Anonymous wrote:Sorry, PP, that's a tough situation.

Thanks. I'm not despairing yet. If it doesn't change in a couple of years, I'll despair. I'm bummed, but...what are you going to do? I'm not faking it, but I just cannot see these people who think it's OK to call someone fat (or bald or short) as if it wasn't a pejorative. Most of the women I know who lost the pregnancy weight did so in the first 6-12 months. I guess I may have to have weight watchers for dinners for a while.

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Anonymous wrote:To the DH with the overweight wife, have you ever asked your wife, after she complains about her weight, if there's anything you could do to make it easier for her? If my dh said that to me, I'd take him up on it in a second - I'd love to be able to take a walk or jump on the treadmill while he handles some evening kid duties, or have him do the morning routine, etc., etc.

I am already the primary parent and handle the majority of the child care (morning and evening duty), all of the cooking, most of the laundry and housekeeping. My DW has a relatively stressful job, a long commute and when she gets "downtime" she prefers to collapse on the couch and watch TV. I don't begrudge this at all, but I also know that if I took our son even that little bit more, she would not choose to spend that time working out. I am not about to start "nagging" her to work out.

When I have asked, her answer is generally "stop cooking" but when she cooks, she makes giant carbfests which are not weight losers for her, and they are weight gainers for me. I am reducing portion size, which is her other big complaint. However, she tends to eat a lot of junk during the day...and I'm not getting into policing an adult's food intake.

Sorry, PP, that's a tough situation.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fat, and I say that as a neutral descriptor. I'm not denigrating myself. I carry a lot of adipose tissue. So I'm fat. I could hear my husband saying, "My wife is fat, and I love her a lot" and it wouldn't be in the slightest bit hurtful because it is true and he's not insulting me or denigrating me.

So, you are fat, and your husband called you fat. The question is, did he say it in a hurtful way? Did he say it to be mean? Was his tone derisive? What was the context?

There's nothing inherently wrong with being called fat, but there is something wrong with a person being intentionally mean - what actually happened?

This sounds great in theory, but in reality the term "fat" is not a neutral adjective for the vast majority of people. And using that term is mean.

I totally agree. Come ON, pp. It's great that you're confident but objectively calling someone fat, whether they are or not, is unkind. As is calling someone stupid, ugly, etc.

I used to be heavier. Not sure how we are defining "fat" - I do agree with PP that if you're 140 and were 130 before kids, it's different than if you're 250 lbs (the former would indicate that he's controlling and abusive, the second potentially that he's unkind/frustrated/etc). When I was heavy, I knew it. My husband knew it. He would never have said it, but Id never have called myself fat and expected him to disagree, either. I started working out a lot and eating better and I've lost a bunch (could still stand to use a bit, but am normal BMI now) and I know he appreciates it but bottom line - I did it for myself, not for him.

Sorry that you have such loathing for the shape your body used to be, but "fat" is NOT akin to "stupid" and "ugly". Fat is just a size, just like tall or short. It is a description. It is sad that some people use it as a pejorative, but it is not inherently pejorative. (Don't even get me started about how moderate fatness is actually highly correlated to better health outcomes and longevity.) Anyway, it's really, really sad that you equate your former size to being stupid and ugly. And I feel sorry for all the fat people in the world to whom you automatically attach negative associations.

"Fat" is not inherently unkind. Please stop teaching your kids that it is. Without all the unnecessary hatred associated with the label, perhaps more fat people would love the bodies they are in and treat them with love and kindness -- which may result in better nutrition, exercise, and self-care in general.

So you don't see the word "fat" in the same category as "ugly?" Ugly is just a physical descriptor, just like beautiful. Stupid is an intelligence descriptor, just like brilliant.

It's great that you are confident - it really is. But the term fat is rarely, if ever, meant positively. I'm not even a thin person, but I think it's a bit disturbing that you refuse to admit that being fat is a negative in today's society. The moderate health outcomes you reference go along with people who are average weight to slightly above average; ie, people that the general public wouldn't think of as "fat." Being at a healthy weight is better for your life, for your kids' lives, for your professional life, for your love life (see this thread), etc. Denying that fact gets you absolutely nowhere.

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Anonymous wrote:I took my vows as well, and will love my spouse regardless of size. but I find it bizarre that you are supposed to accept and remain attracted, no matter what your spouse's size/weight/self destructive behavior or else you are a terrible person. Both of us know it is a responsibility to keep our marriage strong and healthy--that includes trying to be healthy ourselves and making an effort to be attractive to each other. If my spouse stopped brushing teeth or bathing, am I supposed to accept it no matter what-- otherwise I am a horrible person? or is it reasonable to expect reasonable effort on the part of each spouse to maintain basic standards of weight and hygiene? I'm not talking perfection here--people age, hair thins, metabolism slows, wrinkles appear. But if you support each other in healthy eating and exercise to maintain reasonable size and health, it seems to me that you should.

as for us, we joined a gym together with childcare and try to go a couple times a week together. No negative comments ever made but we make positive comments--you look great, I can tell you've been working out, that shirt looks great on you.

Agree with you, staying in shape and practicing basic hygeine show respect for your partner.

I agree 100%.

Agree. I am a DW and really struggled to lose 40 lbs of baby weight but I work out all the time and generally look pretty good in my 40s. DH on the other hand has gained 40lbs, has an enormous belly, snores now due to the added weight, double chin etc. I don't find him attractive at all. its killing all intimacy between us. And he acts confused as to why I am not into as much anymore. I still love him but too many men complain and they need to look in the mirror.

Men are visual women look for stability and money, it's a fact.

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/chemistry/do-women-trade-on-their-looks-to-get-men-with-money/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took my vows as well, and will love my spouse regardless of size. but I find it bizarre that you are supposed to accept and remain attracted, no matter what your spouse's size/weight/self destructive behavior or else you are a terrible person. Both of us know it is a responsibility to keep our marriage strong and healthy--that includes trying to be healthy ourselves and making an effort to be attractive to each other. If my spouse stopped brushing teeth or bathing, am I supposed to accept it no matter what-- otherwise I am a horrible person? or is it reasonable to expect reasonable effort on the part of each spouse to maintain basic standards of weight and hygiene? I'm not talking perfection here--people age, hair thins, metabolism slows, wrinkles appear. But if you support each other in healthy eating and exercise to maintain reasonable size and health, it seems to me that you should.

as for us, we joined a gym together with childcare and try to go a couple times a week together. No negative comments ever made but we make positive comments--you look great, I can tell you've been working out, that shirt looks great on you.

Agree with you, staying in shape and practicing basic hygeine show respect for your partner.

I agree 100%.

Agree. I am a DW and really struggled to lose 40 lbs of baby weight but I work out all the time and generally look pretty good in my 40s. DH on the other hand has gained 40lbs, has an enormous belly, snores now due to the added weight, double chin etc. I don't find him attractive at all. its killing all intimacy between us. And he acts confused as to why I am not into as much anymore. I still love him but too many men complain and they need to look in the mirror.

Anonymous wrote:If PP's wife falls into this category, what he may need to resolve himself to accept is that she can be stronger, healthier, fitter, more energetic, and still stay fat. Can he still love her, respect her, cherish her, and honor her?

Oh, I can and do still love, respect, cherish and honor her...I just can't get a boner for her. I know you'd like to conflate all those things, and for a woman, it's easier to fake being turned on and have sex when you aren't really feeling it. For a man, it's hard to get hard on demand. When I sit up late drinking and smoke a cigar, she is pretty repulsed by the way I smell...I guess if she loved, respected, honored and cherished me, my scotch and cigar breath wouldn't bother her.

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Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating discussion.

I agree with those who say that fat is really just an adjective - not really any different than calling someone bald, short, or many other negative characteristics.

I also think that getting really fat after marriage threatens that marriage. Weight is something that almost everyone can control, with a few rare medical exceptions. It is time for people to take responsibility for their bodies and not just call their partners shallow for no longer being attracted to them.

And so it's the fact that you think it is so easily controlled that means it's okay to quit being attracted to them and possibly leave the marriage?

I'm just asking because something like cancer or MS or bipolar disorder can also make spouses less attractive. Is it shallow or okay, do you think, for people in those situations to no longer want to be with their spouses? Is the idea here that I'm allowed to reject my husband for something he can control but not allowed to reject him for something he can't control? That doesn't sound like the vows I took.

"Quit" being attracted implies that it is a choice. If my wife gains fifty pounds and I can't even find the naughty parts I'm looking for under those big folds of fat, how can anyone blame me for that? Attraction isn't something you can just will yourself to have.

For almost everyone, getting fat is a choice - not in the same category at all as the other conditions you mention.

It's sad you are so willing to believe that gaining weight is a choice but rejecting your spouse isn't.

If I intentionally changed my looks to be off-putting to my spouse - say, shaved my head - would I be allowed to complain if my spouse didn't feel attracted to me in the same way?

If you married a person when you were normal weight then let yourself - through your own actions - become fat, you have changed your looks in a way that is likely a turnoff to your spouse. Whether your spouse is honest with you or not about it, it is likely the truth. I am not talking about the 5-10 pounds that most people gain as they age, I am talking about really letting yourself go.

Again, you are just treating it as gospel that a person gaining weight is doing so by choice. That isn't so.

I took my vows seriously, my spouse may change how much they weigh or how they look but they will always be the wonderful, kind, loving person I fell in love with. You, however, will probably be a d-bag forever.

Stating basic facts about men - that they are visual creatures who were sexually attracted to your looks when they married you, and would love for you to retain a little o that sex appeal - doesnt make me a douchebag. It does make me wonder how fat you are and whether you are happy the way you are.

Thanks for confirming my initial impression of you. I'm incredibly happy with my weight and I look fantastic. My spouse is overweight and I can't stand the nasty shit I read about how a spouse is betraying the marriage by gaining weight. I'm not betrayed, I'm not going anywhere, and I made a lifelong commitment to a person, not to a jean size. What, exactly, falls outside "for worse" to you, anything more than mildly annoying like buying the wrong kind of bread?

Anonymous wrote:This is a fascinating discussion.

I agree with those who say that fat is really just an adjective - not really any different than calling someone bald, short, or many other negative characteristics.

I also think that getting really fat after marriage threatens that marriage. Weight is something that almost everyone can control, with a few rare medical exceptions. It is time for people to take responsibility for their bodies and not just call their partners shallow for no longer being attracted to them.

Actually, study after study has shown that once you have become fat (I'm talking fat, not just a few pounds over ideal weight), it is almost impossible[u] for the vast majority of people to lose weight and keep it off over time. Losing the weight is not that hard, but keeping it off is. Here's just one quick article on this phenomenon:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=0

There are always a few outliers in each study who are able to lose substantial amounts of weight and keep it off...interviews and studies of these people show that, essentially, maintaining their weight has to become and stay their top priority for the rest of their lives. They have to exercise substantially more and eat substantially less than people who were never fat, even though they are not currently fat and haven't been so for years.

I don't know how long OP has been fat or how substantially fat she is, but for many people who have been obese for years, it is VERY possible to become healthier -- more fit, stronger, more flexible, and with good "numbers" for blood sugar, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. But even with substantial lifestyle changes that result in better health, they may not lose the weight and keep it off. Their body shape may remain larger, but that doesn't mean that they can't be healthier.

If PP's wife falls into this category, what he may need to resolve himself to accept is that she can be stronger, healthier, fitter, more energetic, and still stay fat. Can he still love her, respect her, cherish her, and honor her?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I took my vows as well, and will love my spouse regardless of size. but I find it bizarre that you are supposed to accept and remain attracted, no matter what your spouse's size/weight/self destructive behavior or else you are a terrible person. Both of us know it is a responsibility to keep our marriage strong and healthy--that includes trying to be healthy ourselves and making an effort to be attractive to each other. If my spouse stopped brushing teeth or bathing, am I supposed to accept it no matter what-- otherwise I am a horrible person? or is it reasonable to expect reasonable effort on the part of each spouse to maintain basic standards of weight and hygiene? I'm not talking perfection here--people age, hair thins, metabolism slows, wrinkles appear. But if you support each other in healthy eating and exercise to maintain reasonable size and health, it seems to me that you should.

as for us, we joined a gym together with childcare and try to go a couple times a week together. No negative comments ever made but we make positive comments--you look great, I can tell you've been working out, that shirt looks great on you.

Agree with you, staying in shape and practicing basic hygeine show respect for your partner.

I agree 100%.