Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 22:42     Subject: Marital rape?
OP here, haven't had a chance to look at this thread since yesterday and wow. The discourse is surprising and interesting. I spoke with a therapist today who was very helpful. Thanks to those who have shared helpful contributions. I will catch up on reading now.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 21:32     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If someone marries me, I presume they like having sex with me. If they say no, obviously I will stop. But if they say nothing at all and don't push me away then I assume it's okay.

It's ridiculous that suggesting that someone speaks up and let's their thoughts known is victim blaming. Some people just want to be victims, I guess, without putting in any work to change the world around them.


Exactly this! Unless I specifically say "no" in my marriage, it means yes.


That's kind of fucked up. Unless you're just saying you're normally game for it.


Um, yea. Why wouldn't I normally be up for it? Isn't that the point of being married and sharing an intimate life as opposed to having to start from square one and getting explicit consent every time? No always means no, but silence means different things depending on the context. Of course so many of you are in sexless marriages and otherwise screwed up situations...
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 20:16     Subject: Re:Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did it occur to the wife that the husband can tell she's awake and therefore thought she was consenting (by lying there and not indicating in any way that she wanted him to stop)? Look, all relationships are different. Perhaps that's what sex is like between them. He could have been perfectly reasonable thinking she was consenting when, in fact, she was lying there in fear. A tragic case of miscommunication? And then the next day she comes at him with a rape accusation and he responds badly to it because, to him, it came out of nowhere? I'm not saying I know what happened. I'm just saying that this is a complex situation and who knows what each of these folks are actually thinking/feeling. Just like her actions are not indicative of what she was actually thinking. They need a therapist. STAT. Not a police officer. (At least not yet.) She needs to communicate, with the help of a therapist, how she feels about this behavior. A therapist can help her husband understand what she is saying and also help him understand how an abusive past might continue to impact his wife's current thoughts/feelings. And a therapist can help him explain to his wife what he was thinking/feeling and why he was doing what he was doing. This situation, on both sides, is pretty serious and deserves more time and conversation than what they've put into it.

Calling an abuse hotline in what should be done after they've really talked this out AND he pulls it again.


If you read the OP's posts, you will learn that at least per the OP's perspective, this is not "what sex is like between them." I agree they need a therapist, but his actions and reactions are really troubling.


OP is a 3rd party and probably doesn't know herself what sex is like between them.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 20:16     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If someone marries me, I presume they like having sex with me. If they say no, obviously I will stop. But if they say nothing at all and don't push me away then I assume it's okay.

It's ridiculous that suggesting that someone speaks up and let's their thoughts known is victim blaming. Some people just want to be victims, I guess, without putting in any work to change the world around them.


Exactly this! Unless I specifically say "no" in my marriage, it means yes.


That's kind of fucked up. Unless you're just saying you're normally game for it.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 20:10     Subject: Marital rape?
I agree that what the DH here is creepy and weird.

But I don't see why one wants to get all legal here. I have woken my DH up with a blow job. If he was asleep on the metro and someone woke him up with a blow job it would be assault.

I think the key thing is to try to understand what was going on through her DH's head...was he trying to start sex or was he taking advantage of her being asleep to just basically use her body. But if this is real, this friend totally needs counseling to understand why she "froze" and why her husband is reacting so defensively!
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 20:00     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If someone marries me, I presume they like having sex with me. If they say no, obviously I will stop. But if they say nothing at all and don't push me away then I assume it's okay.

It's ridiculous that suggesting that someone speaks up and let's their thoughts known is victim blaming. Some people just want to be victims, I guess, without putting in any work to change the world around them.


Exactly this! Unless I specifically say "no" in my marriage, it means yes.


The law of the land disagrees with both of you. Thank god!

OP, now you know why your friend's husband was confused and offended.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 19:11     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:If someone marries me, I presume they like having sex with me. If they say no, obviously I will stop. But if they say nothing at all and don't push me away then I assume it's okay.

It's ridiculous that suggesting that someone speaks up and let's their thoughts known is victim blaming. Some people just want to be victims, I guess, without putting in any work to change the world around them.


Exactly this! Unless I specifically say "no" in my marriage, it means yes.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 19:04     Subject: Marital rape?
I guess I'm bizarre in that I find most of the responses in this thread bizarre. If I didn't want to make my husband happy with sex, I wouldn't have married. I would have stayed single. The only times I say no is when I am sick. I really don't understand why you would marry and then not want to make your husband happy.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 18:44     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I actually feel ill reading this, realizing how many people out there don't feel this is rape.

Friend is frozen because that's a normal reaction to being violated - it's a flight reaction when you can't (or feel you can't) physically flee. She's fleeing emotionally and detaching her body from her emotional centre.

Please have her call the hotline. This is not okay.

On another note, I find it creepy that a man would even want sex with a sleeping /unresponsive woman. Says a lot, IMHO, about their general feelings about women.


Ok now come on, there is nothing strange or creepy about a man waking up horny and wanting sex. It sounded like he was trying to turn her on. I mean she isn't sleeping with her brother, she's sleeping with her husband. The only strange and unsettling thing in this situation is that the wife didn't say she wasn't into it when it was happening which is misleading on her part. To have sex at night or in the morning it usually take one spouse waking the other up to do it. If I woke up to my DH touching me in an intimate way I would respond with love not fear. Or I would just TELL him I was tired and to stop. The husband is probably very upset because he would never try to rape his wife and doesn't understand why she wouldn't say anything if she wasn't into it. If she was so frozen in fear that she couldn't say anything when the man she chose to marry and sleep with came onto her sexually in their bed, then they are clearly not a good match and should separate.


So when you're awake, your husband immediately jumps to digital penetration? No gentle stroking, no lead in? No kind words, no warm up befo re you "let him in?

He's not letting her wake up. He's jumping in with all fingers before she has a chance to wake up or consent.. That's the problem.



I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how this could play out. Does she sleep naked? If she was completely not turned on and was wearing pants and panties then it would be a little difficult for him to start fingering her without her waking up. Maybe he thought she was enjoying it because she was wet? If he really did start jerking off and then just shoved his fingers inside her then yes that probably isn't right. However, it's not like he's a stranger, she should have been comfortable enough to say something to her husband.

Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 17:59     Subject: Marital rape?
Digital rape if my time , troll
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 17:58     Subject: Marital rape?
If someone marries me, I presume they like having sex with me. If they say no, obviously I will stop. But if they say nothing at all and don't push me away then I assume it's okay.

It's ridiculous that suggesting that someone speaks up and let's their thoughts known is victim blaming. Some people just want to be victims, I guess, without putting in any work to change the world around them.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 17:38     Subject: Re:Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Not rape.


It absolutely is. People are not allowed to sexually fondle, penetrate, etc someone else while that person is sleeping and not giving consent.


NP here. So if I wake my husband up with a bj, I've raped him?
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 15:59     Subject: Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:What's digital penetration?


Yes, I want to know too. This is one term I have never heard of.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 14:10     Subject: Re:Marital rape?
Anonymous wrote:Did it occur to the wife that the husband can tell she's awake and therefore thought she was consenting (by lying there and not indicating in any way that she wanted him to stop)? Look, all relationships are different. Perhaps that's what sex is like between them. He could have been perfectly reasonable thinking she was consenting when, in fact, she was lying there in fear. A tragic case of miscommunication? And then the next day she comes at him with a rape accusation and he responds badly to it because, to him, it came out of nowhere? I'm not saying I know what happened. I'm just saying that this is a complex situation and who knows what each of these folks are actually thinking/feeling. Just like her actions are not indicative of what she was actually thinking. They need a therapist. STAT. Not a police officer. (At least not yet.) She needs to communicate, with the help of a therapist, how she feels about this behavior. A therapist can help her husband understand what she is saying and also help him understand how an abusive past might continue to impact his wife's current thoughts/feelings. And a therapist can help him explain to his wife what he was thinking/feeling and why he was doing what he was doing. This situation, on both sides, is pretty serious and deserves more time and conversation than what they've put into it.

Calling an abuse hotline in what should be done after they've really talked this out AND he pulls it again.


If you read the OP's posts, you will learn that at least per the OP's perspective, this is not "what sex is like between them." I agree they need a therapist, but his actions and reactions are really troubling.
Anonymous
Post 11/16/2015 14:08     Subject: Re:Marital rape?
Did it occur to the wife that the husband can tell she's awake and therefore thought she was consenting (by lying there and not indicating in any way that she wanted him to stop)? Look, all relationships are different. Perhaps that's what sex is like between them. He could have been perfectly reasonable thinking she was consenting when, in fact, she was lying there in fear. A tragic case of miscommunication? And then the next day she comes at him with a rape accusation and he responds badly to it because, to him, it came out of nowhere? I'm not saying I know what happened. I'm just saying that this is a complex situation and who knows what each of these folks are actually thinking/feeling. Just like her actions are not indicative of what she was actually thinking. They need a therapist. STAT. Not a police officer. (At least not yet.) She needs to communicate, with the help of a therapist, how she feels about this behavior. A therapist can help her husband understand what she is saying and also help him understand how an abusive past might continue to impact his wife's current thoughts/feelings. And a therapist can help him explain to his wife what he was thinking/feeling and why he was doing what he was doing. This situation, on both sides, is pretty serious and deserves more time and conversation than what they've put into it.

Calling an abuse hotline in what should be done after they've really talked this out AND he pulls it again.