Honestly, I don't know if my 4 year old can count to 20. Frankly, I don't care exactly — I like to play with numbers more than memorize with my kids.

If your kid can count to 10, you could jump ahead and team him groups of 10 to get started basic concepts of multiplication; or work on what numbers add up to 10. I love counting bears personally.

Or work on writing numbers. 11, 12, 13, 14 are weird works to say; that doesn't mean your child can't start to recognize and write them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nets 13,14, 15 are hard to pronounce and usual stopping point in counting.

OP here. 4yo has trouble with 11-14. He knows up to 10.

I feel better this morning. DH is traveling this week so I feel extra stressed out. I quit my job when I realized my older child was struggling. I am devoted to my children and have not cared for anything else in my life more. I put a lot of pressure on myself. I know my kids will not necessarily be the same as us academically. It is still upsetting that my older child is in the lowest reading group at school and my younger child is the only one in his preschool class who cannot count to 20.

OP, hugs to you. It's hard to realize that your children aren't mini-mes, but rather their own people with their own abilities and personalities.

My oldest is in 2nd grade and is perfectly average in her academic abilities. Her reading and math abilities are on grade level and not a step higher. DH and I were disappointed to hear that, but you know what? Her teacher said her emotional maturity was well beyond her years and that DD might be the most empathetic and compassionate child she's ever taught. I bet your child also has gifts that extend well beyond the academic arena.

Btw, I have a kindergartener who's scarily intelligent. He's also a bit of schmuck and does not have nearly the same empathy and compassion his sister does. If I had to choose between being an academic superstar and being a kind person for my children, I would choose kindness any day of the week, hands down.

Your kids (and mine) are still so young. Kids move at their own pace- you'll see. Good luck!

OP, it may comfort you-- as it oft comforts me-- to look at yourself as an example. You may be a smart person with a stellar education, but just look at what's become of you. And I say this fondly, because I say it to myself, and I have good self-esteem. MUCH better to raise kids who are laid-back, emotionally stable, unfazed by life's challenges, and accustomed to having to work hard to achieve their goals.

Figure out what you love and enjoy about your kids, what they love and enjoy about life, and do that. We're not gonna be around forever, and there's more to life than counting to 20. However, if you want to focus on math skills, does your 4 yr old get 1:1 correspondence? Can he point to three things and count 1-2-3? Find something he CAN do if it makes you feel better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

I wish I was a troll and not this upset. On most days, I tell myself that this isn't a race. I want to raise happy well adjusted children. My older child is in 1st grade and just learning to read. My younger 4yo can't count to 20. This is not a humblebrag post. I am truly disappointed in myself. I have no one to talk to. DH is on a plane right now. I am just feeling sorry for myself.

I know I should be grateful that I have two healthy children. Several of my gfs are suffering from infertility or never married or divorced. They are pushing 40 and having a baby seems to be priority #1 for them.

I know this is a DCUM cliche, but find yourself a good therapist.

First off, you need and deserve having someone to talk to. Everyone needs an outlet for their worries -- no matter how "ridiculous" or "silly" -- as well as support for dealing with them in a healthy way. If your friends and DH can't meet that need for you, it's fine. Sometimes it's actually better to work these things out with someone outside your daily life anyway. That's what good therapists are for.

Here's the other reason you should talk with a therapist. I know you know this, but your kids will never fit your preconceived notions of who or how they should be. Not now, not ever. It's just not possible for one (let alone two) people to read your most subtle and unarticulated desires and then live up to them. So unless you get some help with letting go of that way of thinking, it's only going to get worse for you as the kids get older. It's also going to cause your children a world of pain as they grow up. So get professional help and sort yourself out now. You can change this.

Being bothered that your child is not excelling academically seems to be a taboo subject. My closest friends are childless or mothers of infants. If I bring up my parenting frustrations, they say that the kids have DH and me for parents and they are destined to be great. My children have truly humbled me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nets 13,14, 15 are hard to pronounce and usual stopping point in counting.

OP here. 4yo has trouble with 11-14. He knows up to 10.

I feel better this morning. DH is traveling this week so I feel extra stressed out. I quit my job when I realized my older child was struggling. I am devoted to my children and have not cared for anything else in my life more. I put a lot of pressure on myself. I know my kids will not necessarily be the same as us academically. It is still upsetting that my older child is in the lowest reading group at school and my younger child is the only one in his preschool class who cannot count to 20.

OP, if you are going to compete through your children, you are setting up yourself and them for years of misery.

Have you talked to your children's teachers? What do they say?

Anonymous wrote:Nets 13,14, 15 are hard to pronounce and usual stopping point in counting.

OP here. 4yo has trouble with 11-14. He knows up to 10.

I feel better this morning. DH is traveling this week so I feel extra stressed out. I quit my job when I realized my older child was struggling. I am devoted to my children and have not cared for anything else in my life more. I put a lot of pressure on myself. I know my kids will not necessarily be the same as us academically. It is still upsetting that my older child is in the lowest reading group at school and my younger child is the only one in his preschool class who cannot count to 20.

Nets 13,14, 15 are hard to pronounce and usual stopping point in counting.

I call troll. This is just too silly.

Anonymous wrote:you are nuts!!

signed,
a 4 year old teacher

4 year old teachers--who knew they certified them that young...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

I wish I was a troll and not this upset. On most days, I tell myself that this isn't a race. I want to raise happy well adjusted children. My older child is in 1st grade and just learning to read. My younger 4yo can't count to 20. This is not a humblebrag post. I am truly disappointed in myself. I have no one to talk to. DH is on a plane right now. I am just feeling sorry for myself.

I know I should be grateful that I have two healthy children. Several of my gfs are suffering from infertility or never married or divorced. They are pushing 40 and having a baby seems to be priority #1 for them.

I know this is a DCUM cliche, but find yourself a good therapist.

First off, you need and deserve having someone to talk to. Everyone needs an outlet for their worries -- no matter how "ridiculous" or "silly" -- as well as support for dealing with them in a healthy way. If your friends and DH can't meet that need for you, it's fine. Sometimes it's actually better to work these things out with someone outside your daily life anyway. That's what good therapists are for.

Here's the other reason you should talk with a therapist. I know you know this, but your kids will never fit your preconceived notions of who or how they should be. Not now, not ever. It's just not possible for one (let alone two) people to read your most subtle and unarticulated desires and then live up to them. So unless you get some help with letting go of that way of thinking, it's only going to get worse for you as the kids get older. It's also going to cause your children a world of pain as they grow up. So get professional help and sort yourself out now. You can change this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

I wish I was a troll and not this upset. On most days, I tell myself that this isn't a race. I want to raise happy well adjusted children. My older child is in 1st grade and just learning to read. My younger 4yo can't count to 20. This is not a humblebrag post. I am truly disappointed in myself. I have no one to talk to. DH is on a plane right now. I am just feeling sorry for myself.

I know I should be grateful that I have two healthy children. Several of my gfs are suffering from infertility or never married or divorced. They are pushing 40 and having a baby seems to be priority #1 for them.

I get it, OP. Really, I do. One of my kids has an LD and fairly significant anxiety and depression. That has really been challenge and has forced me to re-prioritize. For me the priority is raising happy, healthy, productive adults. My kids will be fine. They will go to college. It may not be Harvard, but that's ok. I'd rather have a healthy kid from a state school than an unstable Harvard grad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with many of the PPs that it is the shift to SAH that is your problem.

Also the fact that you are English speaking.

I kid, but not really. English makes learning to count more difficult because the teens are backwards and illogical - it's why so many children have trouble with it. We teach them to count to ten in a base 10 number system and then we throw eleven and twelve at them? What do those random words even mean? And it's not much better after that - of COURSE a kid is going to thing 'Four Teen' is 41. Kids have it much easier in languages that effectively number these things 'Ten One', 'Ten Two', 'Ten Three', etc. the way it should be. English gets its act together by the twenties, but the damage is done by then.

Read a study that it's a similar problem with kids learning colors. English puts the adjective BEFORE the noun and that makes it much harder to learn because you haven't directed your kid to the object before you name the color. So kids much more readily learn colors if you direct their attention to the object in question before mentioning the color, i.e. if you say 'the ball is read' versus 'the red ball'

PP, you have said this in multiple posts on DCUM, and I think what your posts mostly indicate is that you are not a native English speaker and that your native language does things differently than English does. Unless you have research support for this? There are plenty of languages in the world that don't count ten-one, ten-two, as well as plenty of languages that don't put the word(s) describing the thing after the thing. (I'm half-expecting you to say next that no wonder gender identity isn't fixed in English-speaking children until age 4 or 5, given that the general lack of gender in English grammar.)

What on earth makes you think my native language isn't English? I'd think the idioms and improper grammar would give me away as a native. And not sure I've actually posted this before - that may have been someone else. I am *trying* to learn another language now but I'm not even communicatively competent yet so am still solidly monolingual. I do however think the influence of language on thought processes (and neuroscience in general) is fascinating,

In terms of research to support these ideas I don't carry those around in my memory, but a quick google search for the influence of language on numerical understanding gets you there. This one seemed to cover the basic idea and lists a bunch of supporting research, though I admit I haven't actually read the study - I just perused it quickly after searching for a supporting document for you, though I may go back to read it since it seems interesting: http://math.unipa.it/~grim/21_project/Browning86-89.pdf

As for the colors comment - I just read that recently and would swear it was from following a link someone posted on here (yes I waste way to much time on DCUM.) Though it's possible I also followed a different link that took me down an internet rabbit hole to land here. Regardless I did eventually find the article I read about that - the link is here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-johnny-name-colors/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

I wish I was a troll and not this upset. On most days, I tell myself that this isn't a race. I want to raise happy well adjusted children. My older child is in 1st grade and just learning to read. My younger 4yo can't count to 20. This is not a humblebrag post. I am truly disappointed in myself. I have no one to talk to. DH is on a plane right now. I am just feeling sorry for myself.

I know I should be grateful that I have two healthy children. Several of my gfs are suffering from infertility or never married or divorced. They are pushing 40 and having a baby seems to be priority #1 for them.

OP, I recommend that you go to bed.

(I'm following my own advice now.)

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

I wish I was a troll and not this upset. On most days, I tell myself that this isn't a race. I want to raise happy well adjusted children. My older child is in 1st grade and just learning to read. My younger 4yo can't count to 20. This is not a humblebrag post. I am truly disappointed in myself. I have no one to talk to. DH is on a plane right now. I am just feeling sorry for myself.

I know I should be grateful that I have two healthy children. Several of my gfs are suffering from infertility or never married or divorced. They are pushing 40 and having a baby seems to be priority #1 for them.

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll because someone who is an ivyleaguesmartypants would know that developmentally most children catch up by the 3rd grade and the playing field levels.

Where would an ivyleaguesmartypants learn this? It certainly was not covered in the ivyleaguesmartypants classes I took -- or maybe I was asleep in class that day.