Anonymous
02/29/2016 09:04
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Someone has read too many new age childrearing books...at what point does the child learn that he needs to respect, cooperate, etc. Life does not occur in a vacuum where only the needs of one mater. Children who never learn this and believe the world revolves around them grow up to be entitled, narcissistic, and obnoxious. Children's needs can be met, they can be respected, and they can have "hope" and still have manners and courtesy.Anonymous wrote:
I don't think being rude or a spoiled brat has anything to do with it.
Think about the exchange in terms of game strategy, OP. Your child chose to defect, rather than cooperate (PPs, replace "brat" with "defector" to understand my point). This is a presumably repeat-player scenario, meaning your child knows he will keep going to the dinner table, and will keep interacting with you and the ILs. So why was there so little incentive for him to cooperate among repeat players, especially since kids would like to do nothing more than receive positive attention of the adults that they are dependent on?
That's the real issue, and it's not going to be solved by yelling at him how rude he is being, or demanding he eat whatever is served to him, or ratcheting up the punishing consequences, like PPs have suggested you ought to do. You solve it by developing a relationship where he can trust that his needs will be known, respected, considered, and met often enough over time by caregivers, and therefore he becomes willing to cooperate in repeat player scenarios like this one, especially if it's important to you. The alternative to that is giving up that hope, defecting to try to meet whatever his current need is in whatever (usually sub-optimal) way he is capable of, and incurring whatever consequences may come of that defection, including being yelled at or punished.
My childhood was lived that second way, but it had nothing to do with being spoiled -- it's the opposite of spoiled, actually.
Anonymous
02/28/2016 15:24
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You actually let your hild go fix himself something he "liked" after an adult prepared a full dinner?
You honestly think that was ok?
Not OP, but I allow my kids to do this and I 100% think it's okay. If my kids don't like dinner, they are free to make a sandwich and eat it with a piece of fruit. I am not doing it for them, but I don't make them eat what I have prepared.
It's a rule at our house that the kids have to try anything new, and they have to be polite when they decline to eat it, but they don't have to eat stuff they don't like. That is freakishly controlling.
Not every person cares for the same foods. People should not be forced to eat things that they don't enjoy. Food should be a pleasure, not a punishment, and people should have control over what they put in their own bodies.
This is too sane and reasonable. The DCUMers will never go for it.
How do you handle it when you aren't at home?
I'm thinking of implementing a similar system with my kids, but I don't want it to be an issue when we eat out. Do you pack things they like? Ask hosts to provide certain dishes?
Eat what you are served or go without. We will get something when we get home.
Anonymous
02/28/2016 15:16
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
7 is too old to behave that way! How disrespectful to everyone else at the table... OP, what have you instructed him to do at a friend's house when they serve something he doesn't care to eat? Wow...
I would have given him a sandwich in the kitchen later, but I would have expected him to sit at the table with a polite "no thank you" (and he could have nibbled on a side that was available at the table, I'm sure).
I would have given him a sandwich in the kitchen later, but I would have expected him to sit at the table with a polite "no thank you" (and he could have nibbled on a side that was available at the table, I'm sure).
Anonymous
02/28/2016 14:55
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Somehow, I doubt his bad behavior is occasional but is constant.
+1 Sounds like a brat to me.
Anonymous
02/27/2016 22:24
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
I'm sorry, OP, but if you're youngest is 7, you don't have "three young children". By 7, a child is old enough to have good manners and not be disruptive when guests are present.
That said, I guess what is missing here is how your child, and you, handled the situation. If you have a policy in your house that allows a kid to make their own sandwich and opt out of the main dinner (and honestly, I think this is a pretty good idea in general), then I would expect the child to make the decision as dinner is being finished and before everyone is at the table. If that isn't possible and the kid realizes they won't eat what is being put out, then, as the dinner begins, the kid can quietly excuse himself and go make a sandwich while the dinner commences. As long as he does it quietly and independently and doesn't disrupt the meal, no problem.
However, if the kid makes a big deal about hating the meal after everyone is seated and the meal must come to a halt while he goes to make something he "liked" and if that takes a long time because maybe mom has to help him and the whole table is disrupted by this, then, yes, I would find his behavior rude and your parenting skills lacking.
Of course, as a guest in your home, I would never give you any indication I was annoyed by your kid's behavior. I would be gracious and patient, because to act otherwise would make me as rude as your kid. So, you'd never know it, but I would judge and have reservations about asking you all over to my house for dinner. (I would *not* have reservations if your kid was kind, subtle, and gracious about asking for a sandwich instead of the dinner I prepared.) Whether it's rude or not is all in the delivery.
For the record, I'm 43, so I'm not a MIL with grown kids who forgot what kids are like.
That said, I guess what is missing here is how your child, and you, handled the situation. If you have a policy in your house that allows a kid to make their own sandwich and opt out of the main dinner (and honestly, I think this is a pretty good idea in general), then I would expect the child to make the decision as dinner is being finished and before everyone is at the table. If that isn't possible and the kid realizes they won't eat what is being put out, then, as the dinner begins, the kid can quietly excuse himself and go make a sandwich while the dinner commences. As long as he does it quietly and independently and doesn't disrupt the meal, no problem.
However, if the kid makes a big deal about hating the meal after everyone is seated and the meal must come to a halt while he goes to make something he "liked" and if that takes a long time because maybe mom has to help him and the whole table is disrupted by this, then, yes, I would find his behavior rude and your parenting skills lacking.
Of course, as a guest in your home, I would never give you any indication I was annoyed by your kid's behavior. I would be gracious and patient, because to act otherwise would make me as rude as your kid. So, you'd never know it, but I would judge and have reservations about asking you all over to my house for dinner. (I would *not* have reservations if your kid was kind, subtle, and gracious about asking for a sandwich instead of the dinner I prepared.) Whether it's rude or not is all in the delivery.
For the record, I'm 43, so I'm not a MIL with grown kids who forgot what kids are like.
Anonymous
02/26/2016 22:47
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
OP, my parents sometimes clearly seethe at my kids behavior. For example, before dinner, if my kid is very hungry, he can sometimes act up. It is clear to me that my parents want me to punish him--to yell, to spank him, or threaten, all the crappy shit they did. Well, I don't. I focus on fixing the problem (his hunger) by feeding him as quickly as possible. Later on I'll talk about his behavior with him. In his state of emotional turmoil/hunger he is not in a state to learn or discuss anything.
I have a relationship with my kid that my parents can only imagine. My child is not scared of me. We are very close. I don't he will ever lie to me the way I used to routinely lie to my parents. We have standards--don't hurt other people, don't be rude, respect other people and their things. But we are very casual. I am fine with him fixing himself something else to eat during a regular old family dinner.
Just totally ignore your in-laws. Just totally ignore them and parent the way you feel is right for your kid. They are rude to mutter but it would be rude for you as host to call them out on their rudeness. It may drive you crazy but enjoy the fact that all they can do is mutter and that you, actually, are your child's parent and know what is best for him.
I have a relationship with my kid that my parents can only imagine. My child is not scared of me. We are very close. I don't he will ever lie to me the way I used to routinely lie to my parents. We have standards--don't hurt other people, don't be rude, respect other people and their things. But we are very casual. I am fine with him fixing himself something else to eat during a regular old family dinner.
Just totally ignore your in-laws. Just totally ignore them and parent the way you feel is right for your kid. They are rude to mutter but it would be rude for you as host to call them out on their rudeness. It may drive you crazy but enjoy the fact that all they can do is mutter and that you, actually, are your child's parent and know what is best for him.
Anonymous
02/26/2016 20:42
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You actually let your hild go fix himself something he "liked" after an adult prepared a full dinner?
You honestly think that was ok?
Not OP, but I allow my kids to do this and I 100% think it's okay. If my kids don't like dinner, they are free to make a sandwich and eat it with a piece of fruit. I am not doing it for them, but I don't make them eat what I have prepared.
It's a rule at our house that the kids have to try anything new, and they have to be polite when they decline to eat it, but they don't have to eat stuff they don't like. That is freakishly controlling.
Not every person cares for the same foods. People should not be forced to eat things that they don't enjoy. Food should be a pleasure, not a punishment, and people should have control over what they put in their own bodies.
This is too sane and reasonable. The DCUMers will never go for it.
+1. I don't see how the behavior was that rude. Once the kid found out the food, he went and made something else - himself. I would never make my kid eat food he didn't like. That's settimg them up to have food issues later in life. My parents rarely served me vegetables as a kid. That's because their parents forced them to eat vegetables as kids. They never ate them as adults.
The kid made the alternate meal himself. Should he have sat there and watched everyone else eat? Isn't it rude to eat in front of others before they have their meal? If this was an informal family dinner, what's the big deal with the rest of the family starting why the kid was making his plate.
Anonymous
02/26/2016 19:42
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
I don't think being rude or a spoiled brat has anything to do with it.
Think about the exchange in terms of game strategy, OP. Your child chose to defect, rather than cooperate (PPs, replace "brat" with "defector" to understand my point). This is a presumably repeat-player scenario, meaning your child knows he will keep going to the dinner table, and will keep interacting with you and the ILs. So why was there so little incentive for him to cooperate among repeat players, especially since kids would like to do nothing more than receive positive attention of the adults that they are dependent on?
That's the real issue, and it's not going to be solved by yelling at him how rude he is being, or demanding he eat whatever is served to him, or ratcheting up the punishing consequences, like PPs have suggested you ought to do. You solve it by developing a relationship where he can trust that his needs will be known, respected, considered, and met often enough over time by caregivers, and therefore he becomes willing to cooperate in repeat player scenarios like this one, especially if it's important to you. The alternative to that is giving up that hope, defecting to try to meet whatever his current need is in whatever (usually sub-optimal) way he is capable of, and incurring whatever consequences may come of that defection, including being yelled at or punished.
My childhood was lived that second way, but it had nothing to do with being spoiled -- it's the opposite of spoiled, actually.
Anonymous
02/26/2016 16:51
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You actually let your hild go fix himself something he "liked" after an adult prepared a full dinner?
You honestly think that was ok?
Not OP, but I allow my kids to do this and I 100% think it's okay. If my kids don't like dinner, they are free to make a sandwich and eat it with a piece of fruit. I am not doing it for them, but I don't make them eat what I have prepared.
It's a rule at our house that the kids have to try anything new, and they have to be polite when they decline to eat it, but they don't have to eat stuff they don't like. That is freakishly controlling.
Not every person cares for the same foods. People should not be forced to eat things that they don't enjoy. Food should be a pleasure, not a punishment, and people should have control over what they put in their own bodies.
This is too sane and reasonable. The DCUMers will never go for it.
How do you handle it when you aren't at home?
I'm thinking of implementing a similar system with my kids, but I don't want it to be an issue when we eat out. Do you pack things they like? Ask hosts to provide certain dishes?
Are you serious? Teach your kids to politely decline at someone's home. Are you going to ask people to provide your kids with chicken nuggets?
He sharing of food is an important social custom and understood contract. Learning how to be a gracious guest is an important skill. Because something your host is serving isn't something you "like" is no excuse to miss the essence of being gracious and polite. I've known this since I was probably 4, and could act accordingly. I've eaten hundreds of meals that I didn't "like" that have not killed me, nor did they kill me as a child.
I know this goes against the prevailing precious snowflake direction on this board, but there is no reason a 7 year old cannot learn to have a sit down dinner with guests and learn to eat what is there, despite his like or dislike for it. Had I been there, I would have rolled my eyes too.
Hey - you want to let yr 7 year old run the show at dinner most nights - well, you be you. But he should also learn what it is do have a sit down dinner with guests (even if they are family) and to engage in participating in the meal that is served, even if it does not serve best to his 7 year old preferences.
Anonymous
02/26/2016 15:43
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You actually let your hild go fix himself something he "liked" after an adult prepared a full dinner?
You honestly think that was ok?
Not OP, but I allow my kids to do this and I 100% think it's okay. If my kids don't like dinner, they are free to make a sandwich and eat it with a piece of fruit. I am not doing it for them, but I don't make them eat what I have prepared.
It's a rule at our house that the kids have to try anything new, and they have to be polite when they decline to eat it, but they don't have to eat stuff they don't like. That is freakishly controlling.
Not every person cares for the same foods. People should not be forced to eat things that they don't enjoy. Food should be a pleasure, not a punishment, and people should have control over what they put in their own bodies.
This is too sane and reasonable. The DCUMers will never go for it.
How do you handle it when you aren't at home?
I'm thinking of implementing a similar system with my kids, but I don't want it to be an issue when we eat out. Do you pack things they like? Ask hosts to provide certain dishes?
Are you serious? Teach your kids to politely decline at someone's home. Are you going to ask people to provide your kids with chicken nuggets?
Anonymous
02/25/2016 22:32
Subject: Re:ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You actually let your hild go fix himself something he "liked" after an adult prepared a full dinner?
You honestly think that was ok?
Not OP, but I allow my kids to do this and I 100% think it's okay. If my kids don't like dinner, they are free to make a sandwich and eat it with a piece of fruit. I am not doing it for them, but I don't make them eat what I have prepared.
It's a rule at our house that the kids have to try anything new, and they have to be polite when they decline to eat it, but they don't have to eat stuff they don't like. That is freakishly controlling.
Not every person cares for the same foods. People should not be forced to eat things that they don't enjoy. Food should be a pleasure, not a punishment, and people should have control over what they put in their own bodies.
This is too sane and reasonable. The DCUMers will never go for it.
How do you handle it when you aren't at home?
I'm thinking of implementing a similar system with my kids, but I don't want it to be an issue when we eat out. Do you pack things they like? Ask hosts to provide certain dishes?
Anonymous
02/25/2016 19:37
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:They are old and forget what it was really like. They only remember the days they got right and forget their own parenting fails (or reinterpret their parenting fails as "the right way to raise kids." It's human nature to rewrite history to make yourself look good.
I think the rewriting history part of this post is true, but I also think a 7 year old should have table manners that are basically the same as an adult's. My 7 yo does and I don't think there's anything special about it. We're not talking about a 4 yo in OPs scenario.
OP - it's possible your ILs are seething for a reason. Namely that you don't realize how rude your DS is.
Anonymous
02/25/2016 17:21
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Somehow, I doubt his bad behavior is occasional but is constant.
Anonymous
02/25/2016 14:00
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They're entitled to their opinions about what the are observing. They are right or wrong or just have a different opinion than you. But you should think about why this bothers you so much when they're not confronting you about it. Maybe their judgment and disapproval bother you bc part of you feels the same way. You may even be projecting some things on to them. Raise your children hoe you feel is sincerely best. IF you do that, others' opinions will not bother you.
You don't criticize people who are hosting you. Period.
When did they criticize?
With looks and whispers, they were passive aggressively ariticizing both the kid and the parents.
So they got annoyed and reacted without making it your problem. You are not being forced to address it.
Anonymous
02/25/2016 13:58
Subject: ILs seethe at our son's occasional bad behavior.
I was initially with you, OP, but as I thought about it -- I think the in laws have a right to express annoyance here, if the scene with your son annoyed them. It's no big deal. He'll see it, probably, and may be less inclined to disturb dinner next time if their annoyance bothers him. I don't know whether you're right about them "seething" -- I can just imagine thinking to myself "ugh, just stop, sit down and let's eat" and using some eye rolls etc. with my nieces and nephews. Kids are constantly doing obnoxious stuff and they should sometimes see that it's making people crazy.
Note that I'm the mother of two young kids who frequently do annoying things.
Note that I'm the mother of two young kids who frequently do annoying things.