Anonymous wrote:Don't give it back if that's going to create a fuss, but I think it's fine to say that you'll hold on to it for a year until she is 12. Especially if your ex and you agreed on no iphones for now, why wouldn't he back you?

She and ex husband agreed the first phone would be a basic, no internet text only phone, no smart phones.

Either give it back to tell him you will hold onto it until 8th grade.

Did you see if Pap is on any sex offender registries, OP?

Anonymous wrote:I like most of the advice here, and I think your pediatrician gave you great advice.

But, you NEED to talk to your ex about this. You don't have to accuse him of anything (he didn't do anything wrong yet) but you need to be on the same page about the phone. And he needs to know that you are serious about DD not being left alone with Pap. He needs to be told that you are freaked out by the extravagant gift without permission (maybe ask if he gave permission to start that off), and the subsequent text message, let him know that DD will not have access to the phone at your house (my ex bought my then 3yo an iPad. It lives at dads house 4 years later and isn't allowed in my house - I almost started WWIII over it).

If you can have this conversation in a respectful way (away from almost stepmom) you might get him on board. And stand your ground. Men don't have the same experiences most of the time as women do, so you may need to end with, "I know this is uncomfortable for you to think about, but I will send you some information about the cycles of abuse and how abusers start grooming their victims because it's almost always someone the family trusts and who knows the victim very well."

I'm assuming of course that your ex is a decent human who you divorced because it didn't work out, if he's an abuser then ignore that advice.

But if he's decent you HAVE to engage him in this conversation. He needs to know how you feel about it so that he can keep his child safe. And also because he will be the one supervising DD and Pap.

Agreed. This is so much beyond the phone as a gift or whatever. By sidestepping the issue and blaming radiation, you are missing the chance to let your ex know you have SERIOUS concerns that he needs to be on board with.

I'm the PP with the advice for the safety expert, and want to say great advice by some PPs.

I want to mention one other thing, and that is, if Pap's intentions are not benevolent, then he will *create* a situation where DD will want to be alone with him. So, for example, he will find out what movie DD wants to see desperately, then rent it and send ex-DH out for pizza. In an earlier post, I mentioned this scenario where DD just has to suck it up and go with her dad, but what I failed to mention is that scenarios like these will not come by accident--they will be set up. So you need to *inoculate* your DD by discussing set-ups like this where she will really want to go with Pap or be with Pap due to what fabulous plan he has created, but that is the time to not go with him. Basically, the point being that he will find what she loves, and then bait her.

I am also really unhappy to see that Pap's ex-wife sexualizes little girls. Not sure from your prior post but was she the reason your DD got her ears pierced? yikes, that's huge, OP, not just a t-shirt that can be tossed. Anyways if Pap is a pedophile, it's more likely than the norm that he married someone whose been abused and so also doesn't get boundaries or the idea that girls should not be sexualized; basically, a healthy woman would not end up with Pap in the first place. So to me, her behavior backs up my concern about Pap.

You got some good ideas from this board, OP. Don't let anyone tell you, or your DD, to not follow your gut. There will ALWAYS be an innocent explanation for everything proposed and done. You have to look past that and take the harder road.

I like most of the advice here, and I think your pediatrician gave you great advice.

But, you NEED to talk to your ex about this. You don't have to accuse him of anything (he didn't do anything wrong yet) but you need to be on the same page about the phone. And he needs to know that you are serious about DD not being left alone with Pap. He needs to be told that you are freaked out by the extravagant gift without permission (maybe ask if he gave permission to start that off), and the subsequent text message, let him know that DD will not have access to the phone at your house (my ex bought my then 3yo an iPad. It lives at dads house 4 years later and isn't allowed in my house - I almost started WWIII over it).

If you can have this conversation in a respectful way (away from almost stepmom) you might get him on board. And stand your ground. Men don't have the same experiences most of the time as women do, so you may need to end with, "I know this is uncomfortable for you to think about, but I will send you some information about the cycles of abuse and how abusers start grooming their victims because it's almost always someone the family trusts and who knows the victim very well."

I'm assuming of course that your ex is a decent human who you divorced because it didn't work out, if he's an abuser then ignore that advice.

But if he's decent you HAVE to engage him in this conversation. He needs to know how you feel about it so that he can keep his child safe. And also because he will be the one supervising DD and Pap.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I slept very poorly over this and called our pediatrician this morning. She was very concerned. She can't really intervene without any evidence of molestation or emotional harm. However, she suggested I make her the "bad guy" when I talk to my ex-husband. She said that she advises her patients have no more than 14 hours screen time a week and to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation by keeping devices away from kids when not in use. She said that she would support me if I told dad that we should wait until June as we originally discussed and that the phone should be a much cheaper phone that also omits less radiation like a Samsung Impression.
I haven't had that conversation with him yet. I did ask DD about her interactions with "Pap" and his ex-wife. I found it interesting that the step-grandmother to be asked DD to call her "Larla", not some variation of "Grandma". DD also said that she has never been alone with "Pap". It seems like he has invited her to do things alone like get ice cream, but the whole family went instead. I told her that it would always be a good idea if everyone went together.

So there are no other kids in GF's house?

No. His fiancee didn't have kids before they met. They have been TTC pretty much since they got engaged.

Do you have your custody agreement in place yet? Make sure you include a "right of first refusal" - if DH decides to get a sitter, he has to give you first option to watch your child yourself. You don't want Paps volunteering to babysit.

Other people on this board have put in things about where the child sleeps. I.e., child must have own bedroom. See if you can add in something about no sleeping in other places without your permission.

Imagine if they go on a trip to disney world or something and Paps ends up in her hotel room. Shudder.

And before everyone goes crazy, you *can* put all kinds of stuff in a PSA (property and custody agreement); whether or not you can enforce it is a different story. I have all kinds of stuff in my PSA - no smoking around child,, no unrelated males sleeping in the home, no paramours (i.e. he can't hook up with the kid in the house).

Thanks. We have a pretty detailed custody agreement that includes right of first refusal and a morality clause, but we haven't been following it. I hadn't even thought about the risk of a hotel room, but that's definitely something I will address ASAP.

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it isn't grooming by "Pap", but it just feels really wrong to me. I feel like the gift of an iPhone is not just extravagant, but a way of sidestepping communicating with DD through her parents. We both have cell phones and landlines that he could contact her through. The only thing I can figure he can do through a cell phone of her own that he can't do through our phones is Snapchat.

20:47 that is a great idea, thanks! Right now, the phone is powered down and in my purse. I will look into how I can set controls on it. Her email address already automatically forwards any incoming mail to my and ex-husband's own email accounts. Maybe I can do the same with text messages?

That was my initial feeling, too...that the gifted phone was the perfect way to communicate with her privately. If I were you, I would go as far as texting him back with something like "this is DD's mother. She will not have access to this phone in my house. She will talk to you next time she sees you." Let him know EXACTLY where that boundary is...and that you've got your eye on him. Any potential "grooming" will likely stop right there. Predators (not saying he is one, but like you said...blood running cold) thrive on those little loopholes where they know no one is watching.

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Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut. It is inappropriate for a near-stranger to shower that much attention/affection on a child. Discuss with your ex that you do not want her alone with this man. Done.

In what way will it be done?

All this will do is create drama, anger, and hysteria during the lead up to the ex's wedding and serve as a sideshow detracting from the couple. But that's what OP wants.

You're right! Better to let a child be sexually molested than stir the pot. And millions implicitly agree!

And you're right! Because a gift of cell phone is absolutely evidence of molestation here, especially given the fact that OP's daughter is ELEVEN years old, verbal and has communication skills

Please go back to your reading of Gift of Mindless Fear and trusting your gut.

Not PP, but to argue that if a child is "verbal and has communication skills" then they are not able to be molested is fucking crazy. I don't think Pap is a molester either, but I don't understand why you're lobbying so hard against the idea of this girl not being left alone with him.

I never argued that good communication skills is some kind of protection from molestation. I simply said that there's no evidence that this child HAS BEEN molested, most importantly any evidence of her communicating that fact.

NP with a history of childhood sexual abuse (including grooming). Being able to communicate that one has been molested does not mean that one does. I didn't tell anyone of my abuse until I was 28, and it happened when I was nine. Please educate yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I slept very poorly over this and called our pediatrician this morning. She was very concerned. She can't really intervene without any evidence of molestation or emotional harm. However, she suggested I make her the "bad guy" when I talk to my ex-husband. She said that she advises her patients have no more than 14 hours screen time a week and to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation by keeping devices away from kids when not in use. She said that she would support me if I told dad that we should wait until June as we originally discussed and that the phone should be a much cheaper phone that also omits less radiation like a Samsung Impression.
I haven't had that conversation with him yet. I did ask DD about her interactions with "Pap" and his ex-wife. I found it interesting that the step-grandmother to be asked DD to call her "Larla", not some variation of "Grandma". DD also said that she has never been alone with "Pap". It seems like he has invited her to do things alone like get ice cream, but the whole family went instead. I told her that it would always be a good idea if everyone went together.

So there are no other kids in GF's house?

No. His fiancee didn't have kids before they met. They have been TTC pretty much since they got engaged.

Do you have your custody agreement in place yet? Make sure you include a "right of first refusal" - if DH decides to get a sitter, he has to give you first option to watch your child yourself. You don't want Paps volunteering to babysit.

Other people on this board have put in things about where the child sleeps. I.e., child must have own bedroom. See if you can add in something about no sleeping in other places without your permission.

Imagine if they go on a trip to disney world or something and Paps ends up in her hotel room. Shudder.

And before everyone goes crazy, you *can* put all kinds of stuff in a PSA (property and custody agreement); whether or not you can enforce it is a different story. I have all kinds of stuff in my PSA - no smoking around child,, no unrelated males sleeping in the home, no paramours (i.e. he can't hook up with the kid in the house).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I slept very poorly over this and called our pediatrician this morning. She was very concerned. She can't really intervene without any evidence of molestation or emotional harm. However, she suggested I make her the "bad guy" when I talk to my ex-husband. She said that she advises her patients have no more than 14 hours screen time a week and to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation by keeping devices away from kids when not in use. She said that she would support me if I told dad that we should wait until June as we originally discussed and that the phone should be a much cheaper phone that also omits less radiation like a Samsung Impression.
I haven't had that conversation with him yet. I did ask DD about her interactions with "Pap" and his ex-wife. I found it interesting that the step-grandmother to be asked DD to call her "Larla", not some variation of "Grandma". DD also said that she has never been alone with "Pap". It seems like he has invited her to do things alone like get ice cream, but the whole family went instead. I told her that it would always be a good idea if everyone went together.

So there are no other kids in GF's house?

No. His fiancee didn't have kids before they met. They have been TTC pretty much since they got engaged.

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I slept very poorly over this and called our pediatrician this morning. She was very concerned. She can't really intervene without any evidence of molestation or emotional harm. However, she suggested I make her the "bad guy" when I talk to my ex-husband. She said that she advises her patients have no more than 14 hours screen time a week and to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation by keeping devices away from kids when not in use. She said that she would support me if I told dad that we should wait until June as we originally discussed and that the phone should be a much cheaper phone that also omits less radiation like a Samsung Impression.
I haven't had that conversation with him yet. I did ask DD about her interactions with "Pap" and his ex-wife. I found it interesting that the step-grandmother to be asked DD to call her "Larla", not some variation of "Grandma". DD also said that she has never been alone with "Pap". It seems like he has invited her to do things alone like get ice cream, but the whole family went instead. I told her that it would always be a good idea if everyone went together.

So there are no other kids in GF's house?

No offense but you need to read The Gift of Fear and NOT be afraid to say you aren't letting her have the phone because Pap's behavior is inappropriate and crosses too many boundaries. The radiation thing makes you sound crazy, TBH. Stick with the truth and don't be embarrassed to protect your kid/ this dude is out of line. Don't hide behind a radiation story. Hold your head up and say no man is going to text my daughter calling her baby girl.

Women worry too much about hurting a predators feelings.

Thanks all. I slept very poorly over this and called our pediatrician this morning. She was very concerned. She can't really intervene without any evidence of molestation or emotional harm. However, she suggested I make her the "bad guy" when I talk to my ex-husband. She said that she advises her patients have no more than 14 hours screen time a week and to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation by keeping devices away from kids when not in use. She said that she would support me if I told dad that we should wait until June as we originally discussed and that the phone should be a much cheaper phone that also omits less radiation like a Samsung Impression.
I haven't had that conversation with him yet. I did ask DD about her interactions with "Pap" and his ex-wife. I found it interesting that the step-grandmother to be asked DD to call her "Larla", not some variation of "Grandma". DD also said that she has never been alone with "Pap". It seems like he has invited her to do things alone like get ice cream, but the whole family went instead. I told her that it would always be a good idea if everyone went together.

Trust your gut, OP. I cannot imagine calling any 11 year old I have not known for A LONG TIME "baby girl". Let Pap know you are watching him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read your post to my 12yo dd. she said Pap's actions are suspicious.

FYI she has four grandfathers/step grandpas. Not one of them texts her. Ever.

My 10 yr old has 3 grandfathers--they ALL text him. Not sure that in and of itself means anything other than that they are either not close, or not into texting. Or vice versa in our case. Your DD is clearly not used to being texted, so of course it seems odd, especially if she read any of the responses here.

Presumably 2 of those if not all 3 are biological grandparents and have known your son all of his life. That's an established family relationship. It's also men texting a boy and I realize boys can be victims of sexual abuse and grooming as well but mothers of daughters have to be extra vigilant particularly as this guy IS NOT FAMILY. He's a girlfriend's dad. Screw him for doing anything to make this mother uncomfortable.