Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I encountered two members of the Arlington County Council this morning in my upper end North Arlington neighborhood. One was campaigning for the other. I wasn't aware about the affordable housing issue until I read this thread yesterday. I asked them what they thought about it. I have never seen two people try to get away from me so quickly. She thrust her campaign material at me and he said "we have a lot of ground to cover today." and off they went. Doesn't sound like it is something council wants to discuss

Haha, of course not. The way affordable housing works in Arlington is like this: there is a small group that is HIGHLY supportive of it. Think professional service providers, AH developers, and community activists like VOICE (the group that advocated converting public parks into AH complexes). They are highly informed on the AH issue, and personally benefit from it.

There is a much larger group that is reflexively sympathetic but have less information on AH and how much the County spends on it. This is the bulk of the Arlington Democratic base, who are the bulk of Arlington voters.

All the AH crowd has to do is not do anything to piss off these lower information voters. That means minimal information, general platitudes in press releases, and repeated claims that AH is about keeping Arlington teachers/firefighters/cops living in Arlington. It's not true, but it sounds good and is enough to keep AH funded.

There MIGHT be enough for a turn around today. People still remember VOICE's ridiculous proposal to build affordable housing on County parks, and the inevitable fight over the Virginia Hospital Center Complex between building schools vs AH there will get this in front of the voters in a real way.

Basically you are pitting working parents and educators against AH folks who's job is basically to raise funds for AH and whose livelihood depends on AH being advocated. No wonder they are so viscous. And I hear it's hard to switch jobs in non-profit world so they need these projects to happen.

Parents need to sign school wire petitions and show the county and board we are not happy with the this prioritization.

Anonymous wrote:So I encountered two members of the Arlington County Council this morning in my upper end North Arlington neighborhood. One was campaigning for the other. I wasn't aware about the affordable housing issue until I read this thread yesterday. I asked them what they thought about it. I have never seen two people try to get away from me so quickly. She thrust her campaign material at me and he said "we have a lot of ground to cover today." and off they went. Doesn't sound like it is something council wants to discuss

Haha, of course not. The way affordable housing works in Arlington is like this: there is a small group that is HIGHLY supportive of it. Think professional service providers, AH developers, and community activists like VOICE (the group that advocated converting public parks into AH complexes). They are highly informed on the AH issue, and personally benefit from it.

There is a much larger group that is reflexively sympathetic but have less information on AH and how much the County spends on it. This is the bulk of the Arlington Democratic base, who are the bulk of Arlington voters.

All the AH crowd has to do is not do anything to piss off these lower information voters. That means minimal information, general platitudes in press releases, and repeated claims that AH is about keeping Arlington teachers/firefighters/cops living in Arlington. It's not true, but it sounds good and is enough to keep AH funded.

There MIGHT be enough for a turn around today. People still remember VOICE's ridiculous proposal to build affordable housing on County parks, and the inevitable fight over the Virginia Hospital Center Complex between building schools vs AH there will get this in front of the voters in a real way.

Anonymous wrote:FTR not all housing being discussed by the County as "affordable" is "subsidized." Making developers allocated a certain number of units as "below market" is not the same thing as subsidizing.

The bulk of affordable housing in Arlington is in fact subsidized. What you are talking about is a handful of units in otherwise market rate complexes. And also, let's be honest here - the County still pays for this, just indirectly. It is standard practice to ask developers for contributions indirectly to the County purse in exchange for development, i.e. develop or build a nearby park, sponsor public art, etc. These developers aren't losing money on AH just for fun, and the County isn't getting a free lunch by nicely asking for AH set asides.

Again, more distortion. Affordable Housing in Arlington is in fact subsidized housing. The money doesn't come out of the goodness of developer's hearts.

This idea that everyone can just pick up and move is ludicrous to me. Look at all of the research showing that low income families spend 70% of their income on rent. A single missed paycheck equals a massive crisis. If you've never lived like this or known anyone who does then you are fortunate. I am fortunate and I am happy to share what I have with others who are less so.

The plan is to make almost 20% of Arlington's housing stock be subsidized by 2040. This is a tremendous up front cost. On top of that, that is an indefinite expense with the County on the hook for supporting 1 in 5 households that will require a disproportionate share of County resources.

My preference would be to substantially cut our spending on subsidizing housing, from ~10% of total non-school expenditures to a more reasonable, single figure amount. But I would still be fine with spending that same amount on CURRENT AH residents, instead of continually bringing in more people to then have to spend even more money on. It would be far better if we could use these expenditures to better help those AH residents who are already in Arlington, instead of spending more and more money on bringing in new people to subsidize.

So I encountered two members of the Arlington County Council this morning in my upper end North Arlington neighborhood. One was campaigning for the other. I wasn't aware about the affordable housing issue until I read this thread yesterday. I asked them what they thought about it. I have never seen two people try to get away from me so quickly. She thrust her campaign material at me and he said "we have a lot of ground to cover today." and off they went. Doesn't sound like it is something council wants to discuss

Anonymous wrote:FTR not all housing being discussed by the County as "affordable" is "subsidized." Making developers allocated a certain number of units as "below market" is not the same thing as subsidizing.

And I'm the PP who used the example of nurses and teachers as I have worked as both. I don't live in affordable housing partly bc I'm part of a dual income household and also because nursing has been an upwardly mobile field for me. But the example could extend to nursing aides, EMTs, etc etc. That said it does not bother me in the slightest that much of the AH in Arlington goes to people working in other professions. I actually live very close to a complex of AH and know that the families who live there are working hard and trying to secure a future for their kids. This is the American Dream.

This idea that everyone can just pick up and move is ludicrous to me. Look at all of the research showing that low income families spend 70% of their income on rent. A single missed paycheck equals a massive crisis. If you've never lived like this or known anyone who does then you are fortunate. I am fortunate and I am happy to share what I have with others who are less so.

Their pay checks would probably go much further in Woodbridge.

There has been a lot of accusations thrown around about the VHC parcel and it being targeted for AH.
How do we know this is happening?

FTR not all housing being discussed by the County as "affordable" is "subsidized." Making developers allocated a certain number of units as "below market" is not the same thing as subsidizing.

And I'm the PP who used the example of nurses and teachers as I have worked as both. I don't live in affordable housing partly bc I'm part of a dual income household and also because nursing has been an upwardly mobile field for me. But the example could extend to nursing aides, EMTs, etc etc. That said it does not bother me in the slightest that much of the AH in Arlington goes to people working in other professions. I actually live very close to a complex of AH and know that the families who live there are working hard and trying to secure a future for their kids. This is the American Dream.

This idea that everyone can just pick up and move is ludicrous to me. Look at all of the research showing that low income families spend 70% of their income on rent. A single missed paycheck equals a massive crisis. If you've never lived like this or known anyone who does then you are fortunate. I am fortunate and I am happy to share what I have with others who are less so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The affordable housing study shows that the number of "market rate affordable" units -- the apartments that a family of four making 60% of the average median income of $107,000 can afford -- dropped from over 10,000 apartments in 2004 to just over 3,000 units in 2014. That is the displacement of 7,000 moderate income families who lived in Arlington--for example, the huge Arna Valley complex that was knocked down and replaced with "The Avalon" and "The Harlowe," or the blocks and blocks of Buckingham Village apartments that are now $800,000 townhouses.

While yes, this is market forces at work and developers have the right to build on their property to its highest use within the zoning laws, its also not unreasonable that the county should try and do something to help out lower income county residents by trying to staunch the losses. If you immigrated from here in the 90's, had your kids at VHC, send them to APS schools, work in Arlington or DC or Fairfax, whatever---it sucks that your landlord can kick you out and you have to move to Manassas that is an hour from your job and pull your kids out of school and where you don't know anyone. No one is entitled to live anywhere, but it's not crazy to say that as an extremely wealthy county--that is wealthy in part because the value of real estate has increased so much--we should spend some of that wealth to help out those displaced by its acquisition.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also to the PPs talking about "poor" people and their limited choices--I moved to Arlington to work as an RN. I previously worked as a teacher before changing careers. I would be hard pressed to afford an apartment as either a teacher or a nurse. When you talk about affordable housing remember that you're not just keeping out people's maids or nannies but also nurses, teachers, EMTs, police, firefighters....

I wholeheartedly disagree and you need to realize that these resident would be low income.

Middle income families who need affordable housing are those families making $90k - $150k. Those households struggle way more in this area and those are the households with lower income professional families that want good neighborhoods and good schools. Alexandria at least once attempted this but building a tiny block of "workforce housing".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The affordable housing study shows that the number of "market rate affordable" units -- the apartments that a family of four making 60% of the average median income of $107,000 can afford -- dropped from over 10,000 apartments in 2004 to just over 3,000 units in 2014. That is the displacement of 7,000 moderate income families who lived in Arlington--for example, the huge Arna Valley complex that was knocked down and replaced with "The Avalon" and "The Harlowe," or the blocks and blocks of Buckingham Village apartments that are now $800,000 townhouses.

While yes, this is market forces at work and developers have the right to build on their property to its highest use within the zoning laws, its also not unreasonable that the county should try and do something to help out lower income county residents by trying to staunch the losses. If you immigrated from here in the 90's, had your kids at VHC, send them to APS schools, work in Arlington or DC or Fairfax, whatever---it sucks that your landlord can kick you out and you have to move to Manassas that is an hour from your job and pull your kids out of school and where you don't know anyone. No one is entitled to live anywhere, but it's not crazy to say that as an extremely wealthy county--that is wealthy in part because the value of real estate has increased so much--we should spend some of that wealth to help out those displaced by its acquisition.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also to the PPs talking about "poor" people and their limited choices--I moved to Arlington to work as an RN. I previously worked as a teacher before changing careers. I would be hard pressed to afford an apartment as either a teacher or a nurse. When you talk about affordable housing remember that you're not just keeping out people's maids or nannies but also nurses, teachers, EMTs, police, firefighters....

Actually it's cab drivers and construction workers...

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/02/Occupations-of-Tenants-of-CAFs-Feb-2015.pdf

That study says:

6 of the 7 persons categorized in “education” were classroom teachers or
aides, although none worked with Arlington County Public Schools (see
section 5 below).

Okay, none of the teachers or aides worked for Arlington County? So where DO they work? Why don't they seek affordable housing in the county in which they are employed? If they are working for a PRIVATE SCHOOL, why are we subsiding the private school's cheapness by having to pay for their employee's housing costs?

Here's the breakdown. It's really ridiculous that we're paying housing costs for 28 taxi drivers. As said earlier, the top occupations are those that are "cash based" (in other words, easy to conceal cash payments and underreport income and thus be able to qualify for affordable housing).

Number of persons in category / percentage / category:
56 16.7% Restaurant, food services
38 11.3% Construction
31 9.2% Office and administrative
28 8.3% Taxi, other drivers
27 8.0% Retail
21 6.3% Other
20 6.0% Personal care and service
18 5.4% Building and grounds cleaning/maintenance
13 3.9% General services
12 3.6% Computer/IT
11 3.3% Transportation
11 3.3% Arts and entertainment
10 3.0% Healthcare support
10 3.0% Property management
8 2.4% Hotel
8 2.4% Health practitioners
7 2.1% Business/financial
7 1.8% Education

I am willing to bet that the "teachers" are actually daycare teachers, a traditionally low paying job that does not always require a degree but years of experience and a very easy to obtain CDA certificate.

Yes, this is one of the big problems with how affordable / subsidized housing is framed in Arlington.

This is who is NOT helped by subsidized housing:
- County public servants
- County firefighters
- County teachers
- County police officers
- Long time County residents.

Arlington's AH program cannot legally target these people. So instead we build heavily subsidized housing (and incur ongoing, permanent expenses), and have people who are NOT currently residents move in.

In other words - we are spending County resources on people who are not County residents, and then continuously subsidizing their residency for as long as they choose to live here.

At the same time that is happening we have a growing crises from school crowding, a large hole in the County budget as we are still trying to recover from BRAC and the decrease in our commercial tax base, and the County fighting residents in order to not provide core services.

For example - see the Clarendon example with the County trying to force residents to pay for their own sewage line. However, at the same time this is going on, the County has no problem committing to subsidizing efforts to make 20% of the housing stock be subsidized.

There is a time and a place for subsidizing housing, and there is a way to do it right. However the issue is that many people think the priorities have skewed too far toward subsidized housing and away from current residents and core services.

That has to stop. We've already got a glimpse of what the alternative is. Look at the Arlington Forest neighborhood and Lubber Run Park, a vital green space for a neighborhood sandwiched between Route 50 and George Mason Drive, two hugely busy roads. The subsidized housing crew, and the County, seriously considered converting that park into an affordable housing complex.

Likewise look at what is happening with the Virginia Hospital Center complex that the County is gaining in a land swap. 11+ acres of contiguous land, probably the last time the County will ever be able to acquire such a large tract. The affordable housing crew is ALREADY planning on converting it into an AH complex.

Again, Arlington residents are not de facto opposed to subsidizing housing. However many people think that AF should not be among the top 2-3 priorities within the County.

1.8 in education.... Wow.
No fireman
No police officers

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are wrong about this. Yes, nearby SFH's have held their value, but they are[i] nearby and not within the same Civic Association I'm speaking about.[/i]

I did not know that you were speaking about Civic Association boundaries, and I am not sure they are relevant.

There are no market rate developments proposed within this civic association.


So the Food Star is not within the CA? Ok. But isn't it close to all the CAH?

5500 was built before Arlington Mill was completed, before The Shell broke ground,

You did not specify the period when the SES has declined. So the SES increased, and then it declined? In an area as small as a CA, since development is lumpy, it is likely you will get fluctuations like that.


before The Serranno was converted to CAF's.

Was it not market rate AH before that?

Also, I think it's fair to point out where residents themselves are not entirely pleased with their living conditions. Especially considering this property just appealed to the county for an interest rate reduction and received it. If we're spending the money to provide safe, stable housing for families to get a foothold in Arlington, which I believe is a worthy goal, let's make sure we're doing the very best we can. But whatever, I guess everything is either FOR or AGAINST.

If you are suggesting that management at the Nauck building should be improved, I heartily agree. Is anyone disagreeing? The issue is you are using the management issues there to claim that all the committed AH buildings in Arlington are "tenements" with the implication that they are making the western Pike a slum, which I think is thoroughly inaccurate.

I am not the poster who used the terms "tenement" or "slums" and I'm not claiming they are all run poorly. I think it's appropriate to point out areas of improvement and places where we're falling short.

I wish you'd stop conflating honest and well-deserved criticisms with the anti-AH-in-principle screed. We are not the same posters, and we're not the same people in real life. But if your attitude of "must cheer-lead, cannot recognize problems, get out of this tent" to every person in Arlington, even people who voted for all the things in the past, and all the "D" candidates, then you're creating the backlash you so rightly deserve. Arlington is small, and everything is hyper-local. The CA I was talking about has some real concerns and they are not, and will not see development that other areas, even areas 1/4 mile away will see because businesses don't want to locate in a place that is economically "frozen." They choose the neighborhood that has the potential to support said business. I know it's going to be a lot easier for AH to be built on land that AH developers already own. But I am of the opinion that we need to work harder towards geographic distribution, even if that means it's more difficult and we can't build as much as possible RIGHT NOW. I believe it's better to build it in a way that doesn't concentrate poverty in neighborhoods and schools, even if those were the neighborhoods and schools where the less privileged were already living. We should not be perpetuating and reinforcing historic patterns of segregation, both economic and racial/ethnic segregation.

And also, stop obfuscating. NO TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, FIREFIGHTERS actually live in Committed Affordable Housing. The county's own study reveals this claim is false, but you always trot it out. It's just NOT TRUE. STOP LYING SO WE CAN HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.

I live in 22207 and our neighbor an arlington police officer just sold his house for more than a million. Also our dc's preschool teacher lives in a arlington sfh. How is this possible? Well they have double incomes just like the rest of us. Not all these occupations need assistance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The affordable housing study shows that the number of "market rate affordable" units -- the apartments that a family of four making 60% of the average median income of $107,000 can afford -- dropped from over 10,000 apartments in 2004 to just over 3,000 units in 2014. That is the displacement of 7,000 moderate income families who lived in Arlington--for example, the huge Arna Valley complex that was knocked down and replaced with "The Avalon" and "The Harlowe," or the blocks and blocks of Buckingham Village apartments that are now $800,000 townhouses.

While yes, this is market forces at work and developers have the right to build on their property to its highest use within the zoning laws, its also not unreasonable that the county should try and do something to help out lower income county residents by trying to staunch the losses. If you immigrated from here in the 90's, had your kids at VHC, send them to APS schools, work in Arlington or DC or Fairfax, whatever---it sucks that your landlord can kick you out and you have to move to Manassas that is an hour from your job and pull your kids out of school and where you don't know anyone. No one is entitled to live anywhere, but it's not crazy to say that as an extremely wealthy county--that is wealthy in part because the value of real estate has increased so much--we should spend some of that wealth to help out those displaced by its acquisition.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also to the PPs talking about "poor" people and their limited choices--I moved to Arlington to work as an RN. I previously worked as a teacher before changing careers. I would be hard pressed to afford an apartment as either a teacher or a nurse. When you talk about affordable housing remember that you're not just keeping out people's maids or nannies but also nurses, teachers, EMTs, police, firefighters....

Actually it's cab drivers and construction workers...

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/02/Occupations-of-Tenants-of-CAFs-Feb-2015.pdf

That study says:

6 of the 7 persons categorized in “education” were classroom teachers or
aides, although none worked with Arlington County Public Schools (see
section 5 below).

Okay, none of the teachers or aides worked for Arlington County? So where DO they work? Why don't they seek affordable housing in the county in which they are employed? If they are working for a PRIVATE SCHOOL, why are we subsiding the private school's cheapness by having to pay for their employee's housing costs?

Here's the breakdown. It's really ridiculous that we're paying housing costs for 28 taxi drivers. As said earlier, the top occupations are those that are "cash based" (in other words, easy to conceal cash payments and underreport income and thus be able to qualify for affordable housing).

Number of persons in category / percentage / category:
56 16.7% Restaurant, food services
38 11.3% Construction
31 9.2% Office and administrative
28 8.3% Taxi, other drivers
27 8.0% Retail
21 6.3% Other
20 6.0% Personal care and service
18 5.4% Building and grounds cleaning/maintenance
13 3.9% General services
12 3.6% Computer/IT
11 3.3% Transportation
11 3.3% Arts and entertainment
10 3.0% Healthcare support
10 3.0% Property management
8 2.4% Hotel
8 2.4% Health practitioners
7 2.1% Business/financial
7 1.8% Education

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are wrong about this. Yes, nearby SFH's have held their value, but they are[i] nearby and not within the same Civic Association I'm speaking about.[/i]

I did not know that you were speaking about Civic Association boundaries, and I am not sure they are relevant.

There are no market rate developments proposed within this civic association.


So the Food Star is not within the CA? Ok. But isn't it close to all the CAH?

5500 was built before Arlington Mill was completed, before The Shell broke ground,

You did not specify the period when the SES has declined. So the SES increased, and then it declined? In an area as small as a CA, since development is lumpy, it is likely you will get fluctuations like that.


before The Serranno was converted to CAF's.

Was it not market rate AH before that?

Also, I think it's fair to point out where residents themselves are not entirely pleased with their living conditions. Especially considering this property just appealed to the county for an interest rate reduction and received it. If we're spending the money to provide safe, stable housing for families to get a foothold in Arlington, which I believe is a worthy goal, let's make sure we're doing the very best we can. But whatever, I guess everything is either FOR or AGAINST.

If you are suggesting that management at the Nauck building should be improved, I heartily agree. Is anyone disagreeing? The issue is you are using the management issues there to claim that all the committed AH buildings in Arlington are "tenements" with the implication that they are making the western Pike a slum, which I think is thoroughly inaccurate.

I am not the poster who used the terms "tenement" or "slums" and I'm not claiming they are all run poorly. I think it's appropriate to point out areas of improvement and places where we're falling short.

I wish you'd stop conflating honest and well-deserved criticisms with the anti-AH-in-principle screed. We are not the same posters, and we're not the same people in real life. But if your attitude of "must cheer-lead, cannot recognize problems, get out of this tent" to every person in Arlington, even people who voted for all the things in the past, and all the "D" candidates, then you're creating the backlash you so rightly deserve. Arlington is small, and everything is hyper-local. The CA I was talking about has some real concerns and they are not, and will not see development that other areas, even areas 1/4 mile away will see because businesses don't want to locate in a place that is economically "frozen." They choose the neighborhood that has the potential to support said business. I know it's going to be a lot easier for AH to be built on land that AH developers already own. But I am of the opinion that we need to work harder towards geographic distribution, even if that means it's more difficult and we can't build as much as possible RIGHT NOW. I believe it's better to build it in a way that doesn't concentrate poverty in neighborhoods and schools, even if those were the neighborhoods and schools where the less privileged were already living. We should not be perpetuating and reinforcing historic patterns of segregation, both economic and racial/ethnic segregation.

And also, stop obfuscating. NO TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, FIREFIGHTERS actually live in Committed Affordable Housing. The county's own study reveals this claim is false, but you always trot it out. It's just NOT TRUE. STOP LYING SO WE CAN HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.


I

Uh, no it doesn't. It states that there are teachers, just not as teachers, and there are aps employees. There is a while category of health care workers. I personally know a nurse who lives in a caf. You are reading what you want to in that study. Speaking of not lying....

Anonymous wrote:

You are wrong about this. Yes, nearby SFH's have held their value, but they are[i] nearby and not within the same Civic Association I'm speaking about.[/i]

I did not know that you were speaking about Civic Association boundaries, and I am not sure they are relevant.

There are no market rate developments proposed within this civic association.


So the Food Star is not within the CA? Ok. But isn't it close to all the CAH?

5500 was built before Arlington Mill was completed, before The Shell broke ground,

You did not specify the period when the SES has declined. So the SES increased, and then it declined? In an area as small as a CA, since development is lumpy, it is likely you will get fluctuations like that.


before The Serranno was converted to CAF's.

Was it not market rate AH before that?

Also, I think it's fair to point out where residents themselves are not entirely pleased with their living conditions. Especially considering this property just appealed to the county for an interest rate reduction and received it. If we're spending the money to provide safe, stable housing for families to get a foothold in Arlington, which I believe is a worthy goal, let's make sure we're doing the very best we can. But whatever, I guess everything is either FOR or AGAINST.

If you are suggesting that management at the Nauck building should be improved, I heartily agree. Is anyone disagreeing? The issue is you are using the management issues there to claim that all the committed AH buildings in Arlington are "tenements" with the implication that they are making the western Pike a slum, which I think is thoroughly inaccurate.

I am not the poster who used the terms "tenement" or "slums" and I'm not claiming they are all run poorly. I think it's appropriate to point out areas of improvement and places where we're falling short.

I wish you'd stop conflating honest and well-deserved criticisms with the anti-AH-in-principle screed. We are not the same posters, and we're not the same people in real life. But if your attitude of "must cheer-lead, cannot recognize problems, get out of this tent" to every person in Arlington, even people who voted for all the things in the past, and all the "D" candidates, then you're creating the backlash you so rightly deserve. Arlington is small, and everything is hyper-local. The CA I was talking about has some real concerns and they are not, and will not see development that other areas, even areas 1/4 mile away will see because businesses don't want to locate in a place that is economically "frozen." They choose the neighborhood that has the potential to support said business. I know it's going to be a lot easier for AH to be built on land that AH developers already own. But I am of the opinion that we need to work harder towards geographic distribution, even if that means it's more difficult and we can't build as much as possible RIGHT NOW. I believe it's better to build it in a way that doesn't concentrate poverty in neighborhoods and schools, even if those were the neighborhoods and schools where the less privileged were already living. We should not be perpetuating and reinforcing historic patterns of segregation, both economic and racial/ethnic segregation.

And also, stop obfuscating. NO TEACHERS, POLICEMEN, FIREFIGHTERS actually live in Committed Affordable Housing. The county's own study reveals this claim is false, but you always trot it out. It's just NOT TRUE. STOP LYING SO WE CAN HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.