special snowflake can be surrounded by special snowflakes which creates.... a blizzard lol love ya DCUM

Monto Co magnets = same thing
Prince Georges magnets = smae thing
DC charters = same thing
Arlington special schools = same thing

Average DCUMer My special snowflake (white, black, hispanic, asian doesn't matter) can't be around poor low SES or FARMS people or they will melt so I will either go private or one of the options above

Signed,

upper middle class income kid
went to a very average school
public university
and is now happy, healthy, and making enough by DCUM standards

I went to a magnet. The school is still considered the best in its state, and is in the top 40-50 nationwide. It was full of very smart children, and actually very economically and culturally diverse. The academics... weren't great. A third of my graduating class went to ivies. Decades later, we all, ivy or not, have some degree of success, but nothing earth shattering. We had a lot of programs that sounded great on paper, but weren't executed very well. Like Latin instruction. Political science classes. A physics lab. Nearly every day we were told we were excellent, bright, destined for greatness.

In retrospect, hearing how bright we were didn't help us. Nor did all the AP classes we all took before going to colleges who mostly didn't honor them for distribution requirements anyway.

Our child tested into a gifted school a lot like the one I attended, in yet another state. But the commute was insane for a five year old, and so we didn't send them. When we moved here, we made the choice again not to move to Moco or Fairfax, but to stay in DC proper. Sometimes I second guess that, and sometimes I don't. But I'm not convinced that a Moco or Fairfax AAP would be so different from my own school experience: fantastic reputation, high-scoring cohort, lots of pressure to measure success by HYP admission... and indifferent, somewhat rote academics.

I'd love to hear from people with actual experience, about the actual experience.

Ready for some TRUTH

In Fairfax you get AAP where your special snowflake can be surrounded by special snowflakes which creates.... a blizzard lol love ya DCUM

Monto Co magnets = same thing
Prince Georges magnets = smae thing
DC charters = same thing
Arlington special schools = same thing

Average DCUMer My special snowflake (white, black, hispanic, asian doesn't matter) can't be around poor low SES or FARMS people or they will melt so I will either go private or one of the options above

Signed,

upper middle class income kid
went to a very average school
public university
and is now happy, healthy, and making enough by DCUM standards

I have a relative who teaches in a AAP center in FCPS. The things his students are learning blows me away. I get it. I live on the Hill and desperately want to stay. I want to send my kid to DCPS and have it all be ok. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that my child is going to get the same level of education in DCPS as in a rich suburban school just because she happens to be white. And that's just in elementary school - not even addressing the cluster-f the middle and high school situation is east of the park.

Except you still haven't said WHAT those things are. Except they blow you away. Maybe you are made out of milkweed and dandelion fluff, and could be blown away quite easiy. Give specifics, or your words have no weight at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

Except that 1.) you are comparing an entire state to a city and 2.) the percentage of white poverty isn't that much different between DC and MA. Of course MA is higher (and total # higher) but percentage wise they aren't that far off.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC performs better not just by a few points, pretty significant gap between DC and MA (18 points).

Again, there are poor white kids in MA. There are no poor white kids in DC. DC is unique in that way.

Spot on.

AAP = advanced academic center. They test everyone and students are placed there according to ability in elementary school.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wow. So why are people always claiming that MoCo and N. Arlington are so much better? Though true those are statewide scores...can we see a county breakdown

White kids in DC are overwhelmingly from wealthy educated families. They will do well anywhere. It's teaching the rest of the kids that shows how strong a school system is. Also standardized tests aren't everything. Those white kids in DC may be passing at a higher rate than their counterparts (in everywhere else in the US where there are middle class and poor white kids) but that doesn't mean they are better off in dcps.

blah blah blah blah.

These are important data to refute the very specific group of law firm-type parents who insist that their progeny need to be educated in Bannockburn, Bradley Hills, Somerset, Pyle, Key Science Focus, Williamsburg MS, etc. This data shows that those children do not, in fact, need to flee the District with their white, highly educated parents because, schools.

(this is a different analysis than, say, "name the middle school in the entire region with the best math department.")

I guess if all you care about is whether your kid can do well on a standardized test then you're correct. And I'm sure there are some schools in DC that hold up well to schools in the burbs. But if you really think that your kid is going to get the same level of education at, for example, Brent as your kid would get in Somerset or Falls Church City, you're crazy. Teachers can do so much more with a class made up entirely of wealthy suburban kids than they can with a class made up of some wealthy kids and some really poor kids.

That may be so but the kid who goes to Brent learns how not to be afraid of people who are different from him/her racially and in class background. That is the gift I gave my kid by sending her to DCPS as opposed to raising her in a white wealthy enclave like the one I grew up in.

Hear hear. Also, specifically. I would like to know. What would my child be learning in falls Church that is so special? Please be specific. We get this myth of the amazing burb school fed to us over and over again, and I'm not really sure what it means. So please. Enlighten me. Does their orchestra win awards? Do they have a photography program? Is there daily mandarin? College-level seminar classes in critical theory? What?

I have a relative who teaches in a AAP center in FCPS. The things his students are learning blows me away. I get it. I live on the Hill and desperately want to stay. I want to send my kid to DCPS and have it all be ok. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that my child is going to get the same level of education in DCPS as in a rich suburban school just because she happens to be white. And that's just in elementary school - not even addressing the cluster-f the middle and high school situation is east of the park.

What is an AAP center? What grade(s)? And what specifically are the students learning that blow you away (and in which subjects)? Not doubting you at all, just curious?

One thing is for sure, my dc's field trips blow away most kids' field trips who do not live in DC. Trips to the White House, the Monuments, the National Zoo, the Smithsonian museums, the US Capitol, Mount Vernon, shows at Kennedy and National Theater, Great Falls, etc. etc. I would guess this is not unusual for other dcps kids.