Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the difference between discrimination theory and distribution theory.

Both have advocates and merits, but to believe discrimination theory you have to believe all traits exists in equal frequency among all cultures, populations, races, etc.

Just take a look at the NBA.

Blacks are better at basketball primarily because they play it more often and take it up as a hobby at very young ages. And the large proportion of black people in the NBA encourages more black kids to participate in the sport and this effectively snowballs over time. There is also much to the self-fulfilling prophecy / halo effect is in play for Black athletes. For instance, if you remind an Asian student and a Black student of their race prior to an examination (through a demographic questionnaire, for example), the Asian kid will score higher and the Black kid will score lower than what they would have scored without the reminder. Likewise, if you remind an Asian Girl she's Asian prior to a math exam, she'll score higher; while if you remind her she's a girl, she'll score lower. All this to say, because society has stereotypes for different races of kids, they will lead to self-fulfilling feedback loops. When everyone believes Black kids should be great at basketball, it will lead to more confidence and positive feedback (and shaming on the other end of the spectrum), which leads to more practice and competition, which then leads to better athletes. Bias also comes into play. In football quarterbacks are disproportionally white, receivers and RB's black and there are differences in how players are used. A white RB will typically have a fullback role and white receiver typically tasked to short routes even though their measurables indicate they are suited to take larger roles. Black QB's are typically found in spread offenses where they are expected to run more and not called on to run more complicated pass schemes even though the evidence may show the player could run a traditional drop back pass offense. These differences can only be explained by the bias of coaches. It starts at the junior high or youth level as players get slotted into roles often based on a quick perception early in practice.
A white player who would likely be a guard is often steered into baseball.

Thinking of it another way. Are Hispanics/Latinos genetically predisposed to play Baseball well? Nope. But young boys all over central America and the Caribbean play it constantly, at a high level, to best their friends/opponents and neighbors for fun. They become good, they become great - and many wind up in a academy/training/recruiting system which eventually fills the ranks of professional baseball (wherever it is played). They simpler work harder and longer at it . Even weather is a factor; people who live in temperate climate zones are more likely to excel at outdoor sports.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can guarantee AAP mirrors the FCPS population when we guarantee all varsity sports also mirror the ethnic make up of the district.

Bingo!!!

Anonymous wrote:I don't think they should accept any outside testing like the WISC. Not everyone can afford to pay for private testing so it creates an unfair advantage to affluent families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admittance into any advanced program whether aap or TJ, should be double blind. No name, no sex, no race. Just the numbers. I would be incredibly offended if I were given special treatment based on my race or cultural heritage. It's extremely insulting. Double blind truly is the only way to go.

It's more insulting to be gifted and not identified due to racial and cultural biases.

Anonymous wrote:We can guarantee AAP mirrors the FCPS population when we guarantee all varsity sports also mirror the ethnic make up of the district.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

But it is still race in that if those same kids did not have the money, they would be seen as not AAP ready and people would have said "Well he/she is black/hispanic you shouldn't lower the bar for them. They didn't score 132 on NNAT or CogAT it's lowering standards blah blah blah." When in reality, the child IS gifted but it did not show on those tests.

How is this different from a child of any race who doesn't have the money for pay for a WISC? It boils down to SES.

Unless you're claiming that the minority child should have been given the benefit of the doubt and admitted without it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

But it is still race in that if those same kids did not have the money, they would be seen as not AAP ready and people would have said "Well he/she is black/hispanic you shouldn't lower the bar for them. They didn't score 132 on NNAT or CogAT it's lowering standards blah blah blah." When in reality, the child IS gifted but it did not show on those tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

But it is still race in that if those same kids did not have the money, they would be seen as not AAP ready and people would have said "Well he/she is black/hispanic you shouldn't lower the bar for them. They didn't score 132 on NNAT or CogAT it's lowering standards blah blah blah." When in reality, the child IS gifted but it did not show on those tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

Anonymous wrote:What about non-disabled children who score poorly on both intelligence and academic tests?

Shouldn't those children also be represented in academically gifted classes?

Its only fair right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.

I read this, and think how the better proxy for intelligence is SES, not race. I think every example I've read here says "I paid for a WISC and my child was identified."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Parent to FCPS and AAP. My DS went into AAP after spending the first 6 years (K-5) at a Dual Language Private School. We don’t consider our DS gifted…just a hard worker…works until he overcomes the challenge. The private school had most of the kids working at least 1 grade level above maybe 2 in some areas as part of the normal curriculum; it was not a gifted program but the teachers held the kids to high standards and the kids learned to meet those standards. Because high standards were part of the environment; the kids (and the parents) learned to adjust. Our DS first year in AAP was a review for most of the subjects. Was he gifted because he knew more than the other “gifted kids” who had been in the program since 3rd grade? No, he was just taught some the material before they were. Our DS speaks fluent French and is able to read, write and study each subject in French. Is he gifted? No, he was taught in two languages. Nothing more. The FCPS AAP is not a “gifted program” it is an advanced curriculum program where the material is about 1 year ahead; and the one year ahead is a normal curriculum that their peers will learn the following year. Nothing more. I think most kids would be able to do well in AAP if afforded the opportunity to learn advanced material early on…say starting in 1st grade. AAP is a good public school advanced academic school program but in no way is it a “Gifted Program.” I would guess that if you took a random 1st grade class made up of an appropriate representation of FCPS demographics (of average kids) and taught them advanced material…they would do just fine. Our DS is African American and I don’t really see what the big deal is with AAP. I see more parents on this board trying to bolster the prestige of the AAP program and how special their DC are by putting their kids test scores out here for public consumption. What I don’t see as much on this board is those very parents coming back to this board after their child doesn’t get into TJ or if they have to pull their kid out of AAP for whatever reason and talk about that. If this AAP board is going to be useful I would think that parents would be more inclined to post information that is going to help other parents assist their kids in being successful not only in the AAP program but in school and life. The less than diverse demographics in AAP is more opportunity and access than it is about how intelligent your child is. Any hardworking child (regardless of demographics) can be successful in anything…including the FCPS AAP program.

I agree. Hispanic parent here and my child entered K knowing how to read (level 6 by October) and able to do addition and subtraction. I think she is intelligent but not that much more intelligent than her peers. The only difference between her and some of her classmates is that I had the money to pay for extra enrichment in preschool. I think that there is where the difference can be found. The ability to test well is correlated to the parents income and ability to prepare their children. Those posters that assume one race is naturally not as intelligent are purposely blinding themselves to the advantages that higher economic class and all the inherent opportunities provide.

Well stated.