Anonymous
10/19/2015 13:03
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Let me start by saying I have no dog in this fight – I have two kids with April and November birthdays. I just genuinely don't get this redshirting fad (yes, it seems like a fad to me). Why aren't the rules the rules? Why isn't the deadline hard and fast? Someone will be the oldest and youngest - my older kid is the smallest, though not the youngest, in his class - do what? The teachers know how to deal with it, and it's part of school life. I really don't see why this is even allowed.
"Redshirting" is a euphemism for holding back children who are delayed and immature. Parents want to blame curriculum and pretend their child is fine so they call it "redshirting."
If a child is not delayed or significantly immature, parents are simply cheating the system and their children's classmates. Of course, if their children were advanced it would never be a question. Redshirted children are not the top of that class.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:52
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Because there needs to be a rule. Otherwise, maybe we should just send our kids to school whenever we feel like it's appropriate. Forget the age cutoff completely!
Also, it is cyclical. The slightly immature boy with a June birthday will obviously seem more immature if all the July and August boys are waiting until the next year.
Did you even read this thread? There are rules, you just don't like them.
The current "rule" allows basically any parent to redshirt at basically any time. Not much of a rule, is it.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:50
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Because there needs to be a rule. Otherwise, maybe we should just send our kids to school whenever we feel like it's appropriate. Forget the age cutoff completely!
Also, it is cyclical. The slightly immature boy with a June birthday will obviously seem more immature if all the July and August boys are waiting until the next year.
So the only two possible options in the world are:
1. the same one single rule for everybody, no exceptions for anybody under any circumstances for any reasons
2. no rule for anybody
Really?
I've clarified seven times. Of course there should be exceptions in the case of severe special needs - physically, intellectually, emotionally. But there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. You're being deliberately obtuse. Or are you actually arguing that the current system is fair?
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:28
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Because there needs to be a rule. Otherwise, maybe we should just send our kids to school whenever we feel like it's appropriate. Forget the age cutoff completely!
Also, it is cyclical. The slightly immature boy with a June birthday will obviously seem more immature if all the July and August boys are waiting until the next year.
Did you even read this thread? There are rules, you just don't like them.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:23
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Because there needs to be a rule. Otherwise, maybe we should just send our kids to school whenever we feel like it's appropriate. Forget the age cutoff completely!
Also, it is cyclical. The slightly immature boy with a June birthday will obviously seem more immature if all the July and August boys are waiting until the next year.
So the only two possible options in the world are:
1. the same one single rule for everybody, no exceptions for anybody under any circumstances for any reasons
2. no rule for anybody
Really?
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:15
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:My 10 year old third grader is so gifted. She's doing fourth grade advanced math. She is so special.
Yes, except that actually she's a year behind because she belongs in fifth grade.
LOL...yes, I know someone who redshirted and now goes on and on about how advanced her kid is...she even convinced her local swim team to allow him to swim with his school peers (and thus down a level from the other kids his age) and then bragged about what a champion swimmer he was when he won most of his races.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:14
Subject: Re:Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
My son is an August birthday and I did not redshirt him. He's in second grade now, and I really regret it. He is one of the most academically advanced kids in his class, but he really struggles socially. All of his close friends from school (through aftercare and soccer) are a grade below him. Kids in his own class get frustrated with him because he's more prone to cry, and not as good at negotiating social conflict.
Had you redshirrted him, he'd probably be bored because of the lack of intellectual stimulation. You have no idea whether it would have been better.
And neither do you, or anybody else.
Oh, I think it would have been better overall. I was horribly bored in school academically in elementary - there was zero differentiation at the time in my small town. But I enjoyed my friends, scouts etc. and had people to play at recess. Sure, it could be just the particular group of kids, but DS is easily able to socialize with kids in the class behind, but struggles in his own grade.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:06
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Because there needs to be a rule. Otherwise, maybe we should just send our kids to school whenever we feel like it's appropriate. Forget the age cutoff completely!
Also, it is cyclical. The slightly immature boy with a June birthday will obviously seem more immature if all the July and August boys are waiting until the next year.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 12:04
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
So kids should start kindergarten even if they're not ready, and they shouldn't start kindergarten even if they are ready, because...?
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:59
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:My 10 year old third grader is so gifted. She's doing fourth grade advanced math. She is so special.
Yes, except that actually she's a year behind because she belongs in fifth grade.
+ everything
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:57
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:A question for OP -- do you also disagree with kids starting "early" if they have a late birthday, but are otherwise ready?
OP here - yes.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:48
Subject: Re:Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:The reason I dislike the redshirting trend is that it adds to the achievement gap. Low-income parents are never going to just choose to pay for another year of child care to give their kids "the gift of time." So it's even harder for young 5-year-olds from poor homes to compete with affluent 6-year-olds who have had enrichment activities, highly involved parents, etc.
Hmm it's almost like what you're saying is that there should be a year or so of publicly available school *before* formal schooling starts- so that everyone starts on the same page...there must be a German word for that
.
And my serious point to counter your obviously well meaning point is that closing the achievement gap shouldn't amount to keeping the rich kids from achieving their potential. (My problem is with the earlier academics, not the redshirting per se).
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:39
Subject: Re:Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The reason I dislike the redshirting trend is that it adds to the achievement gap. Low-income parents are never going to just choose to pay for another year of child care to give their kids "the gift of time." So it's even harder for young 5-year-olds from poor homes to compete with affluent 6-year-olds who have had enrichment activities, highly involved parents, etc.
But you are assuming here that redshirting actually does give children an advantage.
Maybe the people who are saying "redshirting should be banned because it gives redshirted children an unfair advantage!" are different from the people who are saying "redshirting should be banned because it puts redshirted children at a disadvantage!", because it is certainly not logical to say that redshirted children have an unfair advantage AND AT THE SAME TIME are also at a disadvantage.
Here's a UK report that shows it does matter.
http://www.ifs.org.uk/comms/r80.pdf
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:38
Subject: Re:Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
Anonymous wrote:The reason I dislike the redshirting trend is that it adds to the achievement gap. Low-income parents are never going to just choose to pay for another year of child care to give their kids "the gift of time." So it's even harder for young 5-year-olds from poor homes to compete with affluent 6-year-olds who have had enrichment activities, highly involved parents, etc.
But you are assuming here that redshirting actually does give children an advantage.
Maybe the people who are saying "redshirting should be banned because it gives redshirted children an unfair advantage!" are different from the people who are saying "redshirting should be banned because it puts redshirted children at a disadvantage!", because it is certainly not logical to say that redshirted children have an unfair advantage AND AT THE SAME TIME are also at a disadvantage.
Anonymous
10/19/2015 11:38
Subject: Genuinely don't get why redshirting in K is allowed
OP, you might take a look at the UK which, until recently, did not allow redshirting of any kind. In fact, they would ask for exact birthdays on standardized tests so they could grade the tests accordingly to development/to the month. But the tide is turning there, as well.
Essentially, they are seeing that some kids, particularly those with summer birthdays, may need some time to catch up and that parents know best.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/08/parents-of-summer-born-children-get-right-to-delay-start-of-school
That said, at some point it becomes an arms race of sorts and you also wind up with 18+ month spread in ages in a classroom.
I'm not sure of the solution to it all.
Essentially, they are seeing that some kids, particularly those with summer birthdays, may need some time to catch up and that parents know best.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/sep/08/parents-of-summer-born-children-get-right-to-delay-start-of-school
That said, at some point it becomes an arms race of sorts and you also wind up with 18+ month spread in ages in a classroom.
I'm not sure of the solution to it all.