I did tell her the majority view in this forum and that many told me that the operation of the rule is that even if she got copied by someone without her consent and knowledge, both parties would be deemed to have violated the honor code. Personally, I still don't think that is a fair rule, but we will follow the rule to avoid getting caught up in a bad situation in the future.

Giving your work to another shows knowledge that they could copy your work. Your daughter did have knowledge that the other girl had her work because she gave it to her. The other girl did not steal it without your daughter's knowledge. Your daughter knowingly and willingly sent the work to her friend. At that point, she knew or should have known that her friend could copy the work, even if the friend didn't come right out and say that she was planning to copy it.

This situation is different from the situation mentioned in an earlier post where a student had inadvertently lost papers in a hallway and other kids picked them up and copied them. That student had no knowledge that others had his work and did not consent to being copied. I was always taught that when you allow others to see your work, you know or should know that they could copy it.

It is surprising that you as the parent and an adult find this rule so surprising. Good kids can make mistakes, but if my child told me this story, I would have asked her why she gave her homework to the friend in the first place. She should have known that it is wrong to share your work and that both she and her friend are responsible for doing their own work. I think I would sit down with my child and have a good talk about cheating and plagiarism and how important it is to do one's own work.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the kind words and advice.

DD took the SAT this weekend and is trying to move on by putting this behind her. No, she did not talk to teacher to find out more about whether the F was for the assignment or for the quarter. She does not want to talk about this experience anymore.

I did tell her the majority view in this forum and that many told me that the operation of the rule is that even if she got copied by someone without her consent and knowledge, both parties would be deemed to have violated the honor code. Personally, I still don't think that is a fair rule, but we will follow the rule to avoid getting caught up in a bad situation in the future.

I took a look at the report card again, it is a "progress report" card that I cannot find in the SIS. This one lists out the individual assignments (thus far in the quarter) with different points assigned to each assignment. This is something I can only get through emails from the teachers. I used to get one from most teachers from time to time. This year I only get it from one teacher. I do not know how the F at the top was calculated. If someone knows how to get this from SIS, please let me know how to step by step.

In SIS, the latest I can see is the second quarter. There is a notation that the Interim for third quarter will end on March 15. So by my calculation, there are not many assignments left to move the grade in any meaningful way. It seems to me that the most I can hope for is a D for the third quarter.

OP, no, you're still twisting things a bit. She should not have shared work that had been graded for accuracy to another student who had not yet turned in the assignment. How can she not realize that that is giving another student answers that are clearly correct as they have been graded? How can YOU think that rule is not fair? As a teacher, if I have to give students a makeup quiz, they get a completely different quiz than the first one for this reason- once I've handed it back, the answers are out there. So I make a new quiz. But for an open assignment that still had time to be completed and turned in, your daughter GAVE another student the correct answers. That IS violating the honor code. I'm not sure why you are being so cagey about that. You come very close to admitting your daughter just messed up, and it happens, it's not the end of the world, but you never quite get there because you want to let her weasel out under some idea that the honor code is just not very fair or well written.

OP here again. Thanks for the directions to get to the grade and reminding me that interim is only mid-quarter. Yes, I see that grade book now, which is similar to the program reports that I got. It looked like it has been updated with one more assignment, consistent with what you told me. Thanks.

Long way to go, but let's see what DD can recover.

Interems for 3rd quarter means that the 3rd quarter is about half over next Friday (start of spring break! Yeah!), not that the 3rd quarter is over. Your DD really does have plenty of time to rally from this.

Have you looked in SIS under the tab on the left labeled
"gradebook"? You should be able to click on that, then on the class and see the individual assignments and their grades listed.

OP here. Thanks for the kind words and advice.

DD took the SAT this weekend and is trying to move on by putting this behind her. No, she did not talk to teacher to find out more about whether the F was for the assignment or for the quarter. She does not want to talk about this experience anymore.

I did tell her the majority view in this forum and that many told me that the operation of the rule is that even if she got copied by someone without her consent and knowledge, both parties would be deemed to have violated the honor code. Personally, I still don't think that is a fair rule, but we will follow the rule to avoid getting caught up in a bad situation in the future.

I took a look at the report card again, it is a "progress report" card that I cannot find in the SIS. This one lists out the individual assignments (thus far in the quarter) with different points assigned to each assignment. This is something I can only get through emails from the teachers. I used to get one from most teachers from time to time. This year I only get it from one teacher. I do not know how the F at the top was calculated. If someone knows how to get this from SIS, please let me know how to step by step.

In SIS, the latest I can see is the second quarter. There is a notation that the Interim for third quarter will end on March 15. So by my calculation, there are not many assignments left to move the grade in any meaningful way. It seems to me that the most I can hope for is a D for the third quarter.

OP, did your child find out whether the F was for the assignment or for the quarter when she went back to school on Monday?

Thanks for posting this OP. Going to warn my kid.

Anonymous wrote:I think a part of the issue was OP may have mistakenly assumed that her DD was getting an F as the final grade for the quarter because of this. That would have been harsh. It seems like as the posts went on, she figured out that her DD got a zero for the assignment, and because it's early in the quarter with few assignments so far, and possibly a glitch in SIS, it is currently an F, but can be brought up as more assignments are completed. I'm not sure OP would have posted over a zero only on the assignment, which is an entirely appropriate punishment.

+1

For the DD, this is a good lesson to learn. "Let me see your homework" is often code for "I'm going to copy", and she needs to understand that now. One friend and a few acquaintances got caught up in separate plagiarism\copying stuff in college. My friend, at least, seemed like a very smart and savvy person but she got caught up in something that when explained was completely convoluted and stupid. She was guilty of being extremely naive but it definitely hurt her especially since her major was criminal justice.

I think a part of the issue was OP may have mistakenly assumed that her DD was getting an F as the final grade for the quarter because of this. That would have been harsh. It seems like as the posts went on, she figured out that her DD got a zero for the assignment, and because it's early in the quarter with few assignments so far, and possibly a glitch in SIS, it is currently an F, but can be brought up as more assignments are completed. I'm not sure OP would have posted over a zero only on the assignment, which is an entirely appropriate punishment.

Op, the big lesson here is that rules and laws are valid and applicable even if you don't know about them. There's an old saying "ignorance is not a defense." This goes for any sort of punishable infraction. Your DD should have known better at this age. If she didn't, that's still on her, because the honor code is provided to all students and knowing what's in it is her responsibility. Frankly, better she learn now than in college when plagiarism can result in expulsion. It's not a joke. Now she knows. No words were twisted. Nobody was treated unfairly. She messed up and got punished. No further action by you is needed.

OP, did you grow up in the U.S.?

You've mentioned that things were different when you grew up, but I grew up in the U.S. and was taught from an early age that I was responsible for my own work and for making sure that others did not copy my work. I think it's pretty standard here.

OP here again. In rereading the earlier posts and replies, I think I found the answer to my questions that have been bugging me.

In 09:44 on P.1, I asked:

"..So is there a presumption that if B let A to see the homework, B is deemed to know that A would cheat? " and; "I want to know what is the path forward if that is the case, should I tell my kids to never let another kid see their HW before it is due?"

The majority of opinions here is a resounding yes to both. Some also mentioned that this is taught in an earlier grade. Without mentioning each post that communicated that answer, I want to express thanks.

I stand corrected.

Thanks to everyone who expressed his/her views in this thread. They have been very helpful.

I could see this happening to me in high school. If a slacker kid asked me to see my homework, I would have said no. I had friends whom I thought were hard workers and good students, and I may have let one of then see a copy of my homework if they were stuck on an assignment. Not because I expected them to copy it, but to give them an example. Based on the honor code, that would still be cheating, but I can see where OP's DD could honestly not have considered it cheating. Of course hindsight is 20/20.

OP here. No, I am not here to look for validation of my opinion, even though that may have been nice. I am here to ask for views and perspectives of others, given the facts. This forum is great because we have parents as well as faculty members.

If my opinion is wrong, I can change it.

Rest be assured that I have been reading, and rereading all the posts here to see if I have missed any message and views, and to build a better understanding.