Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:42     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:So how to determine who's comfortableness trumps? He is uncomfortable interacting with women without using respectful phrase and the women are uncomfortable with him being respectful... who must be made uncomfortable in order to make the other party happy? Does the principle of equity apply? In other words, who is most capable of incurring the loss of comfort? That person should be the one to absorb to discomfort? Are the women saying that he must change because it is too much for them the bare? While most may not realize it, if that is what is really being concluded this is an anti-feminist position because it means that women require men to make them comfortable.


Doesn't the fact that everyone at the agency calls each other by their first name indicate which experience should trump?
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:36     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:There is a new hire at my agency and he's referring to every female colleague and female executive as "Ma'am" in lieu of her first name. We are very much a first name agency and people titter when he did this the first couple of times but it has become stale (he does it on email too) and it's bothering me on a lot of levels. It creates an artificial distance with female employees and to me it's an artificial politeness that doesn't reflect modern working relationships in DC. I also think he's shooting himself in the foot with agency clients.

How can I point this out to him? We are part of a top level small working group that services the rest of the agency.


Why don't you just talk to him? The military has a different culture and he needs mentoring and guidance about the new culture he working in. He believes he is being respectful and is practicing what he was taught in the military because in the military, because this is a sign of respect. Just explain to him that in your agency, calling each other by first names is acceptable. He may be uncomfortable at first, but eventually will adapt.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:29     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:So how to determine who's comfortableness trumps? He is uncomfortable interacting with women without using respectful phrase and the women are uncomfortable with him being respectful... who must be made uncomfortable in order to make the other party happy? Does the principle of equity apply? In other words, who is most capable of incurring the loss of comfort? That person should be the one to absorb to discomfort? Are the women saying that he must change because it is too much for them the bare? While most may not realize it, if that is what is really being concluded this is an anti-feminist position because it means that women require men to make them comfortable.

You have got to past this idea that it's respectful when it isn't wanted. If I told you it was respectful in my culture to call you...think of some word that you find offensive....would you think I still had a right to say it?
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:27     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Could be worse. An ex military guy at my office years ago referred to women there as, "m'lady."


I call complete and utter bullshit on this.


You, uh, call wrong then. I was there as an eye and ear witness. It stopped after a period.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:26     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:ps: when reading the OP's original message again, maybe it would be helpful to the new hire to take him out to coffee or something and talk to him about the agency culture. I've had to do this myself, with new hires, just to help them out.


Just let him hold the door for you and pay for the coffee.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:25     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:Could be worse. An ex military guy at my office years ago referred to women there as, "m'lady."


I call complete and utter bullshit on this.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:24     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Could be worse. An ex military guy at my office years ago referred to women there as, "m'lady."
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:17     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Why make a mountain out of a mole hill? You don't have to get into the idea that he is jeopardizing his career, agency culture, etc.

Just have a conversation with him. Ask him, not "confront him", why he refers to the women as ma'am but does not "sir" the men? He might not even be aware that he's doing it so strictly along gender lines, or he might have some answer. Listen to it. Then explain why the treatment that differs among genders is viewed as off putting by many and see what he has to say. This doesn't have to be a huge to-do, just a conversation.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 13:08     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I think the guy is an asshole.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 12:39     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
ps: when reading the OP's original message again, maybe it would be helpful to the new hire to take him out to coffee or something and talk to him about the agency culture. I've had to do this myself, with new hires, just to help them out.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 12:37     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I am a woman who does not mind, and actually likes, the use of the word Ma'am. I use Ma'am and Sir myself, and think it is polite.

However, if this was my coworker and he calls our other coworker "Bob" by his name every day and calls me "Ma'am" everyday instead of "Beth" I would think it was very strange and assume he does have a problem dealing with women on a one to one basis. If this was the only problem I had with him, I would let it slide.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 12:35     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
I would have a male superior (if there is one) give him helpful feedback and say that in this environment, we prefer that you address women by their names and not by ma'am. Although this may be the custom in the military world, it's not the culture in this office.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 12:33     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
So how to determine who's comfortableness trumps? He is uncomfortable interacting with women without using respectful phrase and the women are uncomfortable with him being respectful... who must be made uncomfortable in order to make the other party happy? Does the principle of equity apply? In other words, who is most capable of incurring the loss of comfort? That person should be the one to absorb to discomfort? Are the women saying that he must change because it is too much for them the bare? While most may not realize it, if that is what is really being concluded this is an anti-feminist position because it means that women require men to make them comfortable.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:49     Subject: Re:Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:Why can't people understand that what is disturbing is that the male colleague has no problem remembering and addressing other men as individuals but treats all the women as an indistinguishable mob? That is denigrating.


Exactly, I can't believe people are understanding this. Men get their names used, but women all have the same one? Not ok.
Anonymous
Post 02/10/2016 11:48     Subject: Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think it reflects his discomfort with the females.


As OP is clearly uncomfortable with ex-military. However, if this could in fact possibly harm him at your office, then someone should bring it up to him for his own benefit and for the comfort of the NOW set.


You don't have to be uncomfortable with ex-military to not like this. I'm married to an Army officer, and I think OP's coworker is a sexist jerk.