Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 12:00     Subject: Re:Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:Make Dunbar, Coolidge or Roosevelt a test-in school and you'll see enroll go up.


Not enough kids to fill it.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:59     Subject: Re:Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Make Dunbar, Coolidge or Roosevelt a test-in school and you'll see enroll go up.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:53     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
The problem is that Murch was budgeted and designed for $68mil and only now, four months before shovels are supposed to be in the ground, is DGS saying it will cost $88mil. Murch is asking that the design which was developed over the course of two years be fully funded. Not a dime more.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:50     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is exhausting. Parents are to blame because they wrongly believe that anything new and shiny means the school is better. So they bitch non stop for new facilities and wow, the test scores still suck. You can renovate Cardozo, rebuild Dunbar and build a new brook land middle...guess what the test scores are abysmal, high SES parents won't send their kids there but yet everyone whines to spend more money or more new buildings.


I don't believe it will change test scores. But I'd like my kids (and ALL other kid in the city) to have decent facility because DECENCY.

How's that for a reason?

Or do you think poorly performing kids /schools should just be left in squalor?


NP - no one wants them in squalor but they are half empty. We need fewer schools. Give them to charters on 20-year leases.


That's the crust of every argument. Give the schools to charters. Frack those kids attending DCPS.


I think you mean crux.

No it's not. The idea is have the children in the under enrolled, failing schools have the opportunity to attend a renovated, fully enrolled school with more resources and effective DCPS administrators.

Let successful (Tier 1 only perhaps) charters compete for the chance to lease the empty buildings so that those students, who are also DC residents, have a decent educational experience.





Come on! You don't care about those kids. You just want the building for another charter school. Those kids in the DCPS would have little chance of getting into this now newly relocated facility. That charter would be filled with the charters existing students, followed by siblings and teachers kids. BTW, the buildings are not empty. They may not be filled to capacity, but they are not empty. The students sitting in their seats are not inanimate objects to be ignored.


Wrong. I live 4 blocks from Coolidge. It's had so many leadership changes and reboots everyone has lost count. The conditions those kids go to school in are appalling -- my child attended DCYOP there on Saturdays before they moved their program to Eastern.

No, the building isn't empty but more than half of it is blocked off an unhabitable. IMO those kids should be able to go to the new Roosevelt, which isn't that far away, and get a chance at a fresh start.

Turn the Coolidge building over to a charter, or make it the site for the new north middle school, which is also desperately needed. But the status quo isn't helping anyone.







Yes, dunbar is new and its at less than 50% capacity, same for coolidge and roosevelt. Why aren't we combining these? and there is Wilson which is overflowing with kids. HS kids do NOT need to attend school in their own neighborhoods. This is such a waste of money. Any school at 50% or less capacity should be put on notice that they will be colocated elsewhere or the principal better start knocking on doors to recruit families.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:46     Subject: Re:Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:Wait, the murch renovation already cost 88 million?

You know new York has built entire schools from scratch in new York city for less?

Seriously, I wouldn't give a dime more.


Well, that sounds like well-thought out and thoughtful reasoning.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:45     Subject: Re:Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Wait, the murch renovation already cost 88 million?

You know new York has built entire schools from scratch in new York city for less?

Seriously, I wouldn't give a dime more.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:07     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
It's been expressed earlier in this thread, but it's pretty much a known thing that the contractors and subcontractors and various other players who are in the know can basically charge 50-100% more for any project overseen by DGS. Murch/Capital City aren't quite an exact comparison because Murch will involved a lot of new construction and underground work, which is VERY expensive, but I am sure if a charter was doing the same amount of work at Murch the price tag would come in at something like $60 million instead of $88.


So what can be done to change this? Posting to this thread isn't likely to change anything. I think there was a Wa Po article about DGS and its mismanagement of the Ellington renovation funds a while back - has anything come of that? If the above is well-known, what can be done to change the bidding process and make contractors accountable?


What was done was putting DCPS in charge of the projects over DGS.

Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:07     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:IMO, as an Ellington grad, it deserves more money. It is 1 of the only truly functional, successful DCPS high schools. I graduated some years back with a class of 92. 90 of us went on to at least community college if not a 4-year-college. I am friends with many Ellington grads and we all have good jobs, often still in our majors or close to them. Several are teaching in DCPS or otherwise involved with city kids. It's an amazing place that could be grown into a real draw for DCPS as a whole with a renovated building.

When I was there the theater was regularly rented out to professional theater companies. We students were hired to help out behind stage.

From the backgrounds of a lot of kids I was there with, I would say that most of them would not have ended up at college or even in a career if they had not attended Ellington. We should all be celebrating the energy of the kids who attend school for nearly 2 more hours than the rest of DCPS and are often there late into the evening rehearsing and otherwise using the facility. Ellington's building was absolutely my second home the entire time I was there and I was one of the few students for whom my first home was a middle class one with relatively functional parents and food on the table.

I'm the proud parent of a future Ellington student and I am absolutely thrilled about the renovation. We are truly a family and whenever you meet an Ellington student, grad, or teacher anywhere around you are instant friends. Let's be glad that the city is investing in a school that produces graduates of whom DCPS can be proud.


Yeah, F those poor kids who are at schools with lower graduation rates. They don't deserve to have a nice facility. Let's just shit on them or send them to jail.

Nice compassion you learned there...


Not the poster you responded to but darn you are one angry person with reading comp issues. No where in PP post did she even intimate what you suggested. The other schools are all receiving gut makeovers, but a regular comprehensive school does not require the same infrastructure as a specialty school such as DE. DE requires multiple art, music, sound, theatre, and dance rooms in addition to the science, computer and other classes found in a regular school. Otherwise, why bother calling it a school for the gifted arts.

However, now that DC has invested so much money to improve the gifted arts students, it would be really nice if they focused greatly on providing a HS for STEM.


You're correct, if you believe that there's an infinite amount of money available. But if you live in the real world "it deserves more money" (PP's words) means that "others deserve less", which is exactly what our school is getting.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 11:05     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
It's been expressed earlier in this thread, but it's pretty much a known thing that the contractors and subcontractors and various other players who are in the know can basically charge 50-100% more for any project overseen by DGS. Murch/Capital City aren't quite an exact comparison because Murch will involved a lot of new construction and underground work, which is VERY expensive, but I am sure if a charter was doing the same amount of work at Murch the price tag would come in at something like $60 million instead of $88.


So what can be done to change this? Posting to this thread isn't likely to change anything. I think there was a Wa Po article about DGS and its mismanagement of the Ellington renovation funds a while back - has anything come of that? If the above is well-known, what can be done to change the bidding process and make contractors accountable?
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:58     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is exhausting. Parents are to blame because they wrongly believe that anything new and shiny means the school is better. So they bitch non stop for new facilities and wow, the test scores still suck. You can renovate Cardozo, rebuild Dunbar and build a new brook land middle...guess what the test scores are abysmal, high SES parents won't send their kids there but yet everyone whines to spend more money or more new buildings.


Ha! Like DCPS gives a #%^* about high SES parents or their kids.


+1,000
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:17     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is exhausting. Parents are to blame because they wrongly believe that anything new and shiny means the school is better. So they bitch non stop for new facilities and wow, the test scores still suck. You can renovate Cardozo, rebuild Dunbar and build a new brook land middle...guess what the test scores are abysmal, high SES parents won't send their kids there but yet everyone whines to spend more money or more new buildings.


I don't believe it will change test scores. But I'd like my kids (and ALL other kid in the city) to have decent facility because DECENCY.

How's that for a reason?

Or do you think poorly performing kids /schools should just be left in squalor?


So true about 'new and shiny'. DCPS needs to pragmatically address deficiencies rather than creating shrines. There are too many instance of extremes between modernized facilities like Dunbar and largely neglected facilities like Orr. The process needs to be data driven and not influenced by politics as it's been done to date. Independent auditors need to watch the process and most importantly the dough (Ellington is an affront to taxpayers above all). Planning needs to be equitable between schools serving the full public education spectrum.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:14     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Reasonable?


Nope, the Ellington costs are ridiculous.

But how about Capital City, as a charter example? $24 million for 1,000 students.


Interesting example since they hired the same builder DGS chose for Murch.

"Capital City invested more than $24 million in the city-owned facility through a state-of-the-art renovation. In addition to beautiful classroom spaces, the facility includes a multi-level library, four science labs, three computer labs, three art rooms, three music rooms, a black box theatre, a gymnasium, and fitness center. Seven acres of outdoor space include athletic fields, a garden, and two playgrounds."

MCN is also the builder at Murch and yet they want $88 million to give no science room, no computer lab, no fitness room, no garden, no black box theatre, one art room, one music room, not enough classrooms, a gym smaller than fire code requires for the school to gather together, a smaller than ed spec. library, and less than a acre left for play space.

Explain that. MCN needs to reexamine their heads and bid this project at budget. Enough of fleecing the city off the backs of little kids.


It's been expressed earlier in this thread, but it's pretty much a known thing that the contractors and subcontractors and various other players who are in the know can basically charge 50-100% more for any project overseen by DGS. Murch/Capital City aren't quite an exact comparison because Murch will involved a lot of new construction and underground work, which is VERY expensive, but I am sure if a charter was doing the same amount of work at Murch the price tag would come in at something like $60 million instead of $88.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:09     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At least Ellington is a school. Why is the city spending $55 million to build the Wizards a fancy practice facility?! It is ridiculous.


Yup. And people wonder why infrastructure is failing all across the c


Sorry! across the country. It's a lot easier and flashier to build things like stadiums and the like, which politicians get to go to all the time and take pictures at, versus basics like schools, roads, bridges, etc. Combine that with the incompetence of many agencies (DGS, looking at you!), and it's hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain every locally, and tens of billions nationally.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:08     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is exhausting. Parents are to blame because they wrongly believe that anything new and shiny means the school is better. So they bitch non stop for new facilities and wow, the test scores still suck. You can renovate Cardozo, rebuild Dunbar and build a new brook land middle...guess what the test scores are abysmal, high SES parents won't send their kids there but yet everyone whines to spend more money or more new buildings.


I don't believe it will change test scores. But I'd like my kids (and ALL other kid in the city) to have decent facility because DECENCY.

How's that for a reason?

Or do you think poorly performing kids /schools should just be left in squalor?


NP - no one wants them in squalor but they are half empty. We need fewer schools. Give them to charters on 20-year leases.


That's the crust of every argument. Give the schools to charters. Frack those kids attending DCPS.


I think you mean crux.

No it's not. The idea is have the children in the under enrolled, failing schools have the opportunity to attend a renovated, fully enrolled school with more resources and effective DCPS administrators.

Let successful (Tier 1 only perhaps) charters compete for the chance to lease the empty buildings so that those students, who are also DC residents, have a decent educational experience.





Come on! You don't care about those kids. You just want the building for another charter school. Those kids in the DCPS would have little chance of getting into this now newly relocated facility. That charter would be filled with the charters existing students, followed by siblings and teachers kids. BTW, the buildings are not empty. They may not be filled to capacity, but they are not empty. The students sitting in their seats are not inanimate objects to be ignored.


Wrong. I live 4 blocks from Coolidge. It's had so many leadership changes and reboots everyone has lost count. The conditions those kids go to school in are appalling -- my child attended DCYOP there on Saturdays before they moved their program to Eastern.

No, the building isn't empty but more than half of it is blocked off an unhabitable. IMO those kids should be able to go to the new Roosevelt, which isn't that far away, and get a chance at a fresh start.

Turn the Coolidge building over to a charter, or make it the site for the new north middle school, which is also desperately needed. But the status quo isn't helping anyone.





Anonymous
Post 02/25/2016 10:07     Subject: Ellington. $250 m for 600 students. Murch. $70 m for 700 students.
Anonymous wrote:At least Ellington is a school. Why is the city spending $55 million to build the Wizards a fancy practice facility?! It is ridiculous.


Yup. And people wonder why infrastructure is failing all across the c