Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.

Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.

And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].

By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.

OP here. This is my take on many of these situations exactly.

Did you let your daughter even try?

Yes. She been trying since September. The girl's behavior has escalated.

Has she tried to band together with the other nice girls to make a bigger statement that they aren't ok with her behavior?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.

Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.

And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].

By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.

OP here. This is my take on many of these situations exactly.

Did you let your daughter even try?

Yes. She been trying since September. The girl's behavior has escalated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.

Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.

And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].

By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.

OP here. This is my take on many of these situations exactly.

Did you let your daughter even try?

Immediate PP is a sane voice. I'm shocked by how much of this thread is about putting the blame on the other child. Oh that child is mean. Oh that child is a bully. Oh you have to stop that child from excluding.

There are a lot of children at this age who can handle this type of issue without going to an adult much less a parent and expecting that mommy will run to the school and raise hell.

I have found that the moms that pretend to be so smug about their own children are really afraid to admit that there's something wrong with their own children that may be causing issues. Maybe OP's child has anxiety and lacks the social skills to deal with this. Maybe not. But most of you have become this crazy mom mob attacking the other girl. It makes no sense.

I am not sure this was brought up but I would talk to teacher. You may find out that your daughter is not blameless. She may do her own little kid bullying or she may have a personality that annoys. You need to hear exactly what is going on and be open if you hear something negative about your own child. I know a min in my son's class who went on and on about her child being bullied. I asked my son about this little girl and her friends and i got an earful back that this little girl has a habit of lying etc. I decided to stay out of it but it reminded me that you really need to get a story from a teacher and not just believe your child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I always assume it's the parents of the mean kids who say kids should work it out themselves.

IME it's usually high achieving working parents who are independent and confident and want to raise a child to grow up to be the same. Their kids are usually the cool kids
It's the SAHMs with socially awkward kids who get caught up in all this drama themselves and make a big deal about something like this.

You don't have children, obviously. Shame really.

Thanks everyone. I definitely want her to know I've got her back. If I have to err on the side of helping too much or her thinking she can't come to me for help, I'll chose the former for sure.

Talk with the teacher and the School counselor.

Our elementary school counselors are fantastic. They've been so helpful with these issues - helping the kids develop and use strategies to handle tough social situations, including on the other side - pausing to think about other people's feelings and choosing to be kind rather than mean.

These are normal, age-appropriate issues that the counselors have helped kids navigate year in and year out. Take advantage of their expertise and in the process teach DD how to identify and tap into school resources, including helpful adults and counselors. It's a great thing for her to know it's ok to ask for help dealing with something difficult.

OP, I have been there, both with a son and a daughter, both in early elementary.

Letting your child's teacher know and letting them know having the school counselor help is something you are in favor of, is genuinely helpful. For all the PPs who said the kids need to work it out for themselves, the counselors in elementary actually guide the children to do just that, often asking questions to get them started, and then supervising it. One year, they even had a small tent in the counselor's office and the children could go in the tent together and talk about it after the counselor had discussed it with them. It never, ever failed to work out to the benefit of both children. Sometimes it developed into long-lasting friendships because they learned some things about one another they didn't know.

Sometimes the counselor will just go in after an episode like this and talk to the whole class as a group so no one is singled out. Afterward, the teacher can then approach the two who are having trouble and have an excuse to tease out what is going on. This is absolutely what the counselors are for – helping the kids work out these things in elementary so they gain confidence for the bigger issues down the road.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of kids learning to stand up for themselves is learning to ask for help when needed. In this case, your daughter should bring it to the teacher's attention, and let her know that other kids are having issues too. Only if the teacher doesn't do anything should you get involved. This hasn't risen to the level of bullying, and until it does, see what you daughter can do. I would bet that she can surprise you if you give her the chance.

Her DD. Did ask for help. She asked her mom for help. She did is by telling her about the situation. That's how little kids ask for help. Keep in mind many, many adults also have problems asking others for help so to say a 2nd grader should be able to do it perfectly is ridiculous and ignores reality.

Yes, the teacher should be contacted as well as the counselor and the principal. Most schools now are very keen on stopping this behavior in the elementary years and the "kids will be kids" attitude had been slowing turning to intervention with the realization that mean kids are kids that need help with social skills and he earlier the better.

When I see parents express things like "let them work it out" or "you are helicoptering" it just says that the parent themselves is afraid. Afraid of confrontation and afraid of acknowledging that their kid might not be the cool, popular kid or the kid who has problem making friends. I also think the parent is the one with low self esteem who can't speak up in behalf of their child. When you as the parent don't model it, your child will not learn it when they are young.

And her DD needs help in learning to stand up for herself, which means [b]DD needs to speak to someone at school, not have mom jump the gun. By second grade, most kids are able to bring this to a teacher or counselor, and OP needs to work with her daughter on figuring out who to go to for help, not always bringing things to her[/b].

By 2nd grade most of the teachers are shooing kids away and telling them not to come to them for help with issues. In fact, it's a very confusing message that teachers can send unless the teachers take the time to really spell out what issues should get handled by the kids themselves vs. what issues require intervention. And no, most teachers do not take this approach.

Another issue is that teacher very often do not take the concerns of the student seriously UNTIL the parent also reaches out to the teacher with the same concern.

So here is how the lesson in independence goes - parent tells child to be independent and advocate for them self, child goes to teacher with issue, teacher nods sympathetically and provides no help except the expected platitudes but no solution and nothing serious done, child internalizes the message that the teacher doesn't consider the problem serious so the child is wrong and didn't have good judgement, and the situation keeps happening but child doesn't tell teacher again because in their 2nd grade mind the teacher told child they were wrong to come and tell her/him, and child continues to be miserable.

For a lot of kids, by the time they are complaining to a parent about the situation, they have already been through the above scenario because they understand the concept of asking the teacher for help.

OP here. This is my take on many of these situations exactly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?

Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.

I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.

These are the same people who are not affected by their own babies wailing at night when they do CIO.

LOL. I'm the biggest co-sleeper out there but I also very much let my kids be as independent as they can, especially at the playground. I spot my kids at the playground if they are climbing high, but otherwise I let them work it out themselves. They are learning how to move their bodies and judge distances/heights. They are learning how to fall - and get back up. You have to know your kids too. My DD2 is very athletic and capable but when she gets tired/hungry she whines that she can't do really basic things. So I tell her "you can do it!" and sure enough she can. I would be doing her an injustice if I caved every time she asked for help.

So maybe the playground mom has seen her kid do it before. Maybe she is encouraging her to stretch herself to test her limits. Who knows. She wasn't ignoring her child, she was letting her navigate the playground herself.

Your job isn't to help your kids, it's to encourage them to learn how to help themselves.

Those are completely different examples -- not at all what we are discussing!

A second grader is old enough to learn to talk to the teacher for herself rather than running to her mother to make her mother take care of it for her.

Except when the teacher doesn't want to hear it, or doesn't allow tattling, or when the teacher tells the student to work it out on their own. Then the aggressive child continues excluding, bullying and making everyone miserable without any consequences.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you kids? Can't they work it out themselves? Why do you need to be involved?

Why is it wrong to want to help your kid? I see this all the time on dcum and I don't understand.

I don't get this either. If my daughter came to me for help, of course I would try to help her! On the other hand, if she would rather try to handle it herself, I'd support her in that, too -- I would try to strategize with her on how to handle it, but would stand back.

I saw this on the playground over the weekend -- a toddler was trying to climb down from something, got stuck, and was crying for mommy. The mom just stood there and kept saying, "You can do it!" Uh no, she couldn't, that's why she was crying and stuck. If your kid asks you for help and you refuse to give it, you're just teaching her that when she needs you, you won't be there for her. That's something I certainly don't want to teach my kids.

These are the same people who are not affected by their own babies wailing at night when they do CIO.

Those are three totally separate situations. Teaching a child independence needs to be age-appropriate. Some kids do well with CIO, some don't. Some toddlers cry to try to manipulate and make the parent do what they want, btdt, but if the parent doesn't back down unless the child is actually in need of help, they learn to be more independent. A second grader is old enough to learn to talk to the teacher for herself rather than running to her mother to make her mother take care of it for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This happened with my DD last year in 1st (same pushy girl?). I talked to my DD about options, encouraged her to address it herself, and let her decide. She ended up talking to the pushy girl and nicely said that she still wanted to be friends but it wasn't ok to exclude others. Another girl chimed in too and then pushy girl was nicer after that. Fortunately they are not in the same class this year so much less drama.

Anyway, I strongly feel that situations like this are great opportunities for your child to learn coping skills. If you do talk to the teacher or counselor I'd ask them to help guide your child through the issue instead of just fixing it for them.

How do you think the teacher is going to fix it, exactly? She's going to watch what happens and then make the girls talk about it and help them resolve it. Chances are the teacher is going to turn it into a learning experience, too.

We went the "let him fix it" route for too long. This "pushiness" turned into flat out bullying and harassment. A large portion of the pushy kids don't really give a damn about being nice. They want to be the Queen Bee.

Let the teacher know what is up. She can decide how/when to intervene. You also have no idea what else may be going on with this other girl.