Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:56
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.[/.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
Right. But this results in fewer educated and successful women having children. the ultra wealthy and those living off the government carry on as normal.
You also are speaking about having a child as though it's the same as buying a new car. Having a child is very similar to growing old. It's a part of life. If you don't support maternity leave it makes no sense to support retirement. After all, others are paying for your retirement (401k match isn't a result of employee performance, social security, Medicare, etc).
it is in no way accurate to compare breeding to aging. Many people are now opting out. 40% of the population won't have kids for different reasons. They shouldn't have to pay for your poor choices and lack of planning.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:54
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
PSA Canada does not pay 100% of your income for the year that you're off. I think it's like 60%. So it's still a sacrifice. Not everyone does it.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:53
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:NP here. This is a tragic story, and as the mother of an infant, I feel incredible sorrow for this woman's situation. Having said that, I know that people go on about how other countries have paid maternity leave and how can the US be so far behind...well, the fact of the matter is that if you pay for women to have babies, they'll have more babies. If women are more expensive to employ, people will employ fewer women. Wages for women (All women, not just those with babies) will be driven downward because of discrimination. If you owned a business, would you be more likely to hire someone who gets paid benefits and leaves the office for a YEAR? Or someone statistically less likely to do so?
Look at the countries with the most generous maternity benefits. Those are the countries with the largest wage gap between men and women.
Not true. Europe generally has very generous maternity leave policies but more working moms and fewer children on average per woman.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:52
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
Right. But this results in fewer educated and successful women having children. the ultra wealthy and those living off the government carry on as normal.
You also are speaking about having a child as though it's the same as buying a new car. Having a child is very similar to growing old. It's a part of life. If you don't support maternity leave it makes no sense to support retirement. After all, others are paying for your retirement (401k match isn't a result of employee performance, social security, Medicare, etc).
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:51
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
As a taxpayer YES. I rather my taxes go to something useful like parental leave, rather than funding a lot of the other crap we fund. Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent in other countries for aid, wars, etc. Why can't we just direct some of that money back here.
Right on. I'd rather the billions we spend subsidizing plutocrats in the oil industry go to paid maternity leave for all moms.
Or the billions we spend subsidizing Walmart with corporate welfare. Or the billions we dumped on the banking industry post 2008. Or the trillions we spent on war in the middle east that just destabilized the region and created ISIL.
If I got to choose? Our tax dollars would go to domestic programs here like subsidized daycare, etc. Since I don't and I realistically acknowledge that government will NEVER stop prioritizing the military industrial complex and subsidies to big busines? I will continue to vote for politicians who think it is unnecessary. Because they won't cut back on other things to make it possible. They'll just raise taxes more and more.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:48
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:She says right in the article that she's not making much, so she does not "need" the paycheck. She needs the insurance because the other parent works freelance and does not have insurance. The other parent could get a regular job, but obviously prefers freelancing. That's fine, but it is a choice.
She is blaming "the system", that's my issue. "The system" did not force her to go back to work.
No one "needs" to live in an expensive area, or "needs" to drive a nicer car. They choose to, and make the sacrifices in order to do so. That's fine, but don't act like you are forced to do it.
+1
I'm sorry this happened but unless tons of babies are dying every day in daycare because childcare providers don't put them down to sleep on their backs, this isn't a daycare issue. Any time a tragedy happens, the victims are going to suffer from the "shoulda, woulda, couldas." That's only natural.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:37
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
"Her child died not because she went back to work, but first, because of a fluke thing (SIDs etc) and then second, if there is a reason (which there may not be) because the child was in an unlicensed center where possible the child was placed on its stomach, but as a matter of fact (from the essay) the workers did not know how to perform CPR/possibly recognize distress signs et cetera. I don't blame the parents for choosing an unlicensed center because the fact is there are too few available quality childcare options. And to me, that is the issue. "
+1
Totally agree that we should have paid leave perhaps up to a cap of two kids. But this story seemed to focus on the wrong point.
+1
Totally agree that we should have paid leave perhaps up to a cap of two kids. But this story seemed to focus on the wrong point.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:33
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
As a taxpayer YES. I rather my taxes go to something useful like parental leave, rather than funding a lot of the other crap we fund. Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent in other countries for aid, wars, etc. Why can't we just direct some of that money back here.
Right on. I'd rather the billions we spend subsidizing plutocrats in the oil industry go to paid maternity leave for all moms.
Or the billions we spend subsidizing Walmart with corporate welfare. Or the billions we dumped on the banking industry post 2008. Or the trillions we spent on war in the middle east that just destabilized the region and created ISIL.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 15:26
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
As a taxpayer YES. I rather my taxes go to something useful like parental leave, rather than funding a lot of the other crap we fund. Billions of taxpayer dollars are spent in other countries for aid, wars, etc. Why can't we just direct some of that money back here.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:55
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it's a horrible thing that happened. That being said, she made the choice, no one forced her. If she wanted a year off, take the year off and all of the sacrifices and consequences that come with it. She chose not to, you can't blame "the system" because you are not willing to do whatever it takes. Yes, she kept her job for the insurance, but only because the other parent did freelance work. One of the solutions would be have that parent get a job with insurance, etc.
Victim blaming much? How many women do you really think can take a whole year off work (which, BTW, most women would be fired for -- you only get 12 weeks protected leave WITHOUT PAY with FMLA -- so it would effectively be leaving their job permanently)?
You sound like you're trying to blame the mom so you don't have to face the possibility this could happen to any mom, even one who really, REALLY loved her baby and made a ton of sacrifices.
You can't claim she made a choice when it's not a choice for most people. It's a necessity for most Americans to have two working parents. Get off your privileged high horse and GTFO.
It is a choice. Having a child is a choice. If you want a year off when you have a child, it's your responsibility (not the government's) to make that work. If you want to stay home, but can't afford to, then don't have a baby. Don't expect the government to fund your dream for you.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:54
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
So many of you are such assholes. Yes, it was her choice. But her choices were pretty constrained by a society that doesn't think that paid parental leave is important.
How many of you would think it was no big deal to lose your health insurance and jeopardize your ability to re-enter the workforce? How many of you judge women on public assistance?
Many, many, many, many women and families in this country are forced to go back to work at three months, or six weeks, or even sooner, or else lose their jobs. This is not about one woman's choice. This is about our society, which constantly pays lip service to the importance of the family but doesn't care enough about actual families to do anything to help them.
How many of you would think it was no big deal to lose your health insurance and jeopardize your ability to re-enter the workforce? How many of you judge women on public assistance?
Many, many, many, many women and families in this country are forced to go back to work at three months, or six weeks, or even sooner, or else lose their jobs. This is not about one woman's choice. This is about our society, which constantly pays lip service to the importance of the family but doesn't care enough about actual families to do anything to help them.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:48
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:It's not relevant where I live or what I drive. I'm not the one saying I had "no other choice". That is my entire issue. This line right here
What this article is about is that my infant died in the care of a stranger, when he should have been with me. Our culture demanded it.
How does "our culture demand it"? Does it demand she live in NYC? Does it demand the spouse work freelance? Is that a demand that "our culture" puts on everyone? No, it's choices they made, not anything they were forced into. She even says had she known the outcome, she would have made a different choice.
That's all I am saying. I am not saying she deserves it, that she should have made a different choice, that she somehow caused it. I am just saying that our culture does not force mothers to leave their kids with strangers. There are a lot of people that make it work on one income.
A large percentage of mothers now work though because it's very hard to survive on one income. Sure some can make it work, but everyone's financial situation isn't the same in life. You never know when you might find your ownself in a bad financial situation, especially if you are dependent on your husband's income and he decides to up and leave you, dies, or even loses his own job.
And if you live somewhere cheaper, it is very relevant. The reality is much harder to get jobs in little po dunk areas than it is in major cities like DC.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:43
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's not relevant where I live or what I drive. I'm not the one saying I had "no other choice". That is my entire issue. This line right here
What this article is about is that my infant died in the care of a stranger, when he should have been with me. Our culture demanded it.
How does "our culture demand it"? Does it demand she live in NYC? Does it demand the spouse work freelance? Is that a demand that "our culture" puts on everyone? No, it's choices they made, not anything they were forced into. She even says had she known the outcome, she would have made a different choice.
That's all I am saying. I am not saying she deserves it, that she should have made a different choice, that she somehow caused it. I am just saying that our culture does not force mothers to leave their kids with strangers. There are a lot of people that make it work on one income.
Do you?
Yes I do. So do most people I know.
I'm guessing that income is your husband's? Do you REALIZE how naive and sheltered you sound?
You assumed that I am a Woman, Do you REALIZE how stupid you look now?
You're not? Why don't you answer a question instead of playing ridiculously coy. Doesn't matter where you live or what you drive ... etc. Doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. The implication that anyone can choose to live on one income - and if they don't, that they're somehow responsible for the subpar childcare they're forced - yes forced - to use is disgusting.
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:40
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's not relevant where I live or what I drive. I'm not the one saying I had "no other choice". That is my entire issue. This line right here
What this article is about is that my infant died in the care of a stranger, when he should have been with me. Our culture demanded it.
How does "our culture demand it"? Does it demand she live in NYC? Does it demand the spouse work freelance? Is that a demand that "our culture" puts on everyone? No, it's choices they made, not anything they were forced into. She even says had she known the outcome, she would have made a different choice.
That's all I am saying. I am not saying she deserves it, that she should have made a different choice, that she somehow caused it. I am just saying that our culture does not force mothers to leave their kids with strangers. There are a lot of people that make it work on one income.
Do you?
Yes I do. So do most people I know.
I'm guessing that income is your husband's? Do you REALIZE how naive and sheltered you sound?
You assumed that I am a Woman, Do you REALIZE how stupid you look now?
Anonymous
11/16/2015 14:28
Subject: NYT article about baby who died first day of daycare
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It's not relevant where I live or what I drive. I'm not the one saying I had "no other choice". That is my entire issue. This line right here
What this article is about is that my infant died in the care of a stranger, when he should have been with me. Our culture demanded it.
How does "our culture demand it"? Does it demand she live in NYC? Does it demand the spouse work freelance? Is that a demand that "our culture" puts on everyone? No, it's choices they made, not anything they were forced into. She even says had she known the outcome, she would have made a different choice.
That's all I am saying. I am not saying she deserves it, that she should have made a different choice, that she somehow caused it. I am just saying that our culture does not force mothers to leave their kids with strangers. There are a lot of people that make it work on one income.
Do you?
Yes I do. So do most people I know.
I'm guessing that income is your husband's? Do you REALIZE how naive and sheltered you sound?